Intermittent lameness - hoooves/limb pics

TigerTail

TigerTail

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So its all gone rather pear shaped recently

10th May - v lame FL holding foot out and digging - sound 4 days later (I was away and parents didnt call vet )

24th May - v lame FL Trimmer thought abscess but nothing came of poulticing for 3 days. 95% sound 3 days later, just looking a bit gimpy in trot every now and then. But reluctant to trot under saddle and v hesitant on stones although sound on tarmac. Lurching when setting off from standing and slight headnod when trotted up on tarmac several times.

18th June - vet out - no heat/swellings found - suggest a weeks small paddock rest and reasses. Did this, seemed sound so rode out in walk with a friend, asked to trot 5 strides and was HOPPING lame in trot.


25th June - A different vet who did flexions and lunging - flexions made her hopping lame FR and lunging showed up head nod and lameness getting worse, except she kept swapping which leg she was lame on. 3 weeks rest + bute twice a day for a week, then once for a week then nothing on the 3rd.

Seemed to be much improved, sound in a few strides of trot in her little paddock until

(2days after she went to 1 bute a day)

4th June - stood holding FR on toe, or frantically digging, or holding it off the ground. Lame in walk. 3rd vet did hoof nippers and got big reaction at toe, dug a bit and found a hole..... Its at least an inch and a half deep. Said to get trimmer to dig it out who was coming next day and gave more bute and antibiotics.



























So do we think these little holes are causing the intermittent lameness? Or is that and a limb problem going on given the flexion reaction??

ARGH!
 
Oh good lord, deja vu :( Sounds exactly what happened to my lad last June. By early July, we got vet out to dig, because it had just been going on - on and off - for too long. She got a large abscess to burst, it drained, we poulticed and tubbed, and he came sound.

Come December, same thing, same place. Because it was same foot, we got vet out day 2, she got a lot of pus, the hole went right up the front of the hoof, just to 11o'clock if toe is 12. The hole was big and deep and took ages to heal. It was the main reason I switched balancer and went onto the Forageplus Performance Balancer and then the summer balancer.

Today, I can see the mess it's made of the white line at the toe - there is a big load of weird stuff that's been wearing out gradually. I think it will be gone in a week or two, but clearly if it's taken 6/7 months to get to ground level, it was very high up the hoof.

And my lad's hooves look very similar to your horse's, even down to the position of the quarter crack on the same hoof - but it was this (the FL) that we had the abscess. And he'd had ongoing central sulcus thrush for the previous several years that nothing even touched.

Fingers crossed and touching wood obsessively here, the hooves now look lovely, are performing well and the thrush is gone, so for us, it seems to have been a mineral issue. I got the grass tested and we're very deficient in zinc among other things, which is linked to abscesses and cracks.

Sorry I can't offer anything more definite - the flexion tests would confuse me, although everything else you describe sounds like the abscess we had.
 
It does sound like abscesses. Looks like some dietary components as well, the ripples dip at the heels on the last front shot, so possibly tighten sugar/grass intake.
The soles look like they are trying to exfoliate and on my pc some of the frogs looks a bit black which also often has a dietary link.

Sorry, not much help I expect but lameness isn't something I know much about in general. Have you a pea gravel area?
 
This all sounds, and looks, familiar.

Long story shortened - My lad had an intermittant lameness after a mild attack of LGL. He had white line seperation and just wasnt right, he ended up hopping lame but it didnt look like an abcess, I buted, all ok so stopped buting, lame again. This went on for weeks. Then someone told me bute can prevent an abcess draining so I stopped the bute, tubbed and poulticed and within a couple of days a massive abcess burst and came out. He's been fine ever since.

If you think its abcess related I would stop all bute, tub in epsom salts and poultice.
 
ps. I see the cracks are starting to grow out and I wonder if this is a phase (for want of a better word) before healthier hooves grow down? I would still look closer at diet myself. I would also keep to work she can cope with happily. It may not be something that can be fixed over night, if you see what I mean but a case of getting through this and supporting her with tweaks to management,work and diet. On the other hand it may be something entirely different. :)

Agree about the bute as well.
 
I agree it definitely looks like you have some dietary issues rumbling on, and the lameness does present like abcesses... Except for the flexions. It is possible that the flexions were a bit of a red herring - any horse will go lame if they're flexed hard enough, and perhaps she had tweaked herself or was sore from compensation.

Have you changed her diet at all in the last month or so? It looks like the new growth is tighter than that below it.
 
Yes she's been back on the balanced minerals for the last month - she started refusing to eat them about 3 months back in Fast Fibre, seems theyve changed it so it now tastes like crap as all she would do is sniff it then kick the bucket over :rolleyes:

Whats weird is that while it def presents as an abscess there has been no pus or smell out of the hole despite tubbing etc. Its just a hole :confused:

Shes now off the bute. Will see how she is early next week before getting vet again. Boots on order as well so I can get her out.
 
To me it looks like she has a nutritional issue. Without knowing her diet, I can only guess, but from my experience she seems to need a ration balancer. Is she a thoroughbred on wet grass? Those walls are thin and weak and her soles are flat. You can see the inch or so of growth coming from the coronary band.... this is the tight shape you want all the way down the hoof. For the time being I'd bed she'd LOVE some shoes to protect those poor tender feet. Her heals seem kinda low as well (and they'd may be kinda sore) and the toe is spreading out front which causes more torsion which is forcing the toe to spread forward even more. The quarters are also spreading for lack of strength and balance. I'd put her on a ration balancer for sure. Talk to your feed supplier (I don't know the brands well enough in England). Here in Ontario, Canada I would recommend Blue Seal brand's Sunshine Plus. No grain needed while using a ration balancer.

Also, Keratex makes great products for toughening up hooves. Try to keep them dry - don't bath her so much if you do, and get her on dry soft ground until the hooves grow down tight from the coronary band and don't spread out under her load. Every month her hooves will grow down smoother and stronger. In eight months you'll see a nice strong hoof with no cracks and a tighter, stronger hoof. Shoes set back a bit to support the heals and provide a faster break over and reset every 5 weeks as her hoof grows out. Do not delay resets as the toe's torsion will otherwise continue to force the hoof out front where you don't want it to go. Put the shoe as close to under the boney column as you can until the hood grows down where it should be.

My YouTube channel has excellent playlists on "hoof and shoeing study". It's called Remedyfarm.

Hope this helps and good luck!
 
Not sure how shoes are going to help :rolleyes:

TT, sounds like your diet issue may be resolved & its just a matter of waiting for the new growth to grow down.

Iiwy, I'd be tempted to get an x-ray of that foot, just to check there's nothing sinister about that hole.
 
Um, well heres why. Shoes will protect the sole from bruising caused by rocks or hard spots. Properly sized, balanced and applied, they'll hold the foot together and prevent the current cracks from traveling further up the hoof wall and therefore taking even longer to resolve. Until those feet grow down, shoes can therefore protect those flat, and obviously tender feet from further trauma and pain and allow you to properly exercise the horse which is also important for good feet and health. I'd worry about getting deeper soles only after I had good walls grown down. This advice from my forty years of experience with a special interest in feet.
 
One thing I have learned is you do not need shoes (or filler etc.) to hold cracks together. Imho it is a total misnomer and no reason to apply shoes. Shoes do appear to reduce hoof mechanism so relieve pain but that is palliative, not addressing the fundamental problems. Fine, but it may come back to haunt you in the future.

Cracks have to be grown out so attention to diet, trim in some cases and movement as the horse can tolerate. Anti fungal lotions and potions may be needed until good hoof grows down. Shoes protect the bearing surface of the wall so reduce stimulation which promotes growth and shoeing doesn't allow trimming for balance the individual horse may need.
 
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Shoes will only lift the sole a very short way off the ground, they won't protect the sole, it will still be vulnerable to any stones which are larger than the height of the shoe. Further more, a shod will force the hoof to peripheral load - ie bear all the weight on the hoof walls. If the hoof walls are cracking barefoot, what makes you think they're strong enough to carry the entire weight of the horse?
 
Like others have said, an abscess is still possible.

CM had a similar episode of on/off lameness and was about to be whisked off for x-rays when two mahoosive abscesses burst. The Vet and Farrier had been unable to find them with hoof testers. Like your mare, she had flare/stretched white line and then a much tighter section of hoof under the coronet band. The abscesses had been moving sideways around the hoof.

I really hope that you get to the bottom of this and that she's sound again soon.
 
Ride and Drive im not sure where you got the 'tender' feet from as she was stomping out on tarmac and gravel just fine......

Nor would I be banging nails into inflamed laminae thankyou very much - or for that matter any farrier as this mare would take your head off for trying :)

The sand cracks on the outer walls dont worry me, im on pure sandy soil so its a given, rather like mud fever and clay etc however its the deep ones tracking back into th hoof causing problems + the dietary issues.

Its the prolonged, but intermittent, abscess like symptoms but nothing blowing despite soaking and poulticing that has me v concerned. Plus the massive reaction to a flexion. All very convoluted.
 
OK. I give up. I see we have a few young "barefoot only" girls here. We'll see what you've learned in a decade or two. Best wishes to you and good luck:)....
 
Ridendrive said:
OK. I give up. I see we have a few young "barefoot only" girls here. We'll see what you've learned in a decade or two. Best wishes to you and good luck:)....
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The majority of the BF girls (and boys) on here actually started off with shod horses as that is the norm in the UK. Generally their eyes were opened to BF when their horses suffered lameness/hoof problems that couldn't be helped with shoes. Taking the shoes off actually improved/solved the issues or in some cases saved the horse's life. So you've got it the wrong way round - what many have learned over time, is that shoes aren't always the best thing for the horse.

Thanks for the luck - that's always needed where horses are concerned. :)
 
TigerTail said:
the prolonged, but intermittent, abscess like symptoms but nothing blowing despite soaking and poulticing that has me v concerned. Plus the massive reaction to a flexion. All very convoluted.
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A 2yr old I had presented exactly as he had the previous year as a yearling in the same foot. As a yearling abcess eventually burst out of his coronary band and was ok. Same happened the following year so thought abcess again but despite 2 visits to farrier to try and get to it nothing could be found. After a complete cock up by a referal vet who tried to tell me it was in his hip (didn't listen to me trying to say it was in his foot but what do I know!) a visit to the farrier found the cause. Keratoma. The reason it wasn't found earlier was that it hadn't grown down through his sole but once it had you could see it when the foot was pared back.
 
Oh my giddy aunt burge! I blinking hope its not a keratoma :eek: just been looking at hoof resections and nearly losing my dinner.
 
Ridendrive said:
OK. I give up. I see we have a few young "barefoot only" girls here. We'll see what you've learned in a decade or two. Best wishes to you and good luck:)....
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another one who cannot see how shoes will improve the situation. The horse can be exercised in boots if necessary. I have found cracks grow out a lot more easily without shoes and in fact you can resolve most problems more quickly barefoot.

ps. I'm another who is old, grey and crippled. :) and I have learnt this all in a decade or two, in fact it is 40 years ago now since I got my first barefoot horse.

TT. I have PM'd you.
 
Yes, I'm old, grey, crippled and have that stooped back you get from spending too much time bent over inspecting hooves :D

TT - don't panic about the keratoma. That's what we briefly thought about mine (including a bulge in the hoof wall that vet sucked teeth about). It's grown out now and there haven't been any further abscesses.
 
Ridendrive said:
OK. I give up. I see we have a few young "barefoot only" girls here. We'll see what you've learned in a decade or two. Best wishes to you and good luck:)....
Click to expand...

Oh dear oh dear oh dear. Why 'girls'? There's a fair few 'barefoot' men about you know.

But thanks for giving me something to smile about. And maybe in a decade or two you will come to know what us 'girls' learnt a decade or two ago.

Toddles off with zimmer frame...
 
RE Keratoma - my friend's horse had one and he was just plain old lame, no on/off lameness. However, he had it removed and once the hoof had grown out he returned to full work and is doing fantastically well. :)
 
Another one here!:)
So, 45 years of shoeing but only 3 of barefoot. However, still convinced it is the best option for my horse, and I am struggling with a similar abcess this week.
I didn't know bute would slow it down - I learn something new every day.
 
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