Is H&H forum like real life....comments made...

[charlie76]

recently I have been shocked by the amount of people on this forum ( and others) that comment in a very negative and some times down ride rude way to people photos ect that they post. Whether it be comments of the horses way of going, size of rider, size of horse, too fat, too thin, schooling issues etc ect when the OP has never even asked for the comments.
A lot of time what may seem to you as CC, in actual fact comes across as really quite rude.
Would any of you, in real life, actually march up to a fellow livery, rider at a show or a member of the general public and inflict your point of view, no matter how rude it comes across, on them?
I would think not, you would prob get an earful back!

If some one asks for CC then maybe,but otherwise, maybe think about how you say something before it its said.
I for one, have been put off posting pics on here.

 

[BBH]

I think there is a balance to be struck and no-one wants an untruthful answer but its how something is phrased.

For example if I post a picture asking if my mare is suitable to breed from or my pony will be a county champion and clearly they aren't I would be done no favours by people saying yes how wonderful they are.

I kinda think if people are delicate flowers they shouldn't post photo's because anything open to the general public will illicit many views.

However I don't think rudeness is necessary.

 

[dressagecrazy]

I wouldnt march up to someone in RL so i dont do it on here as a rule unless i see something that im really not happy with. Again in RL if i see something im really not happy with then yes i will say something.

I actually dont think HHO is that far away from RL in the horse world tbh, on Friday someone called one of my horses Rude & bargy with no manners.

The horse in question was an uber excited 4yo who was playing me up slightly on the ground after he had just got off the wagon, i put him in his place & got on with it. Said person was then trying to tell me how i should be handling him, i just said that said horse is never like this & was just overly excited & i had put him on Propell so it was probably that.

I did want to slap said person though as the horse is darn right perfect 99% of the time he is a 4yo for gods sake. But the person felt the need to put me down in front of everyone & be quite rude about my near as dam it perfect 4yo.
The horseworld is full of "experts" ive learned to switch off now but it's the same online.

 

[TableDancer]

As with everything, there is a balance to be struck IF you post a question about a horse/rider/jump whatever you should be prepared for all answers, positive and negative. You might not like some people's opinions but they are entitled to them - if you disagree with them ignore them That said, in replying in the negative to such posts we owe it to ourselves and those around us to think carefully how we phrase our replies to try and be constructive and not to cause offence/hurt unnecessarily... I can only think of one occasion that I can remember where I was rather personally rude to someone on this Forum, she probably remembers it too , and I've felt a bit guilty ever since - she caught me at a bad moment and I felt she was being unfairly critical of someone else but, as always, she was entitled to her views Think we are over it now

BUT my own opinion is that if someone has just posted happy smilling pics of a competition, lesson, new foal, whatever and not invited opinions, asked for cc or asked any questions, we should only comment if we have something nice to say (sometimes I just say "Well done" which is fairly ambiguous, could mean "Well done for staying on when your position is so lousy" ) and if, not, just move on without commenting. We'll still be damned for viewing without commenting but hey ho

 

[ester]

I would say in RL if I thought what was happening was detrimental to the health of their equine.

All other stuff I would only respond if asked.

 

[VGM]

i would not comment on something unless someone was riding around a horse with a broken leg or a gaping wound or some such other act of inhumanity i would not comment on its weight conformation size of rider or what ever . would you walk up and tell a fat person in the street how huge they are and that they will die from various horrible illnesses and try and act as a pti and nutritionist in one go ? i think not so why should i do it to someone elses horse

 

[Baggybreeches]

I tend to speak as I find in all areas, but I would never be overtly rude or thoughtless. I am by far one of the less eloquent posters but I would actually delete something before posting if I couldn't make it sound right. Even with constructive critiscm there is a way to deliver it and I think being nice to the recipient makes them much more likely to take the advice on board (thats just human nature).

 

[MissSBird]

I think the forum probably does reflect what people are thinking in real life - the difference is that people arn't afraid to speak their mind behind the comfort of a computer screen. It is a veil between the recipient of the comment and the writer.

There are some on the forums who are cruel to be deliberatly malicious, but I think that's not an unrealistic reflection of real life. It's just in real life most people have gained enough experience at judging personalities to stay away and avoid the society of people who tend to be malicious and cruel. On a forum you don't have that luxury.

On the forum I try and be careful to only say things I would happily say to the person's face, with others listening in. If anything, I'm more cautious about expressing my opinion on a forum than in real life.

 

[LEC]

The problem is you do not know the full background on anything so how can you really truly comment unless its about the riders position as simpler to solve and a little more straightforward. Drives me nuts when things descend into chaos and sniping.

 

[nikkimariet]

No. I doubt many people on here would dare say the things they say to that persons face.

In real life it is also a lot easier to ignore the sniping and bitching that goes on on here.

People are so ignorant of the full story on here and jump in with their two pennies worth with no regard for circumstance or explanation.

 

[RedsandStud]

As a horse owner and a Shetland pony breeder I've experienced two very different groups of people in the horse world... they all have their faults but the 'big horse' people are some of the cliqueiest, rudest and most judgemental people I have ever met in my life! When I've truly had enough of it all I find comfort in the fact that I can spend time with an altogether more forgiving bunch of people. I think breeders are slightly less inclined to live in each others pockets and this breathing space makes for better relationships all round.

Online bitching is pretty much the same but people have the added protection of hurling insults from a keyboard and ultimately don't suffer the consequences.... as well as the fact they can become experts on everything without having to prove it!!!

I have a 14.3hh cob and a young girl has been out and tried him in our school a few times with a view to taking him on loan. If she was to take him she was considering keeping him on livery at the local yard. The other day her mother was stopped in passing by a client of said yard. Said client went on to say to the mother that my horse 'was a kicker and a biter, would upset the other horses and wouldn't be welcome on the yard' (my horse has been abused in the past and as a result has 'issues', the early days he tried his luck and nipped a few times, he has also kicked out and made contact ONCE in the 3 years we've owned him and has never done it since.) ... it then transpired that she'd had this conversation with the YO and they'd had a nice little bitchfest at the expense of me and my horse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To say that I was gutted is a huge understatement

IMHO faaar too many people have forgotten that they have their horses for the love of the animal and the enjoyment of it!

Rant over
amen!!!

 

[PorkChop]

I liken it to texting - sometimes it can be hard to phrase the written word to reflect how you would say it face to face

However there are a minority that post to be controversial and inflammatory.

Those that matter dont mind and those that mind dont matter

 

[TableDancer]

Those that matter dont mind and those that mind dont matter

Oi!! I think someone has a monopoly over that (extremely appropriate) phrase and she's on holiday so can't claim it Quite right though...

I've only just waded through the thread that prompted this one so when I posted earlier I naively thought it was just a general comment I have to confess to giggling when I saw the way it was going, but that's easy for me when it's not my thread. It's a bit like watching the Gladiators in Ancient Rome - at least I imagine so, I'm old but not that old - sort of entertaining if you can forget the suffering that's going on below the surface...

Personally, I think that's a good example of a thread where my rule of "Only comment if you've something nice to say" should apply, but bluntly speaking, and I'm not really sure why, NM and PS seem to attract strong feelings, both positive and negative, on here so I guess there were always going to be some people quick to wade in. They'll use the welfare argument to justify their words but seems pretty unnecessarily interventionist... (Obv the pony is too fat but nobody disagrees with that - uber cute though ) I think there has been the odd occasion when NM and/or PS have posted some un-asked for "CC" so perhaps people have seen it as an opportunity for payback time but, tbf, it isn't the person I'm thinking of who has commented so who knows. It does seem a shame that a post meant to be a bit of a giggle has degenerated into a catfight

 

[TarrSteps]

Oi!! I think someone has a monopoly over that (extremely appropriate) phrase and she's on holiday so can't claim it Quite right though...

Yeah, Dr Seuss. And he's dead.

There is something called "internet intoxication" where posting on the internet lowers people's inhibitions as if they'd had a few drinks. I think there is something to it - I don't think people post stuff they wouldn't THINK but I do think they are more inclined to post things they wouldn't necessary say without a dose of Dutch courage.

I'm completely going with Flower's mother (often incorrectly attributed to Bambi's mother ) and TD on this. What's the point of commenting negatively if the person on the other end clearly isn't looking for that feedback? And there's nothing wrong with manners.

On the other hand, I don't really see why people post photos and don't at least entertain the idea that someone out there might have something negative to say. Okay, people at shows/on yards don't necessarily say it to the person's face but we've ALL stood along the rail and passed judgement. That's not horsey people, that's people. Although horsey people do seem particularly inclined.

Where it starts to confuse me is when people get in trouble for NOT commenting. I hardly comment on anything unless someone asks an actual question about one of my many areas of interest or posts information I know is untrue/unfair AND I'm feeling particularly butt-in-ski-ish. But I've been taken to task for NOT commenting, thereby presumably implying I have nothing nice to say when really it's because I don't have anything to say.

Anyhooo, back to my Gloucester Pimms with strawberries and mint . . .

 

[glamourpuss]

The day that I am totally perfect in my riding and horse care is the day I will criticise what others do.

I'm currently clawing myself back from the hugest loss of confidence ever and i know first hand what effect a 'throw away' comment can have on a persons self esteem.

I think SEVERAL people (especially those who got all 'holier than' on Nikki's thread) should *think* about how they would feel to receive those comments. Just because it's on the internet doesn't make it any less hurtful.
There are always ways and means of getting a point across and being rude isn't one of them.

This thread is really actually very interesting. I'm currently reading 'How to leave Twitter' and Grace Dent talks in that about how Twitter (and the internet) has given a voice to people who are painfully shy and unable to show how funny and clever they are IRL....unfortunatley it also appears to give a louder platform to those that should learn when to button it ( the last sentence was from me not GD BTW )

 

[Broodle]

I think the idea of "internet intoxication" is fascinating, and rings very true. It's a bit like the type of 'national outrage' that the tabloids like to whip up - most of the mob didn't even realise they were outraged until it was pointed out to them

On here, it seems to me that a rude comment can go one of two ways - it can prompt 'now now, that was uncalled for' replies or 'yes, quite right, just what I thought too' replies, the latter coming under the "internet intoxication" category I think. I think most posters can probably brush aside one rude comment, especially if someone else points out how rude it is, it's when they come in droves that it is excruciating as a bystander, nevermind how bad it must be as the original poster.

I don't post much at all, and hardly ever about me and my horse. That's partly because my ego is a little too fragile to take a battering on here, and partly because I would worry about those who know me in real life having a laugh behind my back about what I'd posted. But that's because I am full of self doubt. I am full of admiration for those who are, unlike me, brave and confident enough to put their highs and lows up here for all to see.

 

[nikkimariet]

Personally, I think that's a good example of a thread where my rule of "Only comment if you've something nice to say" should apply, but bluntly speaking, and I'm not really sure why, NM and PS seem to attract strong feelings, both positive and negative, on here so I guess there were always going to be some people quick to wade in. They'll use the welfare argument to justify their words but seems pretty unnecessarily interventionist... (Obv the pony is too fat but nobody disagrees with that - uber cute though ) I think there has been the odd occasion when NM and/or PS have posted some un-asked for "CC" so perhaps people have seen it as an opportunity for payback time but, tbf, it isn't the person I'm thinking of who has commented so who knows. It does seem a shame that a post meant to be a bit of a giggle has degenerated into a catfight

It is a shame. It was only meant to be lighthearted, given the crappy time both me and PS have been having. HHO has taken a comedy nosedive!

Guilty as charged on the CC debacle. I hold my hands up to that, but it should never have gone/ended the way it did and some users who got involved never should have said what they said.

And tbh....I was waiting, very tensely, for a certain 3 people to comment....But to no avail. There's still time!

 

[MegaBeast]

Having just read through the thread in question I am pretty much speechless as to the responses it got. It's a shame that people have to qualify pretty much every breath they take in here these days.

Unfortunately I think people on here can be very blunt and to the point without considering the effect their words may have, and without fully reading/understanding what they are posting about. In "real life" you wouldn't march up to a total stranger and criticise them or their horse to their faces. You may make snide comments to the person you're with, and I'll freely admit to doing this, but you wouldn't do it to their face! Being behind a computer screen doesn't make it okay! However on here it it's seen as okay to openly and often rudely criticise strangers.

I would like to add that there is also a lot of constructive criticism given on here, and it definitely outweighs the abusive however there has recently been quite a bit of bitchiness in CR of the likes that is normally seen in NL, and a lot of it seems to come from people who aren't regular posters in CR. Surely CC should be just that and give ways to improve, not just slate what is wrong.

I think a lot of "thoughts" get spoken aloud on the computer, and with typing your replies it's all too easy to loose intonation, facial expressions and the real meaning behind what's being said.

 

[glamourpuss]

Having just read through the thread in question I am pretty much speechless as to the responses it got. It's a shame that people have to qualify pretty much every breath they take in here these days.

Unfortunately I think people on here can be very blunt and to the point without considering the effect their words may have, and without fully reading/understanding what they are posting about. In "real life" you wouldn't march up to a total stranger and criticise them or their horse to their faces. You may make snide comments to the person you're with, and I'll freely admit to doing this, but you wouldn't do it to their face! Being behind a computer screen doesn't make it okay! However on here it it's seen as okay to openly and often rudely criticise strangers.

I would like to add that there is also a lot of constructive criticism given on here, and it definitely outweighs the abusive however there has recently been quite a bit of bitchiness in CR of the likes that is normally seen in NL, and a lot of it seems to come from people who aren't regular posters in CR. Surely CC should be just that and give ways to improve, not just slate what is wrong.

I think a lot of "thoughts" get spoken aloud on the computer, and with typing your replies it's all too easy to loose intonation, facial expressions and the real meaning behind what's being said.

This 100%

 

[PucciNPoni]

I've been on both the giving (unintentionally) and receiving end of the "written abuse" sides of things on forums. How can someone UNINTENTIONALLY verbally abuse someone? By not carefully thinking about the response it's going to get, all the ramifications of what you write -by not carefully wording everything. And in my case, writing when TIRED!

Now, given that this forum is HUGE and has a vast number of personalities it's no surprise that there are many folk that tend to get feelings hurt. Some say that you should have a thick skin if posting pictures. Why? Some people just want to share a photo, they don't want CCs or any kind of negativity. Some do ask for feedback and they SHOULD be thick skinned.

I moderate on a forum for my work. I don't tolerate abuse whatsoever (though have been accused of it there, funnily enough -- by a brand new member who didn't know me from adam - and didn't understand a point I was making was light hearted.). And it's a small, quiet forum. Maybe cos it's got too many controls on it. If this forum was policed and people made to be "nice" it wouldn't be as hugely popular as it is.

I've tried a few times to leave HHO, but something draws me back. I just ignore the negativity and look for the useful information when it's given.

But I agree, people do seem to assume because it's not face to face interactions here that it's okay to say some nasty things.

 

[PorkChop]

Oi!! I think someone has a monopoly over that (extremely appropriate) phrase and she's on holiday so can't claim it Quite right though...

Gosh - sorry

 

[tinap]

Not read all the posts, but I completely agree & its certainly made me think twice sometimes about posting!! I'm all up for negative comments & peoples opinions, but there is no need for rudeness!!
For example, someone posted a while ago just to ask how much shavings other people use on rubber matting, I said a sprinkle, to then be told by someone else that in doing this then my pony, myself, my dogs & my house stink!!! - no help to OP & just outright rude! People come on here for advice not to be downright insulted!!

 

[BlueCakes]

I always think horse people are crazy. The majority of people I have met who own or ride horses, ( even just riding school customers!) are always out to better someone else. I can ride better, my horse has better breeding, i can jump bigger than you, I have more experience and more knowledge than everyone else blah blah... It's sound really childish, but I have come across this everywhere including on here.
I think it is exactly like real life on H&H forums, and I learn just to ignore the nasty comments, and also learn to hold my tongue when I really think someone is being an idiot.


Everyone has a different way of doing things, and I think people on here have a hard time realising that their way is not the only way. I think there are things that are wrong, but it's not my place to say unless asked for my opinion.

 

[TarrSteps]

To be fair to horse people, though, forums in general are crazy. Different kinds of crazy, perhaps, but crazy none the less. Some of them are famous even among people who don't go on them and aren't even interested in the subject.

I used to moderate a horse forum that's more controlled than this one and while things didn't tend to get as out of control, there did seem to be people who couldn't help stir things up, even if they knew they'd get cautioned/edited/banned. There are people like that EVERYWHERE. I'm sure they have their reasons and sometimes they genuinely have a point, but they also like the drama.

On the subject of posting photos etc., I understand about the not wanting criticism but don't you think the same thing would happened if you took a photo to a large group of people you know vaguely at a horse show? It's not the same as showing it to a few "real" friends in private, you are basically publishing it (literally and legally, hence the issues about copyright). I'm not sure people always get that about forums/social networking sights but once it's out there, it's out there for anyone to comment on. I don't think that's the worst thing to learn about the world these days! (Leaving out the whole question of whether or not people you only connect with publicly on a forum - vs through private correspondence etc - are "friends". . . that's a question for the modern world. )

On the subject of having different ways of doing things . . . I agree, people should live and let live but, again to be fair (I'm getting it on a t-shirt ) people often do what they do because they honestly believe it's the best way and sometimes they can be evangelical about it. Maybe less charitably, some people wish they COULD do things differently but are limited by say, money, or have an inkling that maybe they don't know as much as they wish they did, and this can make them defensive in their position. In which case there's something to be said for the recipient taking the high road and shrugging it off.

 

[Baydale]

Great thread, not only because it uses mine and Ma Baydale's favourite quote, but because I now know what TD really means when she says "well done" on my reports!

Joking apart, it's fascinating how involved everyone gets, and I've been as guilty of that as anyone. It's taught me to back off from time to time and get some perspective

 

[TGM]

Would any of you, in real life, actually march up to a fellow livery, rider at a show or a member of the general public and inflict your point of view, no matter how rude it comes across, on them?

I am probably more outspoken in 'real life' than I am on here. When I think something needs to be said, I will say it, although I do try not to be rude, even if I am direct. Being a farrier's wife, I come into contact with a lot of people whose animals are suffering from laminitis, and often this is because they had no idea just how bad letting their ponies be 'pleasantly plump' or 'comfortably cuddly' is for them long term. So yes, to answer your question, I do mention the risks to people I know in real life and I have actually had a letter published in H&H criticising the obese condition of some animals in their show reports.

That said, there are ways to word things and there are a few posters on here that seem to be up for a fight generally, and always seem to be at the centre of any forum scrum!

 

[Firewell]

I think there's lots of nice comments on here! I think most people get positive feedback.
It can be awful in NL, people slag each other off left right and centre.

 

[Baydale]

...says she who's on holiday reading HHO on her phone! In my defence m'lud, I'm sunburnt so under cover, between Kathy Reichs novels and HHO is like car crash tv. ;-)

Must go and read nikkimariet's thread now, if that's what has prompted all this. However I'm that laid back after a few days of sun and cocktails I doubt even a Hector reference could tempt me to post.

 

[Gamebird]

I think everyone shortening 'CC' doesn't help - if it was written/read as Constructive Criticism every time it was used then perhaps people would remember that the first word is the important one.

I'm another who will now be perpetually wary of TD's 'well done's!!

ps. BD - don't feel you have to read all 130-odd posts on NM's thread. I just did and that's half an hour of my life I'll never see again... I'd suggest starting on the next novel instead, and if you're an hour or more ahead of us then the sun should be nearly over the yardarm by now

 

[Sportznight]

Personally, if something concerns me, no matter the poster or the subject matter, whether pics or not, I will try and word a response where as little offence will be taken as possible! However, the bunny brushing, furry ferret fondling, OTT PCness of too many people (on here and in RL) mean that no matter how tactful you initially try to be, often you end up want to throttle people for complete lack of common sense and you want to tell them to "Man the &*£$ Up and take it on the chin", instead of pulling the bully/troll/rude/thoughtless/etc card, which IMO is just pathetic! (Sheesh, now that was a long sentence )