Is Horse Riding Cruel?

oldie48 said:
In a word, No! If I thought it was I wouldn't do it. Taking the vegan position that no animal should be used for personal gain, we wouldn't have horses, pigs, cows, sheep, goats etc except for those in the wild.This would give us the interesting problem of how we would manage our countryside as lots of it isn't suitable for arable use. It's interesting, isn't it that man's development started when we moved from the forest where we foraged fruit and nuts to the coast where we started to catch and eat fish, giving us enough protein to survive with time to spare to do other things. As far as I'm concerned, if vegans don't think it's OK to ride, that's fine with me. Each to his/her own but not not for me!
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Wouldn't be any wild Domesticated animals they would be in zoo's which of course are cruel in their own right. And I'm afraid i have a strong aversion to vegan.
I used to think that the most effective way to make a beautiful animal ugly, was to give it another arse. But wait, I have dogs and chooks! I became enlightened and discovered that horses are anxious to please their monkey masters and actually enjoy roaming around the countryside, they get a bang out of leaping obstacles. and, just like any other fit and well nourished creature revel in their own athleticism.
Horses have molded our culture and our language since before the wheel. Hats off to the aforesaid behinds that persist in loving, caring, understanding, educating and preserving one of our oldest friends, That most noble vegetarian, The Horse!
 
I haven't read the article (will do later) but I also think quite a lot about the ethics of riding even though I've ridden and had horses since very young. I think riding horses CAN be cruel but it very very much depends on the owner/rider. Personally I like to think I don't hit or force my horses to do things, I don't demand the do certain stuff but I work with them to get their confidence up enough to do it. I absolutely hate seeing horses beated up in the ring for refusing to jump for example, something has clearly gone wrong in the training yet the horse is getting the blame. It's very easy to turn a horse against you, but if you keep them working happily then I actually believe most really rather enjoy it. As long as its not caused by force. My current horse for example, I have never carried a whip on because I just don't use it and it would worry me if I ever felt I did need it. I took her to her first BE event the other day, with very limited XC experience yet she took me round that course so willingly and she got so much fuss for that which she thrives on. I also disagree with some of the nasty bits, nosebands, odd tack so often seen as common place. So many horses seem unhappy with their riders choice of tack and yet the rider is blind to it. I'm not saying mine are 100% in love with their tack but I try my hardest to make everything as comfy as possible for them.
 
annagain said:
I haven't read the article, but am aware of the vegan view that no animal should be used for humans' gain. That would also mean that we shouldn't have cats and dogs (or any animal for that matter) as pets as we gain from that relationship. Seeing as they've been domesticated for hundreds of thousands of years, they'd struggle a bit if we suddenly turfed them out to fend for themselves.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs, we've created a world for them where they rely on us, so we have to see that through. If we take pleasure from that in return (either from pets or from riding horses) I don't see a problem with that as long as they're not mistreated.
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I read a book once about domestication and it said that certain animals allowed themselves to be domesticated because it suited them and this is why not all animals have been domesticated successfully, ie why do Africans not ride zebras? Humans offered food, shelter and protection from predators, and I believe in the case of dogs at least, companionship.
 
marmalade76 said:
I read a book once about domestication and it said that certain animals allowed themselves to be domesticated because it suited them and this is why not all animals have been domesticated successfully, ie why do Africans not ride zebras? Humans offered food, shelter and protection from predators, and I believe in the case of dogs at least, companionship.
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I never thought about it like that. I will look into that more later.
 
Cortez said:
Is horse riding cruel? No, not particularly. It's also not what a horse would choose to do with its time if given the choice, but I'm OK with that.
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I wouldn't chose to come to work with my time, but I have to!! Therefore if what these vegans are saying is true, it must be cruel to make me work!?

I haven't read the article but I don't think its cruel, if the horse has well fitting tack and is treated well by its owners!

There are some cruel people in this world and I do feel sorry for some horses that I see but I don't think riding a horse is curel generally!

Plus if they didn't like it, they'd soon let us know
 
Sounds stupid... But one thing I never understood with vegetarians/vegans is that if they own pet dogs or cats, do they feed them meat or some weird veggie diet? And then, wouldn't it be 'cruel' for those animals never to have meat? Wouldn't it be for the vegans own gain to make their dog eat veg instead of its natural diet? Wouldn't it be for their own gain to allow animals to be slaughtered so their pet can eat meaty dog food?
 
As soon a I read Nezvorov I gave up! He is one crazy character indeed. Treat by some as a cultish figure - his online 'school' is private and those not following his path are called 'Slavers' :) Look him up!

I should think most vegans drive a car and doubt if there is 100% vegan friendly car made!.

I think vegans are a tad strange. Although they are well meaning souls on the whole, they just cannot see the bigger picture.
 
LilacWillow said:
Sounds stupid... But one thing I never understood with vegetarians/vegans is that if they own pet dogs or cats, do they feed them meat or some weird veggie diet? And then, wouldn't it be 'cruel' for those animals never to have meat? Wouldn't it be for the vegans own gain to make their dog eat veg instead of its natural diet? Wouldn't it be for their own gain to allow animals to be slaughtered so their pet can eat meaty dog food?
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That's a really good point. I'm veggie, yet I feed my dogs meat. I never thought of it as benefiting me, just that they needed it. Although I do know one woman who has her dog on a vegan diet!!!!
 
Cats are obligate carnivores, so having a pet cat and having it on a vegan diet would result in its death due to nutritional deficiencies and it wouldn't be a nice way to go either.
 
I think everyone should do what makes them feel comfortable with themselves. If you feel guilty eating meat, then don't. If you feel guilty eating other animal products, then don't. We must all find a level at which we are comfortable with ourselves. The worst thing to do IMO is bash those for doing what you don't agree with. That includes vegetarians trying to make others feel bad for eating meat, but also includes the vegan bashing going on in this thread. Just do what you are happy with, what ever that may be and stop trying to mock others for their beliefs.
 
_Annie_ said:
I've not ploughed through the article yet, it's the weekend! Just wanted to say, I'm vegan & not mad, we do exist!
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I know several vegans, and none of them are mad! I am a vegetarian, but never try to make others feel bad for eating meat. I gave it up to make myself feel more comfortable with myself. But each to his own. I don't think it is fair for people to criticise others for what they choose to eat (or not eat). Being a vegan takes one hell of a lot of dedication and self denial, and I admire that. I wouldn't be able to do it. I also know two people who do it for health reasons, not moral reasons. It can be highly beneficial for some health conditions.
 
Speedyfluff said:
I think everyone should do what makes them feel comfortable with themselves. If you feel guilty eating meat, then don't. If you feel guilty eating other animal products, then don't. We must all find a level at which we are comfortable with ourselves. The worst thing to do IMO is bash those for doing what you don't agree with. That includes vegetarians trying to make others feel bad for eating meat, but also includes the vegan bashing going on in this thread. Just do what you are happy with, what ever that may be and stop trying to mock others for their beliefs.
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This^^^^
Very well put!!

I am a veggie, I eat or use what I want. I don't push my views on to anyone including my dog. I have friends who are vegan they are no different to anyone on here they just do not wish to eat or use animal products.
 
If there has been any bashing then it hasn't been generalized at all vegans, only directed at this one particular woman who feels the need to air an opinon that demonizes anyone involved with riding horses. If you read the article and watch the video, she is making the argument that it is virtually impossible to ride a horse without causing permanent impairment and pain, and goes on to remind people there are other 'activities' with horses that don't involve riding. Ergo, we riders are either ignorant of the damage we're causing, or don't care so long as we get to enjoy ourselves. So this is one instance where I'm happy to forget being nice.
 
fattylumpkin said:
If there has been any bashing then it hasn't been generalized at all vegans, only directed at this one particular woman who feels the need to air an opinon that demonizes anyone involved with riding horses. If you read the article and watch the video, she is making the argument that it is virtually impossible to ride a horse without causing permanent impairment and pain, and goes on to remind people there are other 'activities' with horses that don't involve riding. Ergo, we riders are either ignorant of the damage we're causing, or don't care so long as we get to enjoy ourselves. So this is one instance where I'm happy to forget being nice.
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Err, I have a sheltie who I exercise by taking for walks. As those walks invariably involve in part going onto roads/tracks where the pony needs to be kept at close control (just the same a dog) walking is going to involve some sort of tack or gear, training to commands etc - whats the difference between that and riding well in gear that fits?
 
LilacWillow said:
Sounds stupid... But one thing I never understood with vegetarians/vegans is that if they own pet dogs or cats, do they feed them meat or some weird veggie diet? And then, wouldn't it be 'cruel' for those animals never to have meat? Wouldn't it be for the vegans own gain to make their dog eat veg instead of its natural diet? Wouldn't it be for their own gain to allow animals to be slaughtered so their pet can eat meaty dog food?
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Really?? People actually do this?? I'm a veggie and I have animals who have meat as their main part of their diet, I choose to be a veggie as I don't like the taste of meat or the thought of eating it myself. I certainly wouldn't change the diet of my animals who are carnivores naturally to eat a vegetarian style diet - that surely is an irresponsible thing to do, surely the basis of good pet ownership is to provide a diet that is close enough to their natural diet as we can??
 
sometimes people object to certain issues regarding so-called animal cruelty.for example someone might object to wearing fur and how the animals are kept,farmed and killed yet they are quite happy to use dairy products which another person may object to as they think dairy farming is cruel.the list is endless and we are generally a nation of hypocrites regarding animal cruelty.
 
Makemineacob said:
Really?? People actually do this?? I'm a veggie and I have animals who have meat as their main part of their diet, I choose to be a veggie as I don't like the taste of meat or the thought of eating it myself. I certainly wouldn't change the diet of my animals who are carnivores naturally to eat a vegetarian style diet - that surely is an irresponsible thing to do, surely the basis of good pet ownership is to provide a diet that is close enough to their natural diet as we can??
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there is actual facebook pages of groups about people who feed their dogs vegan and vegetarian diets.
 
Faracat said:
Cats are obligate carnivores, so having a pet cat and having it on a vegan diet would result in its death due to nutritional deficiencies and it wouldn't be a nice way to go either.
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Oh I wouldn't worry. Cats might humour their vegan owners indoors, but once they're through the cat-flap and amongst the birds and rodents those mittens are coming off!
 
aintgotnohay said:
there is actual facebook pages of groups about people who feed their dogs vegan and vegetarian diets.
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Wow, I must live a sheltered life (I don't do Facebook etc), I wonder what makes people think that is better than what nature intended? It seriously can't be healthy!! Are they feeding their animals supplements and extra minerals etc I wonder as being a veggie does mean making sure you don't miss out on essential things (iron etc).
 
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