galaxy
Well-Known Member
Amy-b all that is needed to dock a litter is a gun licence and a vet willing to do it.
Is docking of non-working dogs still illegal?
- Thread starter marmalade76
- Start date
DiNozzo
Well-Known Member
We suspect it was done very illegally. The dog was entire and used for breeding, but was not a Yorkie, and we did not press for papers. We just wanted the poor creature out. On the way home we called 101 to report a possible puppy farm. Certainly not reliable breeders in anyway.
stormox
Well-Known Member
The trouble is- a breeder breeds a litter of springers, say. Docking has to be done at 2-3 days. At that age, 8 weeks before theyre even advertised, how does the breeder know which ones will go to working homes, and which as pets? So the whole litter is docked.
I think legally docked dogs should be able to be shown, at Crufts, the 'Gamekeepers Class' which is meant for working gundogs only, docked dogs under a certain age aren't allowed to compete. So the class is full of old codgers and retired dogs, not the up and coming young dogs who should be the ones advertising their kennel!
I think legally docked dogs should be able to be shown, at Crufts, the 'Gamekeepers Class' which is meant for working gundogs only, docked dogs under a certain age aren't allowed to compete. So the class is full of old codgers and retired dogs, not the up and coming young dogs who should be the ones advertising their kennel!
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RunToEarth
Well-Known Member
its such a flawed system. In my experience the best picker-uppers are people and their dogs who don't actually shoot. Granted, most of them have licences but should one go in hand with the other? I don't have a gun licence, but I do most of the working of our dog (non docked breed) - what happens if I want three docked ESS for working legitimately and I don't have a gun licence?
Also, I get confused with the stance on working terriers, are ratting dogs allowed to be docked? They certainly still are being.
twiggy2
Well-Known Member
One of my vets shoots and follows the hounds, he currently has 2 working dogs and will not dock unless there is a medical reason for doing so, he will dock short if a tail is damaged due to the difficulties in getting a already damaged tail to heal if you cannot stop it knocking on stuff.
As a practice puppies have never been docked as routine as neither partner and other vets have not been allowed to.
If a vet who spends many days out hunting can see there is no need to cut tails of dogs just because it is tradition then I am with them.
Over the years some of my dogs have been beating, all that choose to have been ratters, the odd one has decided to enter itself on fox (!), some have been rabbiters and hare catchers, if they damaged a tail and there were any complications with healing then it would come off but until that day they will and to =date have kept a full tail.
As a practice puppies have never been docked as routine as neither partner and other vets have not been allowed to.
If a vet who spends many days out hunting can see there is no need to cut tails of dogs just because it is tradition then I am with them.
Over the years some of my dogs have been beating, all that choose to have been ratters, the odd one has decided to enter itself on fox (!), some have been rabbiters and hare catchers, if they damaged a tail and there were any complications with healing then it would come off but until that day they will and to =date have kept a full tail.
stormox
Well-Known Member
I think it depends a lot on the shoot,Twiggy, whether the tails get damaged. Moors, fields no problem. But we pick up in dense woods and seriously heavy cover. Without exception, EVERY undocked dog we have ever tried continually damaged their tails,so much so they could only do 2-3 days without having to have a few weeks off. Theres no problem with docked dogs (except for those ridiculously long 'just the tip off' trials length tails).
GirlFriday
Well-Known Member
A lot of puppies are 'ordered' before they are ready to go so, as with one of the posters above, it should be perfectly possible to only dock those likely to go to work.
I don't know enough about working dogs to comment on the practicalities but I do know several people whose dogs live in cities and will never work who wanted docking for the tradition. On those grounds I have to say the showing ban makes sense... If idiots like the people I know har grown up with docked dogs being excluded from shows the feel of 'tradition' about it would definitely decrease.
Sometimes, like with the laws on seat belts, a social change can happen within a generation through legislation. With status symbol/ cosmetic docking I'd have to think that would be a good thing.
I don't know enough about working dogs to comment on the practicalities but I do know several people whose dogs live in cities and will never work who wanted docking for the tradition. On those grounds I have to say the showing ban makes sense... If idiots like the people I know har grown up with docked dogs being excluded from shows the feel of 'tradition' about it would definitely decrease.
Sometimes, like with the laws on seat belts, a social change can happen within a generation through legislation. With status symbol/ cosmetic docking I'd have to think that would be a good thing.
Thistle
Well-Known Member
Puppies are docked at 3 days, far to early for them to have been choses by new owners.
At 3 days it's a quick snip a squeak and back with mum to recover. Docking an older dogs tail is a full operation with a lengthy recovery.
Maesfen
Extremely Old Nag!
It's not only that they should be penalized for showing but forced to endure pain when they are working, doing the job they were bred for. It's a very cruel law that allows a dog to work but not give him the protection he needs by allowing docking which would alleviate pain, discomfort and distress.
Karran
Well-Known Member
The whole docking thing interests me.
Mrs Spaniel is working lines, yet has a full tail. Being a rehome I have no idea of her lines but make the assumption that she came from a breeder who didn't work their dogs.
I love it as she's always on the go, always wagging it and yes she knocks it hard against walls, doors and anything unwise enough to be in the way and the stories i've heard about tail splitting does worry me but its never been an issue. Is it more a working dog thing than something someone like me who has her as an active pet needs to worry about?
Equally interesting to me is that there are two working cocker pups at flyball. One 7 months, the other 6. Younger pup came from an agility breeder and has full tail. Older from a working background and has a 3/4 tail. Would/could agility pup be deemed as a working dog and been legally docked?
I've been hugely converted to working cockers and would like another in the future but i'd prefer a fully tailed one because i personally think it looks better and have never had any issues with her tail.
Mrs Spaniel is working lines, yet has a full tail. Being a rehome I have no idea of her lines but make the assumption that she came from a breeder who didn't work their dogs.
I love it as she's always on the go, always wagging it and yes she knocks it hard against walls, doors and anything unwise enough to be in the way and the stories i've heard about tail splitting does worry me but its never been an issue. Is it more a working dog thing than something someone like me who has her as an active pet needs to worry about?
Equally interesting to me is that there are two working cocker pups at flyball. One 7 months, the other 6. Younger pup came from an agility breeder and has full tail. Older from a working background and has a 3/4 tail. Would/could agility pup be deemed as a working dog and been legally docked?
I've been hugely converted to working cockers and would like another in the future but i'd prefer a fully tailed one because i personally think it looks better and have never had any issues with her tail.
blackcob
🖖
There is nothing however to stop a person from producing a gun licence or some other bit of permissible evidence, having a litter docked on that basis and then selling them to an agility or pet home. The whole process is a bit farcical to be honest!