Is food the only answer?

Fools Motto

Fools Motto

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Imported from Ireland, young 4 year old plants just before the field gateway going out and coming in. Apparently he is parelli trained, but no amount of leading nicely works - he plants. Doesn't matter if he has a friend or not. We're working on bridling him, but haven't yet mastered that outside the stable. (nervous of bit on teeth it seems) He IS broken to ride though, but so new here (2 weeks) and has a cough so very limited with what we've done with him, just general handling (quite rude and bolshy, but improving. Food is the option I might go for next, - perhaps in a bucket? but he's a bit bitey when he's cross at being told what to do! I think he's a like a spoilt child.
He had to have the broom up his bum going out earlier....
BTW, he's fine leading around the yard, it's just the gateway... and each time the gateway gets further away from the actual gate!
 
most likely an arsey spoilt child resenting being told what to do. However as you cannot be sure of that I would go for food. Having got him going through the gateway for a while I would then move onto in hand training on the actual gateway problem. There are lots of possibilities he got hurt going through a gateway by either a horse, person or broom.

As long as other horses were not going to come out I would turn him loose in the yard, put the bucket in the field and walk away. Reverse the procedure to get him in.



I had one new pony who couldn't manage to come in through an 8ft gateway. He wasn't being difficult just couldn't get it or he had previously been hurt. Took him quite a while to work it out.
 
Unlikely a young horse is an 'arsey spoilt child'. You are right to think more of how can I reward him for responding in the way you want.
More likely he is in a new home with new handlers and is planting when he gets overloaded or doesn't want to go the same direction his leader is. Obviously your job is to convince him going with you is nicer than not and a good idea for the future.
I would do some groundwork - practicisng leading, through, around objects/gateways. I would use a pressure headcollar and choose areas I know he can 'win' at e.g. where he is happy to lead to reinforce the fact going with you is better than not. Then when I go to the field I would probably use a combination of pressure headcollar, a second person to push with a brush from behind if safe, and food as needed and do it so many times it becomes easy.
If he is planting have you also considered allowing more time to see if he wil come eventually and therefore planting becomes a boring game?
 
Sounds like a remembered bad experience with gateways. If it’s an electric fence gateway, make it nice and wide and then reduce as he gains confidence. If a solid gate, ensure its wide open and stationary.
The biteyness sounds like fear rather than spoilt brat ime- seeking reassurance that you’re there and going to prevent him being eaten by the wolves. Firm handling and more settling in time should help.

ETA: I’ve never inherited/ worked with a youngster that’s had parelli/ NH input and considered it even slightly helpful
? sorry, you may have some ‘undoing’ to do.
 
My youngster doesn’t like the gateway as it is slippery. I showed her where to tread and she is happier now. To get moving options are: treats, back them in the direction you want to go, or spin in walk circles a few times then ask to go forwards again..repeat each time they stop.
 
Update, mastered the gateway and 90% leading very well. Goes on the walker, being ridden under saddle, fab out hacking, very green in the school, but to be expected. Should be hacking all the time for a few months as soon as shod. Can pick up all feet.
Problem now is, that he bites.... not in a vicious way at all, he's very nosey and wants everything in his mouth, you, leadrope, stable door bolt, bucket, skip, anything and everything. Its like he's playing, and the more you grab, pull, punch, knock said item out of the way the quciker and more determined he is to get 'it'. So, without joining in his game, what do you suggest we can do? Obviously, no one wants to be bitten, but his bite count is increasing rapidly, so he's got the upper hand at the moment!
PS - Found out he has never been with other horses since weaning so he doesn't know boundries set by a boss horse. Almost like he was hand reared....??
 
Fools Motto said:
Update, mastered the gateway and 90% leading very well. Goes on the walker, being ridden under saddle, fab out hacking, very green in the school, but to be expected. Should be hacking all the time for a few months as soon as shod. Can pick up all feet.
Problem now is, that he bites.... not in a vicious way at all, he's very nosey and wants everything in his mouth, you, leadrope, stable door bolt, bucket, skip, anything and everything. Its like he's playing, and the more you grab, pull, punch, knock said item out of the way the quciker and more determined he is to get 'it'. So, without joining in his game, what do you suggest we can do? Obviously, no one wants to be bitten, but his bite count is increasing rapidly, so he's got the upper hand at the moment!
PS - Found out he has never been with other horses since weaning so he doesn't know boundries set by a boss horse. Almost like he was hand reared....??
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My youngun was terribly bitey when he came. Everything had to be tested in his mouth. I didn't make a big deal of it and let him hold the end of the leadrope as we walked along and as he's grown up he's grown out of it.
OPs horse needs a pal to play with though.
 
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I would aim to not give him the opportunity. Tie up to groom, tack up, muck out etc etc so he can't reach things. Do not feed tit bits by hand. Ignore and push gently away if he gets too close, in your face etc without fuss but absolutely consistently. Hopefully he will grow out of it like puppies and children do! Your comment that he has not had equine company since weaning is a bit worrying though. It sounds as though he desperately wants to play. Perhaps he has missed out on the whole learning by play stage of development? Does he have company he can play with in the field?
 
Fools Motto said:
Update, mastered the gateway and 90% leading very well. Goes on the walker, being ridden under saddle, fab out hacking, very green in the school, but to be expected. Should be hacking all the time for a few months as soon as shod. Can pick up all feet.
Problem now is, that he bites.... not in a vicious way at all, he's very nosey and wants everything in his mouth, you, leadrope, stable door bolt, bucket, skip, anything and everything. Its like he's playing, and the more you grab, pull, punch, knock said item out of the way the quciker and more determined he is to get 'it'. So, without joining in his game, what do you suggest we can do? Obviously, no one wants to be bitten, but his bite count is increasing rapidly, so he's got the upper hand at the moment!
PS - Found out he has never been with other horses since weaning so he doesn't know boundries set by a boss horse. Almost like he was hand reared....??
Click to expand...
do you have an alpha mare, if so i would consider mix grazing with her after appropriate introductions, one way to learn manners?
 
Presume you've had a good qualified, experienced dentist look at his teeth?
They could be changing at that age and he's chewing (or looking to chew to ease them).
I had one who's mouth was blue inside in places and dentist said it wasn't uncommon for that level of bruising changing teeth.

I put logs in the youngsters stable to give him something sensible to chew on.

If he's just being a pain then dull tedious repetition of stopping him biting people. I found flapping and waving to make them back away from me (rather than pushing them - i.e. their choice to move not me making them) helped.

I have one that wants to hold the lead rope all the time in his mouth - I admit I just let him - I'm picking my battles (clearly different if he's biting people)
 
is it biting or grabbing to chew. The former needs swiftly dealing with the latter needs accommodating until he grows out of it a metal curry come might discourage it a bit so he bites something nasty and not something soft. Chew toys are possibly one way to deal with chewing but not sure if they increase or decrease the problem. Had one on livery that had a blanky type thing it sucked when tied up or lead but it drove me nuts trying to find it or handle it when stinky
 
Charlie's a bit similar (he's rising 8 now!) although I think he's been walloped for it in the past as he's beside himself if he thinks he's caught you, as if he's expecting a beating. He never tries to bite people he's just after clothes etc, the worst are hoody strings. Once he gets those he really doesn't want to let go.

He has one treat when I catch him and nothing else by hand as otherwise he's always in your pockets or hassling you. When I'm dealing with him and he gets a bit chewy I just give him a firm no and push his head away but in a very controlled way - a definite hands on him fairly gently, then push rather than hit him away as otherwise he's at the back of his stable quivering. A well timed pointy elbow in the way helps too as he can't work out where it's come from but I've not really moved so he doesn't think it's me doing that to him either. You develop a bit of a sixth sense of when and how to deploy the elbow

He is getting better with being told off so if he does accidentally catch my skin a high pitched "ouch" usually does the trick. He looks suitably chastened without being petrified!
 
My horse did this when he was younger - just like exploring things with his mouth and I fed him treats by hand but now that he has grown out of it - he isnt bity at all and very gentle with treats. I did the opposite though - if he wanted to have something in his mouth, I just gave him an old leadrope, a dog toy or a bit of stick or whatever - he was delighted to be occupied and then was happy with anything else that was done with him! He was never punished for it so it was never an issue.

They are young, some behaviours are just baby-ish and natural and they grown out of it!

Now he is very sweet and inquisitive still which is just his personality and I love it - wouldnt want him any other way!
 
Mine grew out of it thankfully.

There's a Warwick Schiller thingy that came up on FB a while back where he plays with the mouth of bitey horses. ETA - I didn't actually watch closely so there might be more to the playing
 
I find most grow out of it with a stern ‘Ahhh’ growl and a swiftly defensive elbow if they swing round to nip. I never feed from the hand, using a bucket to catch in from the field which I think helps to curb nipping.
 
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