Is a livery yard owner liable for the injury of two horses?

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No, I wouldn't either Burtie, and I have had horses injured there, but wouldn't even entertain the idea of claiming for the money, but in a recent convo with my YO she made it very clear that if any of our horses get injured in the fields then she IS covered. In the foal incident above, IMO, as the foal was uninsured (not the OP's fault either), I would consider it a reasonable use of the YOs insurance to pay out for vet fees.

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Surely the YO would still be out of pocket though? Even if their insurance premiums don't hike up, there must be an excess on such a policy? My vet fees excess is £200. Say we're talking about a relatively inexpensive DIY livery....that would be 10 weeks of livery money wiped off the income.

You say it's not the OP's fault that the foal was hurt (or did you mean not her fault that it wasn't insured due to it's age?) but it's not really the YO's fault either, is it?

Technically it's the foals fault for running about like a loon. Shame they can't personally indemnify themselves isn't it?
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Another point....if we as owners can't insure the foals until they are 30 days old, surely they'd be excluded from the YO's policy as well?
 
I am pretty sure that the insurance policy my YO has has no excess payment liability (I am going to quiz her about it later LOL!) The vet's fees would be covered even tho the foal was less than 30 days old as it is not a direct policy.

I meant that it was not the OP's fault that the foal was not insured. The foal was, however, under the care of the YO, and therefore she would be found liable for payment of veterinary attention IMO.
 
If you were a YO wouldn't you find it worrying to think that you are responsible for every little knock and scrape a horse on your yard gets itself into? I know I would!

If liveries comes to you thinking they can claim for every injury, they won't bother insuring their own animals and, will instead, just claim for everything from the YO.

Think how many people at your yard have had a vet out in the last 12 months....if all of those were to claim vet fees from your YO, consider how much her insurance premium would have risen this year....which would have meant livery bills rising or her going out of business.

Personally, either as a livery or a YO, I find it shocking that owners truly believe there is no longer such a thing as an accident and a third party (in this instance the Yo) always has to be accountable.

That's not aimed at you directly Weezy...but it is aimed at the people would would take advantage of your YO's insurance policy.

If the stables had collapsed on your horse's head or gone up in smoke.....then I could understand, and indeed would expect, liveries to be claiming for their animal's injury or death against the YO....but not routine run of the mill field accidents that all of us experience from time to time. THat's horses for you.

I would no longer have anyone on my property who didn't have insurance for their own horse for vet fees, not that intend on having any more liveries anyway. It's put me off for life worrying about the financial implications after reading this thread. £15 a week is just not worth the sleepness nights.
 
I would be intersted to know what the policy is - the only one I am familiar with is Care, Custody and Control, which may cover for the incident with the barb wire, but I am guessing the insurance company may not pay out as the wire was not part of the facility (i.e. it wasn't part of the field fencing and could have come from anywhere) but, say, had the horse injured itself on a broken wooden fence post, the CCC insurance would cover that. CCC wouldn't pay out for the foal, as CCC covers problems with faulty facilities (e.g. broken fence post) or actions by the YO (e.g. if she led the horse down a icy road and it fell) but not actions beyond her control (i.e. horses in a field) albeit on her property.
 
Patches - none of us would take the p and that is why she has never had to claim for it. As for having the vet out in the last year on my yard - zero! If an accident happens in a field and she is in charge of the horse then she is liable, that is why she has the insurance. If a horse is injured on a gate/fence post/stable then again, she would be deemed liable should anyone push it. We had a very, very long convo about it. When Splodge cut his shoulder and needed stitches (field) she offered to cover it on her insurance (I was away, he was on FL) but I said no, that I would cover it, as horses will be horses, but the policy was there should I have wanted to take her up on it. However, the rate of accidents is pretty much nil at our yard, as everything is very well maintained.

Emma I will ask
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All I know is that she explained that when I use FL my horses are covered for everything as they are under her care, when the horses are in the field or being handled. Believe me, she pays a LOT of money per month for the policy and it is overly comprehensive
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Oh yes, I know how much insurance costs (and can only imagine what premiums have done in the last 5 years!) We had the CCC insurance precisely for that reason, to cover ourselves for full and part liveries (we had public liability etc in addition, but the CCC meant we had that additional cover should something happen when one of our staff were leading, loading, etc, or if they injured themselves in a stable / field because fencing / door / gate etc. broke) However, because it didn't cover for 'horses will be horses' accidents outside our control (such as playing the fool charging around the field) we had built into the pt/f livery contracts that the horse had to be individually insured for vet expenses.
 
For the foal I would say that [****] happens - young horses are more fragile and maybe as it was under 30 days and uninsured it was a bit stupid to turn it out in a herd.

For the barb wire though. I ave read numerous posts n here over hte years about YO, Duty of Care etc etc. Someone describes a bad yard and everyone points out the YO had a duty of care to the liveries. To keep the yard safe and in a working order that wont result in injuries.
Therefore, I would say that the fields should be inspected, and anything dangerous removed.
If someone posts about a horse getting loose - folk all go on about how they should walk the fences and how its OUR duty to check them as the field owner is liable if the animal gets out etc - therefore the YO is responsible for the condition of the fencing and they should be checking it.
I know it is impossible to check an entire field for every little scrap - but if it was a substantial peice of barb wire and easily spotted then I'm sorry but I would - if it was me - be looking for the YO to pay for my vets bills.
When you go to see a yard, you don't ask to be shown round the fields. If you owned a yard would you let someone go in with the horses to check the fencing?? Probably not for fear of them getting hurt.

But..............you would need to figure out WHERE the piece of wire came from, and if it was noticeable enough to have been missed.
 
When I go to see yards, yes, I ask to see around the fields. I look at fencing, the water trough, poisonous plants, what trees are in and overhang the field, whether there are boggy patches, or if summer, evidence of boggy patches in winter, state of the grass, whether it has been poo picked. I think most horse owners do the same. I have never once been refused to look around the fields - I think it is normal to see where your horse will be spending its life, and I certainly would have no issues if someone asked to see our fields (and lots of the liveries did). I did go with them, mainly to answer questions, but they weren't wandering about willy nilly.
 
I also have Full Yard Insurance, inc Liability plus CCC. However a livery has to show that a YO was negligent & because of the negligence an injury was sustained. ie: If a horse careers round a field & crashes through a well maintained & erected "safe" (P&R) fence the YO will not be liable for any injury to a horse. If however the fence has broken & not repaired, & the YO continues to put horses in the field she WILL be liable for any injury suffered. I can only think in Diesel Dogs case that the horse was on more than DIY livery, If so it should have been noticed & brought to owners attention promptly or Veterinary treatment given before the tail was rubbed raw. I dont actually agree with any of it by the way but it is a fact of life nowadays.
 
It is also entirely possible that the insurance company sent a letter saying 'pay up' with no legal reason whatsoever, they will try and do this sometimes, as people see the letter head and assume they must do as it instructs.
 
No the yards not well run in fact it's an absolute joke and I will be leaving asap.

My gut feeling is the my three broodmares and foals were not running around the field at all it is a covenient excuse. My honest feeling is as the yo was turning my mares and foals out she was probably on her mobile phone which she is most of the time and was not paying attention I would imgaine that as she was trying to get a mare and foal into the field one of the others tried to come out of the gate at which point she probably started to panic waved her hands at them to stop them getting out of the field which in turn caused the foal to get it's head impailed on the gate catch. Something I will never be able to prove but my gut intstincts are normally right.

I have been on many yards from professional to diy and yes accients do happen but they can be minimised by good procedures and common sense something which is sadly lacking at this particular yard. And yes it is my own fault for leaving valuable animals in the care of someone who cannot be trusted or is responsible and I say this due to the lack of interest and slap dash care I have seen given to another livery on the yard and the general care the yo horse receives.

Realistically I could not be bothered to spend money on a legal case as there is no guarantee of winning and in general I would never consider taking legal action against a yo who I felt was responsible and trusted. In this case I feel the yard owner is irresponsible and really should not be left in sole charge of anyones horses I cannot write everything on the forum to give the full picture as I would be here all night.
 
Just clear another matter up I am not saying that anyone who has a horse on a livery yard should sue the yard owner everytime there is an accident that would be ridiculous. It is important for yard owners and liverys to have good relationships I have run yards myself had insurance and asked people to sign disclaimers and never had a problem with any of the owners mainly because they felt their horses were in capable hands and if something did happen would know it was an accident rather than negligence. Sadly in this case I don't believe it was just an accident and I think there are a lot of lies and covering up which I will never be able to prove.
 
I'd have no worries as I'd make sure I ran a professional yard and have done in the past with no problems. I run a small equestrian transport business and someone is just as likely to claim against me for that if their horse receives a knock, but at the end of the day as long as I believe I have minimised the risk of accident there is nothing more I can do if someone felt I was to blame they would probaly take action against me.
 
I actually find you very insulting as it was not a run of the mill accident and I pay a lot more than £15 a week and hopefully the yard will go out of business as the owner is incapable of looking after horses in responsible manor and I'd hate anyone else to move to the yard and have horses involved in accidents that could be avoided!

I've put a post on the forum to find out if anyone knows where I stand legally and give some constructive feedback on the legal side of things not judge the situation or me unfortunately unless you know me the yard and yard owner you are not in a position to judge!
 
Well as I generally deal with valuable competion horses if they are going balistic in the field then yes I do get them in from the field before they kill themselves and have done when I have had liveries in the past as I don't want to be responsible for injury to them.

You have to be able to deferentiate between a horse letting of a bit of steam and then settling to a horse who is going nuts and endangering himself there's a difference.
 
I agree with you Amymay my mares and foals were turned out daily together in a small paddock it's probably only around an acre in general they are very settled and don't gallop around that's what concerns me it's out of character for them to go out in the paddock and go nuts something is not adding up here.
 
Surely if you have run yards yourself then you know the answer to this question? And also that disclaimers aren't worth the paper they are written on.
Just a thought.
 
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