intermittent lameness - PLEASE HELP! END of my tether!

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Bluestar_69

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Hi, this is a long story so I'll try to make it easy. I have a 6 1/2 year old Gypsy cob. I bought him 3 1/2 years ago from a wild herd, had never had anything done to him. I broke him slowly myself & he's only ever been hacked very quietly. He is barefoot & trimmed every 8 weeks or less by a qualified equine pediotrist.

about 2 1/2 years ago we were walking down a hill & his rear right leg locked up. I got off, walked him a bit & he seemed OK. next time I rode he didnt feel even in trot so turned him out for 2 weeks. Ever since then he's not been 100%. He's intermittently lame, he'll be OK & feel fine for a few strides then feel lame, then feel OK. it's mostly in trot he feels rubbish.

He's seen about 6 vets from 2 practices. both pratices thought it was his stifle. he's had X-rays, ultrasounds & nerve blocks with no results comming back.

when he feels lame he feels like he's lifting his head rather than dropping it.

He's seen a physio who said he looked lame on both rear legs, he's seem a McTimoney chiropractor who said his pelvis is rotated, he had treatment with her & seemed to get a BIT better but not much.

So, the last few month's I've kind of given up & tried to ride very gentaly as he doesnt seem to be in pain (he's only ridden twice a week)

Now I just really want to get this sorted out as It's getting me down!

I rode on the weekend & tried a few things out. He's definately MORE lame & head 'bobby' when ridden & when I do rising trot??? if I stand for trot he seems a bit better & when he's going really forward he feels pretty much 100% OK!

I'm not convinved it's a rear end problem, although after being ridden he sometimes looks a little stiff on the back end? but I dont know now if I'm over analysing things!

Any one out there got ANY ideas what might be wrong with im?! He frequently feels in trot like he wants to canter, but not in a running away way, like maybe it's more comfy, but he cant sustain a canter with me on him for more then a hundred yards. when lunged he'll do a good few rotations without me even chasing him!

HELP!!!!!
 
Hello. Not sure if this will help, but some of this sounds a bit like my old horse some years ago. He wasn't right behind. on the left hind, and I had that same feeling of wanting to canter in trot, and in canter, feeling disunited behind.

My vet originally thought it was his stifle, as that was what my horse seemed to be showing on the flexion tests etc, so he had a few weeks off before the vet came back. On the return visit, he was then showing signs of lameness in the fetlock, not the stifle, and subsequent nerve blocks and x-rays confirmed this - what I guess would now be classed as DJD.

Unfortunately, my horse was put down, as he was 20 and a big horse who already had other problems. Also, I did not have any issues with my vet for saying it was his stifle in the first place - he can only go on what the horse "tells" him at the time.

Guess what I'm trying to say in a rather long-winded way, is that if the vets have been concentrating on his stifle, it may be worth looking somewhere else now. However, it does sound like you've already had a lot done, so apologies if you have already covered this.

Just another thought, as you haven't mentioned it and if you haven't already, have you had his saddle checked? I've known cases where this has made a huge difference in a horse which isn't quite right.
 
If he's buggered his stifle, then he may never come right. Turn him away and see what the spring brings.

I'm assuming that you have him on a course of bute of danillon?
 
A lot of this points to stifle problems. Have you had a specialist orthopaedic vet look at him? If not, it might be an idea to get a referral. Is there no improvement after stifle nerve blocks? If not, then maybe the stifle was a transcient problem and not at the root of what's going on now.

Other things to consider are back and teeth. Both back and teeth would be quite cheap to check out so you could eliminate them as the source of the problem. Back problem
and hind limb lameness can sometimes present with the same symptoms. Are his teeth done regularly? Sometimes tooth problems result in what feels like lameness or problems through the body.

Failing all this you might want to try scintigraphy, focusing on his back and hind limbs. It will highlight any areas of problems and will make it easier for you to concentrate on the 'right' area for treatment.

Good luck!
 
Hi, thanks guys...

He's had nerve blocks in his whole hind leg, made no difference at all all the way up from fetlock to stifle!

he has ultra sounds on his stife (by the 2 practices) & a high defination ultrasound & was told thya coulsnt see anything wrong, but even with the high def one his skin was so thick that they had problems seeing what was going on?????

the flexion tests showed a worsening when done on his stifle.... I've emailed the vets today to see if they can email me a copy of his notes & x-rays etc.

His teeth have been checked & are done every 10 months or so and he's seen the chiropractor so if there was a prob with his back she'd have picked that up??

He was ridden in a thorowgood griffin which used to slip to the right & bounce on his back, so I recently bought a treeless saddle & have added lots of extra padding to the Haf pad to protect his back.

he was turned away for about 4 months & that didnt help at all & he's over weight at the mo :-( so I need to be doing some work with him to get it off him (he want over weight when the problem started... it's from a combination of an old yard will too much grazing and a horse who can get a muzzle off in 2 seconds flat no matter how you try to tie it to him! and a lack of excersise)

would you reccomend another visit from the chiropractor or a physio? the physio I used was reccomended by the vets but I didnt think she was much cop, she didnt really do alot???
 
what about delayed release of the patella... ahs anyone had any experience of this. I just found an article & alot of his 'symptoms' are like this condition
 
Am probably going to get shot down for saying this, but was he struggling before you got the treeless saddle? It's just that my Physio and Saddler have both commented on how busy they have been kept sorting out sore backs caused by treeless saddles, apparently they cause a lot of back problems on horses that use them, generally behind the cantle area which isn't a million miles away from where you think some of the discomfort could possible be coming from.

If it isn't that I might be inclined to go with a scintigraphy scan from a specialist. I couldn't get my horse's niggling on and off lamess diagnosed for 2 yrs , I also had some behavioural issues appearing and gradually worsening. The scan revealed kissing spines which was successfully operated on, the vets struggled to diagnose as he was bi-laterally lame so it was well hidden! I now have my lovely happy boy back!

Best of luck to you, hope you get it solved!
 
It could be anything to be honest. Some things are not detectable by ultrasound and xray. for example, my horse has arthritis of the upper hock - he had everything, full xrays x2, ultrasound, complete nerve blocks and scintigraphy. Nothing was found on any of the those scans - he looks completely normal. However, MRI revealed that he has OCD in the upper hock and has now been retired.

I would get him referred to a good vet hospital for a full lameness work up if he is still insured. I would recommend Sue Dyson at AHT as being very thorough (although be prepared for a belt and braces approach so make sure your insurance is covering it).
 
OCD in the stiffle is the first thing that came to mind when you described your problems and that would not show on ultrasound or x-ray, BUT you should have seen a big improvement with stiffle nerve blocks which you say you haven't so I am not so sure what to suggest other than re-checking his back (physio would be my choice) and scintigraphy.
 
The vet said OCD to begin, so he was looking for that when scanned/nerve blocked etc. The problem is is although he is still insured, the claim has closed as it has been over a year & they have excluded his leg from the policy :-(

I fed him superflex for a good few months to see if that helped as the vet said if it was OCD I might see an improvement & there was no change. I have emailed my vet & asked for then to forward me his notes etc as I want to get another opinion as soon as I can afford it.

The sypmtoms of delayed patella release ring ture in may ways, when he comes down drom canter to trot he's very jerky and it's like he cant quite stop his back end & it gets right underneath him, and he drags his toes alot. BUT, he does the side way's movement with his leg as it comes forward like he would if he had OCD. His leg doesnt come straight forward, it circles out underneath him.

Why do we do it to ourselves???? I've been riding for 22 years, He is my 1st horse that I have owned, I've had loans & borrowed odds & sods my whole life NEVER had a horse go lame on me EVER & go out & buy my own & he's broken
frown.gif
 
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Am probably going to get shot down for saying this, but was he struggling before you got the treeless saddle? It's just that my Physio and Saddler have both commented on how busy they have been kept sorting out sore backs caused by treeless saddles, apparently they cause a lot of back problems on horses that use them, generally behind the cantle area which isn't a million miles away from where you think some of the discomfort could possible be coming from.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeh, it was before I went treeless.... he seems happier in the treeless.
 
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The vet said OCD to begin, so he was looking for that when scanned/nerve blocked etc. The problem is is although he is still insured, the claim has closed as it has been over a year & they have excluded his leg from the policy :-(

I fed him superflex for a good few months to see if that helped as the vet said if it was OCD I might see an improvement & there was no change. I have emailed my vet & asked for then to forward me his notes etc as I want to get another opinion as soon as I can afford it.

The sypmtoms of delayed patella release ring ture in may ways, when he comes down drom canter to trot he's very jerky and it's like he cant quite stop his back end & it gets right underneath him, and he drags his toes alot. BUT, he does the side way's movement with his leg as it comes forward like he would if he had OCD. His leg doesnt come straight forward, it circles out underneath him.



[/ QUOTE ]

Still sounds like OCD to me, so I would ask for a referral to a specialist vet. Graeme Monroe did my boy's OCD stiffles and he was great.

Bummer about the insurance!!!! However, a referral for a lameness work-up and stiffle nerve block should not cost too much (I am sure they will be able to give you a quote in advance).

Good luck!!!!
 
Hi,
been going through the same with my 9 year old Arab for the past year. He initially came up lame 2 days after a trim (he is barefoot). He does the same movement you describe: While trotting, he suddenly throws up his front end and "leaps" forward. It almost seems like he is trying to canter except the back end doesn't follow through. Some days he doesn't do it at all, sometimes a few times per ride, and sometimes every minute or so. He also has issues picking up the right canter lead (on one hand only), drags his toes, avoids engaging his hind end, and hollows his back. During canter-trot transitions, it looks like he stabs one hind leg into the ground and does not bring it under properly - very awkward.

He does it on the lunge line with no tack as well. Nothing changed with my riding (4x per week) or his food/keeping at the time. He is in a paddock at night and turned out during the day in a herd.

First vet thought laminitis. He was intermittently foot sore to hoof testers, but not consistently. He did not block out for both front feet. X rays showed no rotation and good sole depth. I removed all grain (ever only got a handful anyways) and put him on grass hay only. He was a moderately heavy at the time. He was on paddock rest for 2 weeks. Didn't help. Shoes with equipack didn't help. Did a test for insuline resistance (thought to be the culprit behind the laminitis) twice, both negative.

2 months off did not help. Second vet did not see the lamness as he was good that day. Third vet (lameness specialist) saw him on a good day and said he looked slightly lame on the hind end. I had taken a video of the odd "leaping" movement and the vet immediately said that it looks very typical for intermittent upward fixation of the patella (aka stifle lock). He did flexion tests and the horse reacted strongly on the right hind. The vet then stood in front of the stifle, facing backwards. He pressed onto the patella (kneecap), and told me to walk the horse forward. A healthy horse should be able to just push him to the side and keep walking. A horse with stifle problems can't. My horse went sideways because he couldn't walk forward. In severe cases the vet says he can manually lock the stifle that way.

So his diagnosis for now is intermittent upward fixation of the patella (UFP). The ligament catches just a tiny little bit for a fraction of a second. That's what causes the jerky movement. Someone mentioned "delayed patellar release" further up, which is the same. This is a mechanical issue which can be caused by a straight hind leg conformation (which my horse has) and a lack of fitness. it is often seen in young horses that are unfit, or in older horses that have had some time off or are otherwise unfit. Not sure why it started in my horse. Anyways, the vet said in many cases it can be cured by a rigorous exercise regime with lots of hillwork, backing and ground poles to strengthen the muscles around the patella. I have been doing this for 2 months with little to no improvement. The next step would be injecting the patella ligament with an irritant. However I refuse to do this before all other issues are ruled out.

The vet is coming back out tomorrow to block both hind legs from the hoof up. He didn't do this last time because the horse was not really showing lame at the time. This will help to rule out other issues such as arthritis etc. He stressed that if it is the patella it will not block out as it is a mechanical issue. So just because a stifle block didn't block it out it doesn't mean it can't be UFP. The vet did say that my horse has some pain in the back and in the affected leg, which he says could very well be from compensating for this issue for the past year.

We will see what tomorrow brings. I hope it will at least rule out a few things. It is very difficult to deal with this issue as it is intermittent and it I hate riding my horse when I have the feeling he is hurting/uncomfortable, whether it's vet prescribed or not. Add to that the numerous smart people who still tell me that he "is just trying to get out of work" and it is tough to know what to do sometimes.

Given that your horse is young and you mentioned a little unfit, and has had his stifle lock up, I think UFP might be your problem. Please keep us posted - I am very interested in hearing what you find.

Sorry this was so long.

Oh, and I have no insurance either... :-(
 
Bluestar - I would treat one thing at a time. As everything points to the stifle, start with that. Have you done an extensive period of box rest? By extensive I mean 6 weeks - pasture rest is far less effective and almost pointless. If you add in some magnets sewn into your stable rug and a reduction in feed you may find that the combination of weight loss and reduced movement aid recovery. If you do this don't be tempted to test by trotting up regularly, rest is rest.

Once you have box rested you can then look at controlled turnout - however this is a long term thing, 6-12months is not unusual for recovery from a stifle injury and if you rush it you will go straight back to the beginning.
 
Update: Vet came out and blocked both hind hocks and he showed about 60% improvement. The vet said that my horse likely has arthritis in both hocks and suggested joint injections. Although my horse still did the odd leaping movement after the blocks, he did flex his hocks way more and did not drag his toes near as much and stepped under more. The vet checked his back and it was very sore - in his opinion a result of compensating for the hock pain.

Now my horse is off for the week with some bute until we do the injections. We will see if that improves things. Bluestar_69, any progress on your horses lameness? Have you ever buted him for a week and seen if it makes a difference? I would second mother_hen's advice and see if you can give him a longer time period off. Although if it is the delayed patella, that would definitely not improve things.
 
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