Irresponsible Owners.

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navaho

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Why do some owners feel the need to lie to you & treat you like you are stupid?
I shared my grazing last year with another chap & he turned a gelding out with mine that was aggressive towards my geldings & kept trying to mount the mares, he was a total nightmare. I asked the chap who we rented off if he could find out if he had just been cut as he was acting very stallion like, the guy who owned him assured us he hadnt & that he would settle in a few days. I wasnt convinced & moved my geldings out of the field for their own safety, stupidly i left my little mare in there as she didnt seem to be getting any hassle off him & if he did come near she was kicking the poop out of him....i guess you can see where this is going now?
Well i had a text 2 days ago from a friend of mine who now has the little mare to say she had sadly given birth to a still born foal, im so cross!! Cross with myself for not trusting my own judgement when it was so obvious he had only just been cut, cross that i didnt have the common sense to take my mare out of the field (though it would have been a mammoth task as shes unhandled) & cross that that idiot, who is from quite a well known cob stud, who obviously knew better & knew he wasnt allowed colts on the grazing, which he more or less was, chose to put my horses at risk, my mare at risk & the chap who we rented the fields from mares at risk! What a selfish & thoughtless ****!! & lastly im totally gutted for the little mare :(
Anyway, rant over!!
 
I'm so sorry. What a tale! What a liar! I just hope your mare is over it now, poor little soul.

There are some people in the horse world (as well as everywhere else) who are just compulsive liars - they'll tell you anything they think you want to hear, particularly over money, to suit themselves.

I'm not a lawyer, so don't know if you'd have any redress against the cob man - probably not. I should just spread the word of what he's done among your friends - things do sometimes come home to roost.....
 
If you were aware the horse was acting riggish then I'm afraid common sense would have told me to not leave a mare in with it??? Yes obviously it's irresponisible of the man to lie (if he did) but also I don't think you are fully innocent of accepting some of the responsiblity too? :confused:
 
You can't trust anyone can you, and sadly the horse world is full of it's fair share of liars (they make used car salesman look like pussycats a lot of the time).

Hope your little mare is ok and not to distraught by the loss of her foal.

Don't beat yourself up too much, we all make mistakes and hindsight is a wonderful thing.
 
jsr said:
If you were aware the horse was acting riggish then I'm afraid common sense would have told me to not leave a mare in with it??? Yes obviously it's irresponisible of the man to lie (if he did) but also I don't think you are fully innocent of accepting some of the responsiblity too? :confused:
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If you read my post properly i did say i was cross with myself for leaving her in there, & i fully accept some of the blame for what happened, hindsight is a wonderful thing. However even if i had of taken her out it may well have been to late anyway as i wasnt there when he was turned out with her, he was turned out in the morning & i didnt see the horses till later that day. We had a 3yr old colt gelded & would never have dreamt of turning him out with his mares, we waited 3 months before he went out with them & had he shown any signs of mounting the mares i would have whipped him straight back out. Should i have also mentioned the fact the owner of the cobs lives in Essex...we live in Wales, he chucks the horses in the field & leaves them for weeks without seeing them, infact his gelding was quite badly beaten by the other horses & he didnt even bother arranging for a vet to see to him.

Thanks Team Barney & Rose, shes doing ok & im sure she will be fine with time.
 
jsr said:
If you were aware the horse was acting riggish then I'm afraid common sense would have told me to not leave a mare in with it??? Yes obviously it's irresponisible of the man to lie (if he did) but also I don't think you are fully innocent of accepting some of the responsiblity too? :confused:
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∧∧∧∧∧∧ This I am afraid. I'd not leave a mare in with a riggy horse. I simply wouldn't want to risk of her getting hurt, let alone in foal. Live and learn. Do you still know the guy? Perhaps you should mention it, if you do. His horse mightn't be properly gelded. It would concern me.
 
I know who he is, ive only ever met him the once though, the gelding settled down after a few weeks so im pretty certain he had recently been gelded. The horse was also very lean as well when he was put out with ours which also makes me suspect he had only just been done. He wasnt just out with my mare though, he was out with at least 10 other mares as well, i wonder how many of those have dropped a foal?
Like ive already said, i do realise im partly to blame for what happened & yes it was a stupid thing to do, but at the time & as circumstances dictated it wasnt that easy to remove her from the situation.
 
navaho said:
If you read my post properly i did say i was cross with myself for leaving her in there, & i fully accept some of the blame for what happened, hindsight is a wonderful thing. However even if i had of taken her out it may well have been to late anyway as i wasnt there when he was turned out with her, he was turned out in the morning & i didnt see the horses till later that day. We had a 3yr old colt gelded & would never have dreamt of turning him out with his mares, we waited 3 months before he went out with them & had he shown any signs of mounting the mares i would have whipped him straight back out. Should i have also mentioned the fact the owner of the cobs lives in Essex...we live in Wales, he chucks the horses in the field & leaves them for weeks without seeing them, infact his gelding was quite badly beaten by the other horses & he didnt even bother arranging for a vet to see to him.

Thanks Team Barney & Rose, shes doing ok & im sure she will be fine with time.
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So you keep your horses (that you can't catch) in a field where people just add extra horses without your say or knowledge? :confused: Think I'd be looking at getting myself some new grazing rather than ranting and raving about someone else. A bit of foresight might be order do you not think?
 
I feel your pain. There's a guy about 3 fields over from us who has a small herd of cob mares. Earlier in the spring/summer we were getting non-horsey ramblers/walkers complaining the horses had no water and their feet were in a state, and if they were bad enough for non-horsey people to notice.... We took water to his mares for weeks (by hand in a wheelbarrow) before the owner turned up and got the idea that he needed to take water to them himself. Their feet, as far as I am aware, are still in a state.

Then he told us he was going to have a stallion in there with them for a bit.... we have 2 mares and my friend told him she wasn't happy but he assured her it would only be for a short time. When we actually saw the stallion he was a sorry little thing, little more than a baby himself, and we wondered how on earth he'd manage...3 months later he was very much grown up and bothering our mares, in fact the ensuing melee caused my friends mare to be badly injured. We had to keep our horses on the yard until he moved the damn thing, well they're still on the yard owing to my friend's horse's injury, good thing really because he actually got into their field after we'd bought them in and if I were going to breed my mare it would NOT be to that stallion ffs

The guy is nice enough, reckons he has horses in his blood, but honestly.... grrrrr
 
OP ignore the others, I would never in a million years expect a gelding to be able to sire a foal. He was very obviously a full rig. Not all geldings showing rig behaviour can sire foals!

My 3 yo section A who was gelded on his mother prior to weaning at 6 months old was seen mounting his shetland girlfiend in the summer and seeing off a pony gelding mate quite agressively. It does not mean he is a dangerous rig, nor that he can sire foals - he just got a bit hot under the collar! He is no longer in her field!

OP, can you get the vet fees off this bloke? I dont suppose the vet kept DNA samples did he? Perhaps a threatening letter saying you do have samples might make him think twice about being such an idiot in future and perhaps (very unlikely) he might give you some compensation??

Good luck.
 
jsr said:
So you keep your horses (that you can't catch) in a field where people just add extra horses without your say or knowledge? :confused: Think I'd be looking at getting myself some new grazing rather than ranting and raving about someone else. A bit of foresight might be order do you not think?
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Ermmmmm whoooa....get your facts straight before you go off on one thanks. The little mare in question i took home from Llanybydder sales after she had been abandoned there, she was totally wild & never been handled & at 16 years of age highly unlikely to change anytime soon, i was happy for her just to be out in the field doing her own thing & she was settled with the other horses. The rest of my horses yes i can catch thankyou. It was only my horses, the cob mans & the chap i rented from who had horses on there, not lots of different people as you imply. I wasnt worried about him moving his horses around, it was up to him what he put in & took out & it had never been a problem as they were usually youngsters anyway, you have to remember it wasnt some fancy livery yard, just 60 acres on top of a hill. On the subject of new grazing, yes we have moved & now have 12 acres to ourselves.
 
navaho said:
Ermmmmm whoooa....get your facts straight before you go off on one thanks. The little mare in question i took home from Llanybydder sales after she had been abandoned there, she was totally wild & never been handled & at 16 years of age highly unlikely to change anytime soon, i was happy for her just to be out in the field doing her own thing & she was settled with the other horses. The rest of my horses yes i can catch thankyou. It was only my horses, the cob mans & the chap i rented from who had horses on there, not lots of different people as you imply. I wasnt worried about him moving his horses around, it was up to him what he put in & took out & it had never been a problem as they were usually youngsters anyway, you have to remember it wasnt some fancy livery yard, just 60 acres on top of a hill. On the subject of new grazing, yes we have moved & now have 12 acres to ourselves.
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:DLol not me going 'off on one'?? Think it's you who's a little upset, personally I couldn't care less. You do seem to have a lot of drama's relating to your horses and like to blame people for the 'accidents' that seem to happen. Just my little opinion from your posts. Personally I wouldn't want random horses coming and going through my fields (no matter how many people they come from) but if that's the way you handle them why are you suprised when these things happen?
I'm not quiet sure what 'fancy livery yards' do myself as I have mine on a bog standard yard but we do ensure new horses are introduced carefully and anything showing riggish tendancies are removed for their and the other horses safety. Might be whats known as 'fancy' in some parts..round here it's common sense. ;)
 
What a terrible situation, and I think you've been very honest in your post. Hindsight is such a wonderful thing. I guess really the responsibility sits with all parties as you've said, including the landowner, but for the owner of the 'gelding' its damned stupid - he's lucky his horse wasnt seriously injured by any of the mares, let alone what he has/may have done to the mares turned out with him!

At least the mare is ok (I assume) now, however sad it was about the foal...
 
Black_Horse_White said:
^^^ Reading the replies I thought that too. It's the lying that would get to me. Not to mention the distress caused to the poor pony. Easily avoided. If he had been 100% honest in the first place.
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Hey, I'm making no excuses for what happened, but maybe the bloke didn't know his horse was recently gelded if he'd only recently purchased him?? (Had he?) Okay, sounds daft to us but there are a lot of less experienced people out there who'd buy a 'gelding' and not even think to ask when the gelding procedure was done. They'd just assume it had been done ages ago. To us riggy behaviour would be a clue.... but maybe the guy's just not very experienced?

Eeeek :eek: that the horse was out with 20 or so horses, though. Sure would be interesting to know if any other mare/s ended up in foal. Would be a big shock for the 'gelding's' owner to suddenly get an influx of vet-bill-claims from angry mare owners now, wouldn't it! That'd teach him quick enough I bet :rolleyes:
 
OP- hope the little mare's okay. Like you said hindsight is a wonderful thing!! My tb was cut as a 4yo and occassionally gets a bit above himself springtime but otherwise is a real pussy cat! It was down to the cob owner IMO to have informed you/field owner about his cobs "status" and to have not kept the cob there. Chin up ;)
 
Spyda said:
Hey, I'm making no excuses for what happened, but maybe the bloke didn't know his horse was recently gelded if he'd only recently purchased him?? (Had he?) Okay, sounds daft to us but there are a lot of less experienced people out there who'd buy a 'gelding' and not even think to ask when the gelding procedure was done.
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^^^this is quite true!^^^^^
 
Spyda said:
Hey, I'm making no excuses for what happened, but maybe the bloke didn't know his horse was recently gelded if he'd only recently purchased him?? (Had he?) Okay, sounds daft to us but there are a lot of less experienced people out there who'd buy a 'gelding' and not even think to ask when the gelding procedure was done. They'd just assume it had been done ages ago. To us riggy behaviour would be a clue.... but maybe the guy's just not very experienced?

Eeeek :eek: that the horse was out with 20 or so horses, though. Sure would be interesting to know if any other mare/s ended up in foal. Would be a big shock for the 'gelding's' owner to suddenly get an influx of vet-bill-claims from angry mare owners now, wouldn't it! That'd teach him quick enough I bet :rolleyes:
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Spyda most of the mares were his, it was a horse he bred. Hes old enough to know better & hes quite a well known Welsh cob breeder.
 
navaho said:
Spyda most of the mares were his, it was a horse he bred. Hes old enough to know better & hes quite a well known Welsh cob breeder.
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Ooooh, well in that case I'm wholeheartedly on your side. What a d*ck. In that case I'd DEFINITELY be seeking compensation for any vet charges associated with the little mare loosing her foal. Irresponsible idiot :(

OP: Sorry to have questioned your outrage. I was just trying to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Huh :mad:
 
Spyda said:
Ooooh, well in that case I'm wholeheartedly on your side. What a d*ck. In that case I'd DEFINITELY be seeking compensation for any vet charges associated with the little mare loosing her foal. Irresponsible idiot :(

OP: Sorry to have questioned your outrage. I was just trying to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Huh :mad:
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I guess i should have been clearer in my original post, trouble is i tend to waffle & wanted to keep it short. Thanks :)
 
jsr said:
Personally I wouldn't want random horses coming and going through my fields (no matter how many people they come from)
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Neither would I, and I've only ever kept my horses on farms, never been on a fancy livery yard. My ponies have to share with cattle and sheep on and off (more than happy with that), but never with other people's horses.
 
marmalade76 said:
Neither would I, and I've only ever kept my horses on farms, never been on a fancy livery yard. My ponies have to share with cattle and sheep on and off (more than happy with that), but never with other people's horses.
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I think that some people can't be choosers necessarily, certainly not with the financial climate as it is.

And the OP has clarified this now - not just random horses in an out of fields.
 
navaho said:
Why do some owners feel the need to lie to you & treat you like you are stupid?
I shared my grazing last year with another chap & he turned a gelding out with mine that was aggressive towards my geldings & kept trying to mount the mares, he was a total nightmare. I asked the chap who we rented off if he could find out if he had just been cut as he was acting very stallion like, the guy who owned him assured us he hadnt & that he would settle in a few days. I wasnt convinced & moved my geldings out of the field for their own safety, stupidly i left my little mare in there as she didnt seem to be getting any hassle off him & if he did come near she was kicking the poop out of him....i guess you can see where this is going now?
Well i had a text 2 days ago from a friend of mine who now has the little mare to say she had sadly given birth to a still born foal, im so cross!! Cross with myself for not trusting my own judgement when it was so obvious he had only just been cut, cross that i didnt have the common sense to take my mare out of the field (though it would have been a mammoth task as shes unhandled) & cross that that idiot, who is from quite a well known cob stud, who obviously knew better & knew he wasnt allowed colts on the grazing, which he more or less was, chose to put my horses at risk, my mare at risk & the chap who we rented the fields from mares at risk! What a selfish & thoughtless ****!! & lastly im totally gutted for the little mare :(
Anyway, rant over!!
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i do think that its sad that this poor mare has had to go through this but i can't believe that you are saying that this man has been (and i quote) an "irresponsible owner" when you have openly stated that " i left my little mare in there as she didnt seem to be getting any hassle off him & if he did come near she was kicking the poop out of him"- so really she WAS getting hassled wasn't she and it was causing her to try and kick him- so it was highly possible that this man's horse might get hurt or your own mare???
yes you've said that you are annoyed with yourself for not acting sooner- but maybe this chap has written a post somewhere saying that he's got a horse that has turned out to be a rig/not gelded properly and he didn't realise sooner?? i honestly think that you are to blame here- you obviously thought that the horse was a problem as you removed your other horses- so personally i would have done something about it sooner. clearly moving the mare was a possibility as she's now with a friend and so presumably has been moved??? sorry, thats not what you want to hear i guess.
 
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