Interesting read on Lami..

I have been keeping mine off morning grass though, and the article says evening grass should be avoided. :confused:
Any opinions / research on this?
 
Ive also heard that what grass there is in 'starvation paddocks' can contain high levels of fructains due to being stressed. You just cant win:(
 
Fairynuff said:
Ive also heard that what grass there is in 'starvation paddocks' can contain high levels of fructains due to being stressed. You just cant win:(
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Yes I have read that. I think it was something about the whole length pof the grass shaft containing fructans rather than just the tip.
 
ozpoz said:
I have been keeping mine off morning grass though, and the article says evening grass should be avoided. :confused:
Any opinions / research on this?
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My understanding is the carb/sugar levels in grass rise during the day as it is produced. The sugars are then 'used' during the night in temps approximately above 4 degC. So my understanding is safest times are dawn to 10/11 am as the levels are lower then. Of course none of us is going to get up that early but I think morning grazing (in non frosty weather) is safest. So levels rise as the day goes on and then fall as the night goes on.
I think the fructan theory is thought by many to be not as important as once thought but I think NSC (non structual carbohydrate) levels is often a major factor.
 
Maybe I have harsh opinions, and I am willing to admit I may be wrong, but 1) how in the world did that horse get to THAT stage without intervention before, and 2) the poor horse is 22 years old.....he has been in chronic pain for at least 9 months, and is now allowed *1* hours grazing per day....

....If one of my lot was so bad that all 4 pedal bones had rotated and come through their soles, I am afraid I would *have* to PTS....
 
1) how in the world did that horse get to THAT stage without intervention before,

because it can get THAT bad THAT quickly. weak laminae tear much quicker than you can imagine a bit like velcro

and 2) the poor horse is 22 years old.....he has been in chronic pain for at least 9 months, and is now allowed *1* hours grazing per day....

I think 9 mnths was between founder and photo of trim, not the pony was like that for 9 months!

....If one of my lot was so bad that all 4 pedal bones had rotated and come through their soles, I am afraid I would *have* to PTS....

maybe, depends if you had the patience and time but you don't have to, things have moved on in the world and old fashioned thinking needn't be the end. Yes the pony will be uncomfortable but most recover within 6 months.

Moral of the story... don't let it get like that in the first place. Listen to what is going on and make brave changes.
 
Maisy said:
Maybe I have harsh opinions, and I am willing to admit I may be wrong, but 1) how in the world did that horse get to THAT stage without intervention before, and 2) the poor horse is 22 years old.....he has been in chronic pain for at least 9 months, and is now allowed *1* hours grazing per day....

....If one of my lot was so bad that all 4 pedal bones had rotated and come through their soles, I am afraid I would *have* to PTS....
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He wasn't in pain for nine months, it took nine months to grow a complete foot.

He STARTED on one hour grazing and was building up. For all you know he is now out full time. In any case, don't you think he would rather be on a dry lot 24 hours a day with soaked hay than DEAD?
 
cptrayes said:
He wasn't in pain for nine months, it took nine months to grow a complete foot.

He STARTED on one hour grazing and was building up. For all you know he is now out full time. In any case, don't you think he would rather be on a dry lot 24 hours a day with soaked hay than DEAD?
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Quite!
 
Maisy said:
Maybe I have harsh opinions, and I am willing to admit I may be wrong, but 1) how in the world did that horse get to THAT stage without intervention before
It CAN happen that quickly - one of the horses on the yard has just been PTS as the pedal bone had come through the sole and he was only diagnosed 2-3 weeks before. Our girls pedal bones have rotated (although not severely) and when we found that out, she literally was fine one night and leant against the wall the next morning!
and 2) the poor horse is 22 years old.....he has been in chronic pain for at least 9 months, and is now allowed *1* hours grazing per day....
As others has said 9 months was the recovery - Kelly started her recovery about 10 months ago and is still only walking to her little paddock and back.

....If one of my lot was so bad that all 4 pedal bones had rotated and come through their soles, I am afraid I would *have* to PTS....
It depends - Kelly is 17 y/o and the vets weren't sure what they could do for her - but when you walk on that yard and she is throwing her head, shouting to you, with bright eyes and full of spirit its very hard to take that attitude; she was coping on the bute for the pain and to think about PTS was just not an option. As it is, we gave her a chance and did everything we could for her, and it's showing now in her recovery; she's off her bute, dragged us everywhere, destroyed her stable...! Vets and farriers are amazed and it just shows the dedication and how much of a fighter she is!! :)
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Just my opinion though :)

I'm so glad people are actually starting to realise that rotation of the pedal bones isn't a death sentence and it can be rectified with time and patience and if the horse has the right attitude.
K x
 
Very interesting reading. My girl has recovered amazingly considering, she had rotation in one of her fronts and her foot structure and stability has come a very long way and she is currently sound and being ridden :D
 
KellysHeroes said:
Just my opinion though :)

I'm so glad people are actually starting to realise that rotation of the pedal bones isn't a death sentence and it can be rectified with time and patience and if the horse has the right attitude.
K x
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I appreciate what you are saying, but that horse must have been in chronic pain for a fairly long time and will now have to be watched like a hawk to ensure it doesn't get in that condition again....I read so many posts about the quality of life of horses who are stabled 24/7, but is a life kept away from the herd with scraps to eat much better....especially for a horse who is fairly elderly anyway.

I had a dog who had a stroke a couple of years ago, and he had a blood clot at the top of one of his legs. He was put on morphine straight away, as the pain was so bad. The vets said they could try and treat the blood clot, but it would take at least 2 weeks, when he would have to stay in the surgery....they couldnt guarantee he would make a recovery, and even if that clot was treated, he could have another stroke anyway. That dog was as much a part of my life as my kids, but he was nearly 12, and I thought that the kindest thing to do was not to make the rest of his life miserable.....

I am not saying that every laminitis case should be pts, but when things are *that* bad....(I consider the collapsing of all 4 pedal bones to be pretty severe), it might be kinder to end the suffering.....

....Thankfully, I haven't had a horse/pony with laminitis...and perhaps, if I were to have one of mine who had it, I might think differently....
 
My take on the article is that the horse in question was more comfortable after the first trim

"Right after the first trim and padded hooves, Glynn was able to get relief and stand comfortably."
 
Maisy, I think you have misunderstood the whole story on the website and how this much loved pony was saved. I'm not going to change a closed mind but...

The pony had rotation in all four feet, it says it happened overnight. The first trim releived pain as the pedal bone angle had been corrected. Then the hooves were padded. It's like your nail being pulled off your finger because it was too long then someone cut it. You would be more comfortable. Not comparable to a stroke imo.

Have you ever had a pony with lami?

I have one and he does not live in a box 24/7. He lives out 24/7 with a herd, with no shoes on, in the middle of spring because I took them time and spent to money to understand everything about it and manage it like I would a diabetic relative. Not call potters and say "I've got a knacker". I loved him too much to do that. Even when mine had lami in all four feet he recovered with some tlc and brilliant people who knew what they were doing. He now does everything incl jumping 3" +. Still with no shoes on.

I suggest you do some proper reading and not post such comments which may actually hurt some people who try thier very best for horses in any situation.
 
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Well my old girl has severe rotation and her pedal bones have dropped, I'm told. But she's now out 24/7 (v carefully managed) and is as sound aside from, unfortunately, also having ringbone. She's very happy and content with life and I've still got my gorgeous girl to go and have a cuddle with every day. I nearly gave up but am so glad I didn't! She may not be around very much longer as the cushings is bound to catch up with her sometime, but its lovely while it lasts :)
 
I honestly believe that there has been a change in peoples view of laminitis in recent years with the increased availability of information via the internet.

Whether bare foot or not, the work done by Jamie Jackson and Pete Ramey should be essential reading for horse owners.

The majority of laminitis in the UK has to be diet related primarily because of our grass growing climate and the types of grass we grow, topped up by the sugar rich hard feeds from most commercial suppliers.
 
Well, you are right Andy there, but only the surface has been scratched. To get to the "ideal" in those books means changing centuries worth of a way of life (even though way of life has changed since those centuries ago) and it's an uphill battle.

I asked if I could fence a perimeter (paddock p.) in my field which I share with another owner (start small and all that) and even though farmer said do what you like, very traditional owner says no as her pony would starve *sigh*.

If only I had my own patch of land..... *dreams on* :D
 
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tallyho! said:
Well, you are right Andy there, but only the surface has been scratched. To get to the "ideal" in those books means changing centuries worth of a way of life (even though way of life has changed since those centuries ago) and it's an uphill battle.

I asked if I could fence a perimeter (paddock p.) in my field which I share with another owner (start small and all that) and even though farmer said do what you like, very traditional owner says no as her pony would starve *sigh*. Even if I did do it just for mine, he would jump back in with the others as being on his own is scary!

If only I had my own patch of land..... *dreams on* :D
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Why not ask if you can put her pony in the middle, lol.
 
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