Is Horse Riding Cruel?

I haven't read the article but it is a subject I have been thinking about a lot recently. I have ridden for forty years and never thought much about the ethics of it. However, due to retiring my old mare and more recently my gelding due to kissing spines, I have started to wonder. I am currently breaking in my four year old and he's such a lovely boy. He enjoys his life in the field, but now the time has come to start his ridden career. And I actually feel quite mean! He objected a fair bit to being lunged, though he has now settled. I am just starting to sit on him now, and so far he's been a good boy. But I haven't bitted him yet, nor have I worked him on the lunge with any gadgets. In the past I have always bitted horses first and made them work with tack and side reins and de gouge before getting on them. The more I think about bits, the more I dislike them. But he will be bitted and worked in a bit eventually because I want to compete him in dressage. But I must say, I'm quite torn.
 
Speedyfluff said:
I haven't read the article but it is a subject I have been thinking about a lot recently. I have ridden for forty years and never thought much about the ethics of it. However, due to retiring my old mare and more recently my gelding due to kissing spines, I have started to wonder. I am currently breaking in my four year old and he's such a lovely boy. He enjoys his life in the field, but now the time has come to start his ridden career. And I actually feel quite mean! He objected a fair bit to being lunged, though he has now settled. I am just starting to sit on him now, and so far he's been a good boy. But I haven't bitted him yet, nor have I worked him on the lunge with any gadgets. In the past I have always bitted horses first and made them work with tack and side reins and de gouge before getting on them. The more I think about bits, the more I dislike them. But he will be bitted and worked in a bit eventually because I want to compete him in dressage. But I must say, I'm quite torn.
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I like this. I'm very much the same with my youngster at the mo.
 
In a word, No! If I thought it was I wouldn't do it. Taking the vegan position that no animal should be used for personal gain, we wouldn't have horses, pigs, cows, sheep, goats etc except for those in the wild.This would give us the interesting problem of how we would manage our countryside as lots of it isn't suitable for arable use. It's interesting, isn't it that man's development started when we moved from the forest where we foraged fruit and nuts to the coast where we started to catch and eat fish, giving us enough protein to survive with time to spare to do other things. As far as I'm concerned, if vegans don't think it's OK to ride, that's fine with me. Each to his/her own but not not for me!
 
Having had a cursory look at the article, anyone who references a man who is teaching his horses Latin, looses my interest and their credibility at that stage.
 
You don't want to go too deep down that rabbit hole, it never ends and it's dark down there.

There's some people who hold that all pet ownership causes cruelty in some form or other, either directly or indirectly, because it all feeds an industry that is extremely wasteful when you think about just how many unwanted or broken animals are euthanized yearly. That links in to other industries that produce the goods we buy - there's a big debate here atm about equestrian sports fuelling the use of hexavalent chromium in India's leather tanning industry in order to get cheaper leather goods mass produced, how the factories responsible for making saddle blankets are even less ethical than the fashion industry, etc. All this before we even get to the question of whether the act of keeping and riding a horse is cruel in itself. Basically if you look for cruelty you're going to find it in evidence everywhere you look and there's no escape.

For myself, I reason that my horse is happy with what she does and even enjoys it - I'm a big believer that animals do have emotions and feelings and science would seem to back this up, so it is possible for her to be happy. I try not to be wasteful when it comes to buying gear and I try not to put my own enjoyment/comfort/convenience before hers. That's as far as I allow myself to think.
 
Is horse riding cruel? No, not particularly. It's also not what a horse would choose to do with its time if given the choice, but I'm OK with that.
 
Well I watched it, which was quite an achievement considering how much that woman annoyed me. She could certainly do with a bite of something, preferably with some calories in it!
I agree with some things, that some horses ( perhaps most) are broken too young before their skeletons are mature. That some riders are careless about bitting and tack such that injury occurs, but then if anyone talks about horses you can usually find something to agree on. Really this is a black and white version by someone to the hard right of animal politics and therefore a completely unbalanced view. She probably doesn't realise that most riders that carry a whip never use it for more than a light tap, if that, or that they take care to find a bit that suits a horse or even that a saddle has to be fitted. I don't think there would be many horses about if everyone just looked at them or took them for walks.
She should probably stick to talking about vegetables. I wonder what she would do if they discovered vegetables could feel pain?
 
I haven't read the article, only the title... maybe I will summon up the energy to read it later. But anybody can ride a horse in a cruel and harsh manner, sometimes without realising it, depending on the physical and mental health of the animal, how well fitting the tack is, and the manner in which the horse is ridden and handled by the rider. I like to think that most of us are pretty well in tune with how our horses, and if anything, you only have to read the posts on this forum to see how we worry over our horses and put their well-being before anything else. I have no doubt my two horses were ridden in a cruel and harsh manner in their previous lives, but I like to think that I handle them, interact with them and ride them in a more sympathetic sympathetic way and I know that when we do go out, their ears are forward, they are interested and curious, and in my mind are happy to be out and about on our hacks. I would not ride them if I thought for a second what I was doing to them was cruel.
 
cobgoblin said:
She should probably stick to talking about vegetables. I wonder what she would do if they discovered vegetables could feel pain?
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There are actually studies in progress that want to determine whether plant hormone reactions to stimuli count as a form of intelligence and/or pain response :D which is quite amusing. I'm veggie myself but I try to keep common sense intact.
 
fattylumpkin said:
There are actually studies in progress that want to determine whether plant hormone reactions to stimuli count as a form of intelligence and/or pain response :D which is quite amusing. I'm veggie myself but I try to keep common sense intact.
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If such studies are proved, I'd really like to see her response.
 
I haven't read the article, but am aware of the vegan view that no animal should be used for humans' gain. That would also mean that we shouldn't have cats and dogs (or any animal for that matter) as pets as we gain from that relationship. Seeing as they've been domesticated for hundreds of thousands of years, they'd struggle a bit if we suddenly turfed them out to fend for themselves.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs, we've created a world for them where they rely on us, so we have to see that through. If we take pleasure from that in return (either from pets or from riding horses) I don't see a problem with that as long as they're not mistreated.
 
Loving some of these replies especially yours fattylumpkin! After having been up to do my horses, and taken the old boy on a hack, I think I have come to the same conclusion as most of you. My horses seem very happy and quite honestly if they don't feel like being ridden, they tell me! Completely agree with the 'no pet can be vegan' stance, as we all get gain from that relationship.
I do also think annagain is right in saying that we have created a world where they rely on us and so should see that through.
Also agree with whomever said that the woman needs to eat something! :p
 
It can be done in a cruel way, but on the whole I don't believe that the disciplines in which we train our horses to participate are cruel in themselves. They are mostly structured exercise in one form or another designed to improve muscle strength and cardiovascular fitness, thereby improving longevity and quality of life (provided they are done properly).
My horse is nearly 20. He is schooled to Advanced Medium and has done dressage all his life. Apart from a touch of arthritis that we caught early, he's strong and healthy. I think he is happy - he has an interesting job, a warm place to sleep and a friend.
Would he be happier atrophying in a field, with no muscle tone and one day merging into another? I'd like to think not. I hope not!
 
fattylumpkin said:
To cut out all forms of life from her diet and live on clay and mineral deposits instead, ethically sourced. And then post a blog on the internet arguing that keeping houseplants is cruel.
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Fruitarianism? She'd need some sort of energy source, and unless she takes up photosynthesising herself, she may have issues there...
 
I used to work for a lady who apologised to the lettuce before she ate it.........and also only ate windfall fruits. Very nice lady, but a bit, um, impractical shall we say?
 
I can honestly say that my ponies enjoy being ridden. They're out in 12 acres, in a big herd, and come right over to be caught, knowing that they are going out, despite never receiving any food reward. The ones who get left behind tend to stare after us wistfully.

... but then we are hacking out, not going round and round in a boring school.
 
No one wants to work, it's what we do. Same with horses. If no one is going to ride them, they ain't going to exist. Better a life with a bit of work and some grub and love, than never to have lived at all (to utterly misquote Tennyson).
 
madmav said:
No one wants to work, it's what we do. Same with horses.
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Definitely not true :) I owned a horse who would load himself into any wagon that was open and wait to be taken to an event, and who was twice seen to jump a course of show jumps when loose in a field.

I've had three which would walk straight past their own gate to carry on a hack for longer, and others who are reluctant to turn round and head home when on an 'out and back' ride.

And I never tie up to tack up and my horses never walk away from a saddle, so at the very least I'd have to come to the conclusion that they don't mind working.
 
ycbm said:
Definitely not true :) I owned a horse who would load himself into any wagon that was open and wait to be taken to an event, and who was twice seen to jump a course of show jumps when loose in a field.

I've had three which would walk straight past their own gate to carry on a hack for longer, and others who are reluctant to turn round and head home when on an 'out and back' ride.

And I never tie up to tack up and my horses never walk away from a saddle, so at the very least I'd have to come to the conclusion that they don't mind working.
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We had one who, when he started with navicular, would do his level best (no pun intended) to appear sound, and who once marched into the tack room and fetched his own saddle!! My current youngster loves learning new things and going to new places. Only problem we have with him is that he won't lunge in full tack. I think he reckons that full tack is for 'sploring and having fun in and he is too grown up now to lunge!!! !!)
 
pennyturner said:
I can honestly say that my ponies enjoy being ridden. They're out in 12 acres, in a big herd, and come right over to be caught, knowing that they are going out, despite never receiving any food reward. The ones who get left behind tend to stare after us wistfully.

... but then we are hacking out, not going round and round in a boring school.
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Schooling shouldn't just be about going around in "boring" circles. If it's boring, your doing something wrong...
 
I don't think it does harm to question our intentions and motivations at times, I for one do not think I am cruel to my animals. However, I can see there is room to cause harm without meaning too, for example ill fitting tack. However while I do my best to cause no harm , there are those out there who treat animals as property not living beings. They give fuel to this nonsense. My horses gain from our relationship, they live easy well cared for lives, in the wild my boy would have been eaten by wolves years ago. I also gain through my association with them, it's kinda like a symbiotic relationship really. :)
 
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