Intro/BE90: Challenging jumps

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Hello!

As part of some research I'm doing to try and develop a competition site, I'd love to know what jumps and combinations do you find to be a tough, but fair, test at Intro level? If you were designing a grassroots championship course (I'm not, don't fret!) and wanted to make the cross country a real test, what would you put in it? What's caught you out if you compete at that level?

It would be great to hear as many opinions as possible - thanks in advance.
 
Well I recently slipped up at Eridge. The jump was not that difficult, a "mounting block" then down and up a quarry type bit to a brush, there were a lot of jumps in the area and the approach in was hilly and narrow, I just over steadied to get the line in right. I don't really like big drops or steps into water but I think that's just me!
 
Anything particularly ditchy: so ditch palisades, half or full coffins. I think they are a fair test at this level if the jumps are placed strategically and the horse has time to see the ditch (say 3/4 strides between the fences and the ditch). A lot of people will disagree with me and say that it's quite harsh. However, I think cross country should be based upon things you'd find out hunting, if your horse is ditchy- you'd have a problem! Better to get it dealt with at 90 than move up the levels and come a cropper!
 
Thank you both for your replies.

I definitely think there's something in that HelenPassfield - fences at the top of short, steep hills provide a test right the way through the levels. Look at Capability's Cutting at Burghley!

Eventer96 - I totally agree with you about the XC and Hunting link. I'd have said 3/4 strides is quite lenient, but that's why I appreciate responses from people on here! I'll definitely look at half/full coffin possibilities. Out of interest, in a half coffin, which do you think is easier: the fence being before or after the ditch?
 
It's difficult to say, I'd say it's easier if the fence is afterwards. I'd expect many BE90 riders to freeze about having a ditch afterwards and thus not ride strong enough into the first fence which may enhance a rotational risk (in an extreme situation). The ditch before just means the rider needs to ride strongly after to ensure they get a good shot to the fence going out. I'd expect a novice coffin to have 1/2 stride allowance hence me being quite lenient. So in short, at 90 with a half coffin I'd say the fence afterwards would be preffable for most people and would encourage forward thinking riding. Rather than post-jump ditch panic! :)
 
I can remember am unaff hunter trials 3ft class - fence 4 caused carnage. Just a step up then a stride to narrow log.

Probably would be classed as too technical for BE90
 
I really dislike the third fence at oasby (assuming its still the same one). A square parallel/spread fence of max dimensions; had problems with two horses at this fence, a green, naughty horse, and a much more experienced eventer, who had done up to novice.

You turn a corner to get to it, then straight ahead in the next field is the lorry park. When I did it on naughty green horse, a brush fence of max dimensions was situated as the fourth fence about four strides from fence three. Came around the corner on naughty horse, had one run out as he was too busy concentrating on the lorry park (which was the direction he wanted to travel in). Second time around he had got over the lorry park fixation, and was going to jump fence three, he took off with his front legs, then saw the back rail of the fence, and probably the one after it. He thought the fence had been one simple "hanging log" type fence. I ended up on the landing side of the fence, minus horse.

On the more experienced horse, possibly a similar thing, he went to jump it, and if memory serves me correctly, he also obviously thought the same about the set up of the fence, and ended up with his front legs in between the two rails. Walked out, then went straight over it.

For me, I don't like this fence at all. It's the third fence on the course, round a corner and at max height, with both the rails square on to each other. Had the front rail been slightly lower at the front, the experienced horse would have not misjudged it. Not sure what naughty horse would have done, but that's another matter.

I'm sure plenty will disagree with me, as most other people seem to jump it fine!
 
The fences that seem to catch people out at that level are ones where you need oomph then accuracy. So a biggish fence followed by a skinny that is on a curve. Or a ditch to a skinny- at Isleham, the new ditch to skinny is on a slightly curved line and it cause problems.

Corners where there isn't a nice turn to set you up for it, where you have to go straight and then do it yourself but with a true corner, not a wedge...
 
Another interesting one was a few years ago was an RC Area Horse Trials were held over a BE Intro course. A hanging log in a tree line on the way down to the river crossing which seems an innocuous fence on walking the XC but a lot of folks were getting eliminated or coming off there. Not sure if it was that the horses didn't see the water at the bottom of the slope until they just about to take off or what....
 
I thought that the sunken road at Twesledown was a big ask for 90. Ditches then two strides to a fence is OK, they have those at 80 level. The one at Mattingly is a hidden ditch as well followed by a palisade and it wasn't a problem for my green horse :).
 
I think the chairs at Aston le Walls are quite tough as they are a lot for a green horse to take in on approach - I've stopped there on two different runs (jumped perfectly on second attempt both times). They are benches, but in a truncated C shape, I think 2 strides apart. Once they were in line with each other I think, the other time they were definitely offset (so you could jump one, then ride an awkward loop, and then jump the other, if you thought you needed to). There's a decent sunken road there too - one stride in the middle - and it often has a skinny after you've jumped out - looks tough but rides really nicely.

I haven't seen the rails at Oasby - don't think they were there last year?

Bury Farm has a double of very bright white houses. They are in the 80cm and 90cm course and I've seen lots of problems at them.
 
I haven't been to oasby the past year so they may have changed. It was a permenant fence not a portable.
 
I think the only time I've seen anything I thought was a bit of a difficult question for the level at 90, was in the unaff at ALW where as fence three they had a house, couple of strides, step up, house on bank, step down. It was just a bit early in the course for my liking to have such a question, and people rode it scarily badly, with quite a few putting one stride in after the first element, then bouncing the step to house! If it had been at the end of the course, I think it would have been fine, it was just a very testing combination fence really early on. It rode fine in the BE apparently.
 
Unaff as well? if so ditch 2 strides to a tiny skinny, a jump one stride then a drop in to water and jumps in the water. Affiliated would be skinnys on curving lines from another fence, horse shoes and jumps with roofs.
 
The course at Oasby changed this year but prior to that the oxer at 3 has been there for yonks. I think the fact that it's an open oxer puts riders off - most would prefer a fence of the same dimensions but a solid box. I don't think it's an unreasoble question but possibly looks bigger because the previous two fences are quite small.
 
I have cause to know that oxer at fence 3 at Oasby rather well. In fact here are some pictures of it going wrong!







I did manage to stay on though! That was the novice fence, but they did have the same question across all levels, just at different heights. The following spring it was made a little easier as they filled it in with trees, and we had a far more comfortable jump!

http://s854.photobucket.com/user/charlimouse/media/IMG_2391.jpg.html

At BE80/90 level I think the fences which cause the most problems are generally those which require a specific canter approach. This would cover a ditch combination or a step combination. Essentially something which cannot be jumped using speed alone, but also requires power, or something spooky (in the case of the ditch). I'm not sure whether it is a case that the riders aren't educated on how to ride these fences, or whether horses aren't at the required level or have the ridability to adjust the canter. Probably a combination of factors really, but the fences which a rider can't just 'wing it' at tend to cause a few problems.
 
Last time I was at Oasby the intro fence did look smaller... all though that was probably me imagining it!
 
A fence at Bicton caught lot out as tested a few things. It was a step down 4 strides to corner. It was a clever fence as tested line, speed and accuracy.
 
LEC said:
A fence at Bicton caught lot out as tested a few things. It was a step down 4 strides to corner. It was a clever fence as tested line, speed and accuracy.
Click to expand...

Funny, isn't it. When I started eventing you could get to Novice without having jumped a corner (I did with one mare!). Then they appeared at PN, almost always with an alternative, then Intro, always with an alternative. Now they appear as part of combinations at BE90!

I think it's a positive move. To be honest the mare mentioned above was rubbish at corners when she finally met them 1) because I hadn't had the practice and didn't really know how to ride them effectively and 2) because the first ones she met were Nov ones ie. big, unforgiving, wide and with only a small area you could actually jump and no margin for error. I much prefer the modern method of introducing fairly harmless and narrow 'wedges' at the lowest levels and progressively working up to the technical ones at Novice.
 
I never saw corners till PN back in 2006 and I managed to successfully do a whole season at Novice avoiding them in 2007 or they had alternatives. Now you never see an alternative at Novice!
 
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