Intermittent soreness in hind feet

SaffronWelshDragon

SaffronWelshDragon

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Hi guys, going to post this over here in case I get any more responses.

Just got back from a ride, a noticed something odd going on with Saf. This also happened a couple of weeks ago, last time I rode.

Was towards the end of the hack and went through the byway, which is quite stoney but normally not a problem. She felt like her back end was higher than her front, and was a tad hobbly on her hind legs. My sister was behind and said that she was holding her hooves up for a tad longer, than putting them down, like she didn't like the going. We were only 5 mins from home to carried on and checked her over. Couldn't see anything amiss, no swelling, bit of heat in both legs, but similar to my sister's pony, i.e normal warmth. Took each leg in turn and held it up, moved it around a bit and didn't get any miffed looks from Saf. Lead her back to her field through the woods and she walked off the track, like she didn't like the going. Once back in the field she was normal and trotted off with her mates for her dinner.

Background: Not noticed anything like this before (I've have her 7 years). She's shod on fronts only and lives out 24/7. The field is very wet and muddy in places, but you know what the weathers been like. Any ideas?
 
It's probably to do with all the rain we've had, softening the bare feet , so therefore becoming footy on stony ground, the wetter the foot is the softer the foot is, does that make any sense
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Thanks very much, makes perfect sense
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I'm just terrible for worrying about her as shes my pride and joy
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Just had a good look at her feet (through the mud) and can't see any obvious signs of thrush, frog looks fine as well, and also can't see any signs of mud fever (she's not know for getting this).
 
It may make sense but I think it's wrong.

wet ground does not affect feet that have been barefoot for seven years.~


YOur pony is probably laminitic. The spring grass is coming through, plus she has had frosted grass for weeks, and she has a touch of laminitis which makes her soles sore. She's shod in front so you aren't noticing it in front.

This is one of the benefits of barefoot - you know earlier what is going on with your horse. You need to take her off the grass during the daytime or restrict her access to it in some other way like strip grazing.
 
She isn't over 15? Other than the obvious like mud fever I thought as time goes by the hooves get more sensitive a bit like us walking over a stoney beach. Anyhow get your farrier to do a foot test just to see and maybe when it is really awful like now put her onto pads (Nike Air for horses)....makes them go faster too
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Blimey cptrayes, wasn't expecting to hear that.
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Saf is looking very sleek and isn't carrying any extra weight, also, all of them are in about 1/3 of a 6 acre field (about 2 acres?) which hardly had any grass in it. They have 1/2 or 3/4 bale of hay a day, a cupful of BioLife with a bit of Dengie HiFi Lite. Not sure what else I can do.

LeperMessiah, yep, she must be about 16 now, will get the farrier to have a look next time he's here, although I don't think he's due for another 5 weeks.
 
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YOur pony is probably laminitic.

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Oh for G*d's sake give it a friggin rest.

OP, stick some hind shoes on - problem solved
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YOur pony is probably laminitic.

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Oh for G*d's sake give it a friggin rest.

OP, stick some hind shoes on - problem solved
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Have you heard of low grade laminitis? Affects many horses and is generally not noticed, ignored, dismissed as intermittent lameness, or caused by 'hard' ground or the horse gets blamed for being nappy or lazy. Do a bit of research and you'll learn something rather than just jumping on cptrayes who is one of the most knowledgable people on here when it comes to feet.

Two choices - treat the condition by removing the cause (restricting grazing/changing feed/ or even just giving a magnesium supplement can be enough in mild cases) or ignore it by slapping shoes on. That tried and tested solution for everything - if you can't see something it doesn't exist. I used to try it when I was a kid - if I shut my eyes people couldn't see me. I know which I'd rather do for my horses - ignore it or treat it.... hummmmm.... hard choice that one.
 
Or barefoot hysterics could not overreact everytime someone posts about a 'sore' unshod horse - and look at the most logical reason for the discomfort. Lack of shoes.

Not rocket science........
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The OP asked for advice and cptrayes gave it. How is that hysterical? It's not the lack of shoes that causes discomfort it's the lack of strength in the feet - that's pretty obvious isn't it? That's like putting a plaster on a bleeding wound and saying the plaster has stopped the bleeding. There's got to be a physiological reason behind the discomfort - and that reason is most commonly LGL. Putting shoes on will mask the pain because the sole which has become sensitive is no longer touching the ground but the problem hasn't gone away. The shoes haven't healed anything - they're just acting as a plaster.
 
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It's not the lack of shoes that causes discomfort it's the lack of strength in the feet - that's pretty obvious isn't it?

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Well to some degree yes. However the psychological reason you talk about is a slight red herring - because all reaction to pain is psychological. Take away the nurological reactors and you feel no pain........

But I do feel that exponents of BareFoot can tend to the dramatic rather than the logical - and not every case of sore feet can possibly be put down to some form of laminitis or managerial defecit. It's this attitude that so turns people off.

Many people keep their horses barefoot with great success. Not every horse copes though - and to my mind the OP is describing a horse that more than likely just needs a set of shoes on the back - rather than a visit from the vet to look for signs of illness.
 
What other cause of sore feet is there be beyond laminitis or other managerial defecit? Wild horses don't get sore feet and the terrain they cross day in day out is hard, rocky, and very abrasive. Wild horses never need shoes - so why do domestic horses? Because of the way we manage them. That's not overly dramatic - just the plain facts.

The OP's horse doesn't need shoes at the back or a visit from the vet, just a tweak to the diet and some hoof boots so they can continue working in comfort.
 
It's funny how some people blame every issue with a shod horse on the shoe and every problem on horses without shoes on everything but the lack of shoes!

My horse doesn't like pigs, I wonder if it's because he has shoes on?

To OP - does your lad have thrush? That can make him unconfortable?
 
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Wild horses never need shoes - so why do domestic horses?

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Now it's your turn to do some research in to the history of shoeing, and why it came about
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Enjoy.
 
I've done all the research already - and it backs up exactly what I was saying. Horses need shoes because of the way humans manage them (high sugar diets/kept in stables). So all we need to do is change the way we keep them to better mimic their natural environment (diet and type of turnout/exercise) and bingo - no more need for shoes. Definitely not rocket science
 
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Horses need shoes because of the way humans manage them (high sugar diets/kept in stables)

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You're not research back far enough in to history........
 
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Yeah sorry - I forgot about the time before man domesticated horses and horses went round nailing shoes onto each other.

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If you're interested in the subject, then you will be happy to look back in to history to see the reasons behined the introduction of shoes on horses. The first shoes were not nailed on, but instead were padding used to protect primarily war horses and draught horses during campaigns that took them over varying terrain.

If you want to be an exponent of a particular management - do understand its history and development, before starting to level criticisms at others, and responding with sarcastic posts.
 
Sorry for having a sense of humour!

I have studied the history of shoeing and could write you a whole essay but the essential point I was trying to make is that horses only 'need' shoes because of the way man manages them. You must agree with me because that's exactly what you've posted above isn't it?
 
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Yeah sorry - I forgot about the time before man domesticated horses and horses went round nailing shoes onto each other.

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LOL
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C
 
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Yeah sorry - I forgot about the time before man domesticated horses and horses went round nailing shoes onto each other.

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If you're interested in the subject, then you will be happy to look back in to history to see the reasons behined the introduction of shoes on horses. The first shoes were not nailed on, but instead were padding used to protect primarily war horses and draught horses during campaigns that took them over varying terrain.


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But Sally the reason that they had to do that was not because of the terrain itself. It was because war horses stood around (often in mud) for days or weeks at a time waiting for action and then they were needed to go into battle sound. You can't ask that of a barefoot horse, they need constant conditioning on the kind of terrain they are going to be asked to work on. Hence - shoes. It is all to do with environment and management.

Why should the OP shoe this horse before trying to restrict its access to grass? It will give her extra expense and may leave her horse with low grade laminitis which might blowup into full laminitis later. If the horse's issue is not the grass sugars (which will have been sky high during weeks and weeks of frost, hence her problem this year and no other year) then she can shoe it then, can't she? But why shoe it first, when hundreds of barefoot horses have exactly the same problem managed perfectly well by better control of their diet?

It seems to me that it is you jumping to a solution, not me. I would rather find out why the horse has suddenly, after seven years, developed a problem than go straight for shoes.
 
QR- if it was my horse i would paint some keretex hoof hardener on her soles. solves 99% of issues with my barefoot horses who go a bit footsore ocassionally.

this snow has been a nightmare for bare feet.

i am very worried about people diagnosing laminitis without any qualifications or even seeing the horse in question.
 
Laminitis is not an illness millitiger, it's a symptom. It just means inflammation of the laminae. The first sign is sore soles, with a hind leg footfall exactly as the poster describes. No "treatment" is required, just management. What worries you particularly about the suggestion that she should try removing her horse from the grass for a day or two?

Keratex hoof hardener is 8% formaldehyde in a very expensive bottle. Sheep foot dip diluted with three times its own volume of water is almost the same thing. It works just like Keratex, but it's very harsh and not a chemical I like to use.

I live at 1100 feet in a National Park. We have had lying snow now for four months solid. There has been no difference at all in my own barefoot horses feet. Whatever is going on with the OP I have trouble believing that the snow was anything to do with it, other than the frost raising fructan levels in the grass for an unprecedented length of time this winter.
 
Thanks for all your feedback everyone, albeit in the middle of a barefoot vs shoes war!
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Will take all your suggestions on board. The only thing that puzzles me slightly is that my Welsh A pony is the laminitis sufferer of the herd and is in the same field as Saffron, I'm sure that if there was any additional sugar in the grass she would have shown signs of soreness before Saf (?)

Like I said, they all live out all year, don't have any access to stables, although Saf hates being stabled and would go nuts anyway. They have about 2 acres, which they've been in since October, 30% of which is mud. I've been studying the grass and there just doesn't look like there's much there. I can't see what else I can do to restrict her, she's very lean at the moment. Do I just keep my fingers crossed that the frost and cold weather will go away soon, is the usual spring grass likely to affect her now? Argh!
 
I have one horse who feels it and several who don't. It's like that, it varies very much horse to horse. My rehab was going to be put down because of it. Off grass for four days, he is no longer footsore.

Leanness is also no indicator I'm afraid. The last serious one I had was an eventing fit eight year old. How old is your mare? A sudden feeling of her feet after years of being kept in the same conditions is soething that can happen to older horses if they get early signs of Cushings. Thinness also goes with that condition.

Bare fields actually contain the most fructan because grass gets more fructan as it gets stressed. It is also astonishing how much grass they get off a field that looks like nothing but mud. You've had conditions the like of which we have never seen before. Week after week of frost. Frosted grass is also full of fructans.

The people on uknhcp.myfastforum.com might help with diet/supplement suggestions. Or PM me and I'll try and help.

There is nothing, by the way, wrong with shoeing her if she remains uncomfortable.
 
cptrayes, nothing worries me about taking the horse off grass for a few days.

it worries me when there is a diagnosis of laminitis, as i said before, when you haven't seen the horse in question.
i haven't said anything about "treatment" so not sure why it is in quotation marks?

there is no need to be so defensive all of the time.

out of interest, do you think the only reason a barefoot horse is ever footsore is from laminitis?
 
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