Is field bindweed poisonous to horses?

[Marigold4]

I've asked this question before but didn't get a conclusive answer last time. So I thought I have another go at picking your brains. The type of bindweed I have has small pink or white flowers. I think it is Convolvulus arvensis. Vet doesn't know if it's poisonous or not. From what I can find out on the internet, the plant contains alkaloids which I know ragwort contain as well. I also found a study where it was fed to mice and they died - poor mice! But I can't find anyone saying it's poisonous to horses. The reason I ask is that my yearling had a funny moment and we had blood tests done. Blood test came back everything fine except for moderately raised liver enzymes. I am having other horses tested too. I know it's incredibly difficult to find the source of liver issues, but I can't think of anything else. Field is rigorously picked for ragwort. My horses had raised liver enzymes before (when I asked last time) but we never got to the bottom of it and eventually bloods went back to normal.

Does anyone knows where I can find the answer? Someone must know somewhere. Maybe Purbee can point me in the right direction.

Is if worth having my haylage tested for mycotoxins? If so, anyone know where I can get this done? Any other thoughts anyone?

 

[honetpot]

I had a quick google,
in this it says it causes colic,

Meadow Bindweed

Meadow Bindweed is a member of the Morning Glory or Convolvulaceae family and contains poisonous alkaloids including pseudotropine. It can be a real problem for other plants as it can outgrow most of them and takes all the nutrients, sunlight and water for itself.

www.wildfooduk.com

in this its says it has some potentally toxic componants to humans,

Field Bindweed - A Foraging Guide to Its Food, Medicine and Other Uses

Home > Plants > Field bindweed Convolvulus arvensis Convolvulaceae Cultivated land, dunes, hedgerows, roadsides, short turf, wasteland. Reliable resources for accurate botanical photo identification…

www.eatweeds.co.uk

I suppose it depends how much they are eating.

 

[Burnttoast]

Plant alkaloids come in different forms and the type bindweed contains (tropane alkaloids) are not the same as those in ragwort (pyrrolizidine alkaloids) and are not as far as I know directly hepatotoxic. Eating a lot of it might cause gastric issues but by a lot I mean several kg dry weight. The mice in that study I think were fed a diet of 100% bindweed, which just seems to demonstrate that the dose makes the poison.

Forageplus test for mycotoxins in hay afaik. Aflatoxins that can develop in hay do/can cause liver damage so I'd be wanting to rule that out particularly given the erratic haymaking weather we seem to have these days.

 

[TheMule]

It is mildly toxic- mine generally pick around it when grazing, but I do have a bit in my Haylage (which I try to cut before it gets too extensive, and before it flowers)

 

[Marigold4]

I had a quick google,
in this it says it causes colic,

Meadow Bindweed

Meadow Bindweed is a member of the Morning Glory or Convolvulaceae family and contains poisonous alkaloids including pseudotropine. It can be a real problem for other plants as it can outgrow most of them and takes all the nutrients, sunlight and water for itself.

www.wildfooduk.com

in this its says it has some potentally toxic componants to humans,

Field Bindweed - A Foraging Guide to Its Food, Medicine and Other Uses

Home > Plants > Field bindweed Convolvulus arvensis Convolvulaceae Cultivated land, dunes, hedgerows, roadsides, short turf, wasteland. Reliable resources for accurate botanical photo identification…

www.eatweeds.co.uk

I suppose it depends how much they are eating.

Thank you very much for looking this up. It's difficult to tell how much they are eating. We have quite a lot of it in the summer months and I guess they could be eating it up with the grass. Tricky to tell. I had it sprayed last year but there's still quite a lot around.

 

[Marigold4]

Plant alkaloids come in different forms and the type bindweed contains (tropane alkaloids) are not the same as those in ragwort (pyrrolizidine alkaloids) and are not as far as I know directly hepatotoxic. Eating a lot of it might cause gastric issues but by a lot I mean several kg dry weight. The mice in that study I think were fed a diet of 100% bindweed, which just seems to demonstrate that the dose makes the poison.

Forageplus test for mycotoxins in hay afaik. Aflatoxins that can develop in hay do/can cause liver damage so I'd be wanting to rule that out particularly given the erratic haymaking weather we seem to have these days.

Thank you, Burnttoast. That's really useful. My yearling had a very strange episode on Sat night/Sunday morning. Very confused, ataxic, fast heart and breathing rate. Got the vet out straight away and he administered finadyne which pretty much sorted her out. Monday much better, still a little ataxic. Today, right as rain, cantering around the field bucking. Blood tests and other tests just show moderately raised liver enzymes which I don't think enough to cause the ataxic episode. Still I need to get on top of the liver enzymes anyway.

I looked on the forageplus website and analysing the haylage would be £270. And same again for the grass. I buy Country Haylage in bags so I guess no guarantee that if one bay doesn't have mycotoxins, another one might. Do you think it is still worth testing the haylage? And the grass?

 

[Burnttoast]

Thank you, Burnttoast. That's really useful. My yearling had a very strange episode on Sat night/Sunday morning. Very confused, ataxic, fast heart and breathing rate. Got the vet out straight away and he administered finadyne which pretty much sorted her out. Monday much better, still a little ataxic. Today, right as rain, cantering around the field bucking. Blood tests and other tests just show moderately raised liver enzymes which I don't think enough to cause the ataxic episode. Still I need to get on top of the liver enzymes anyway.

I looked on the forageplus website and analysing the haylage would be £270. And same again for the grass. I buy Country Haylage in bags so I guess no guarantee that if one bay doesn't have mycotoxins, another one might. Do you think it is still worth testing the haylage? And the grass?

The main risks with haylage are storage (holes in the packaging) and bales being open too long - haylage in those circumstances is more prone than hay to moulds. If those aren't relevant here first port of call would be your supplier, for advice at least. You can feed mycosorb as a 'just in case' measure. Are there any other unknown plants in your field? Any possibility of liver fluke?

 

[Marigold4]

The main risks with haylage are storage (holes in the packaging) and bales being open too long - haylage in those circumstances is more prone than hay to moulds. If those aren't relevant here first port of call would be your supplier, for advice at least. You can feed mycosorb as a 'just in case' measure. Are there any other unknown plants in your field? Any possibility of liver fluke?

We've not had a problem with any mould in the haylage or open bags. I changed from Marksway because there was often white mould in it. This haylage is less wet and always smells good. Interestingly, we did a blood test on the yearling's mother who eats exactly the same food - grass, haylage, handful of Baileys no. 14 - and her liver enzymes are perfectly fine - so I guess it's not the food. There is a new plant that has been appearing in my field - I'll take a photo and try and identify it. Maybe the yearling eats it and her mum doesn't.

I've rented the field for 6 years now. It did briefly have sheep on it just before my lease started, but I think that's too long ago for liver fluke?

 

[Fieldlife]

Thank you, Burnttoast. That's really useful. My yearling had a very strange episode on Sat night/Sunday morning. Very confused, ataxic, fast heart and breathing rate. Got the vet out straight away and he administered finadyne which pretty much sorted her out. Monday much better, still a little ataxic. Today, right as rain, cantering around the field bucking. Blood tests and other tests just show moderately raised liver enzymes which I don't think enough to cause the ataxic episode. Still I need to get on top of the liver enzymes anyway.

I looked on the forageplus website and analysing the haylage would be £270. And same again for the grass. I buy Country Haylage in bags so I guess no guarantee that if one bay doesn't have mycotoxins, another one might. Do you think it is still worth testing the haylage? And the grass?

Probably not worth testing the haylage. The problem with testing hay / haylage for any toxic plant including ragwort or mycotoxins, is you only need a small amount to be toxic, and when testing bales, you can easily test parts without the poison plant in it. And no one will test whole bales.

 

[Marigold4]

Probably not worth testing the haylage. The problem with testing hay / haylage for any toxic plant including ragwort or mycotoxins, is you only need a small amount to be toxic, and when testing bales, you can easily test parts without the poison plant in it. And no one will test whole bales.

Thanks for your reply. At least that will save me lots of money!

 

[Burnttoast]

Thanks for your reply. At least that will save me lots of money!

Moulds don't behave like plants, though. They can spread through a bale rapidly and without being readily visible - that's why it's advised that you don't just cut off the mouldy end of a loaf, because there will be mycelium throughout by the time you see mould forming. You could try changing the source of your forage, as a cheap alternative.

 

[Marigold4]

I will probably do change haylage source but less convinced it's environmental now my other horse's blood test has come back fine for liver enzymes.

 

[Burnttoast]

I will probably do change haylage source but less convinced it's environmental now my other horse's blood test has come back fine for liver enzymes.

idiopathic liver damage does happen unfortunately.