Is it a crime...

[stormox]

To tell lies in order to obtain a horse?
I know if you don't want to lose control, don't sell....
I know some people really mean they'l give a 'forever home' when they buy and circumstances force otherwise....
But is it actually illegal to buy a horse by deceiving the owner and getting horse for peanuts with the promise of a forever home, see her when you like scenario but then selling on quickly for a fat profit to a dealer and then lying to ex owner that you have done so when asked?
I never thought this would happen to me....but it did. Luckily the horse landed in a good home, but it could easily have had a bad outcome as the mare had health problems that weren't disclosed.

 

[Auslander]

Nope - it's not illegal. Morally indefensible, but not a crime

 

[Barton Bounty]

Think it is the height of rudeness and bad manners though

 

[stormox]

I don't intend to do anything about it, can only learn not to be so stupid again, but to me its "obtaining goods by deception"

 

[Errin Paddywack]

It happened to my sister. She was selling a much loved gelding who was a bit small for her, just didn't grow on. He was mega intelligent and shall we say quirky but talented. A woman and a lad came to see him, supposedly for the lad who was a lovely rider and got on well with him. She accepted below asking price because it appeared to be such a good home. Turned out they were actually buying him potentially for someone else but in the meantime put him into the woman's RS. He really didn't approve of such boring work and took to bucking people off. Luckily the girl they had bought him for did like him and bought him, had him till she sadly lost him when he was about 27. She loved his quirkiness and we used to get updates about what his latest exploits were. So it ended well but left a sour taste.

 

[Caol Ila]

It's a dick move but I fear a common one in the horse world.

 

[Nasicus]

I totally disregard any comments on 'forever home'. Noone can offer a forever home, not even you, the seller (the royal you, not you specifically OP).
The price is the price, maybe a little wiggle room depending on the situation but never on the basis of 'forever home'.
(FWIW, it bothers me both ways, both a buyer trying to knock money off for a 'forever home' and a seller with a 'heart breaking sale only to a forever home'.)

 

[Melody Grey]

The only way you can really influence the fate of a horse once it’s left you is to loan rather than sell. All we can do is to try to find a trustworthy buyer and hope for the best sadly.

 

[Rowreach]

It happened to me about 25 years ago. I had a really super young horse but he was massive, far too big for me, and needed a proper job. A "friend" asked to buy him and promised the horse was for him and he wouldn't sell him on He did buy and sell a few so I didn't expect him to keep the horse forever, but he had him sold within the week. For £15k. I sold him for £4k. He's quite well known in the horse world too, so I've made sure not to recommend him since then, because to me it shows his true, dishonourable colours.

Fortunately I spent my £4k on a smashing horse who gave me many years of top entertainment, so all was not lost.

 

[Nasicus]

It happened to me about 25 years ago. I had a really super young horse but he was massive, far too big for me, and needed a proper job. A "friend" asked to buy him and promised the horse was for him and he wouldn't sell him on He did buy and sell a few so I didn't expect him to keep the horse forever, but he had him sold within the week. For £15k. I sold him for £4k. He's quite well known in the horse world too, so I've made sure not to recommend him since then, because to me it shows his true, dishonourable colours.

Fortunately I spent my £4k on a smashing horse who gave me many years of top entertainment, so all was not lost.

Oooh that is DIRTY.

 

[stormox]

What really upsets me is he bought her (for almost nothing) with her problems - COPD, serious allergies and spookiness all disclosed, but nothing was disclosed to his customer so the new owner had been treating her for a cough and had no idea about her problems.

 

[Anna Clara]

The dealer I bought off did that to the person who sold the pony to them. It's awful behaviour. Luckily I'm in touch with the previous owner who now knows he has a forever home, and if ever anything goes wrong with this forever home she can have him back or help find a new home if she wished to. I think I probably got a fair few lies as a buyer too but fortunately am reasonably experienced and been able to work through the various issues.

 

[blitznbobs]

If you want control you have to maintain at least a share in the animal and preferably send it on a lifetime loan … this too isnt binding in law you can terminate and take your horse back … which is much where I prefer to be

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Morally well dodgy but don’t sell if you don’t want to lose control. It seems very common, sadly.

 

[stormox]

Unfortunately I didn't have enough grazing for her to live out and being in at night wasn't good for her COPD. So I let her go to what I thought would be a better home.......

 

[PurBee]

Its reading about people’s experiences on here via selling or loaning that tells me immoral turds in the equine world are more common than i thought!
I have my own loan gone awry story to add to the pile, that has me more wary for future decisions with horses, but equally i dont discount that there are also very genuine folks out there looking to buy and loan that keep to their word, it’s just i have a healthier perspective to know where there’s profit to be had, especially with animals, lies are often, unfortunately, part of the process.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

What really upsets me is he bought her (for almost nothing) with her problems - COPD, serious allergies and spookiness all disclosed, but nothing was disclosed to his customer so the new owner had been treating her for a cough and had no idea about her problems.

I actually think he deceived everyone, you, the new owner, and caused if not harm, then at least unnecessary stress to the horse.
ETA: Or at least it could've lead to that, if the new owner had been less considerate /ETA

As I've understood it, the new owner had to let her go through the whole Autumn on sick rest due to cough, which they, even though veterinary visits, hadn't yet been able to find out was COPD. And if you hadn't posted here on HHO, and a number of unlikely events hadn't lead to you being able to get in contact with the new owner in another country, they still wouldn't know about the COPD, and the other things.

He might not legally have done anything wrong, but I hope he gets a big, painful boil somewhere.

 

[stormox]

I actually think he deceived everyone, you, the new owner, and caused if not harm, then at least unnecessary stress to the horse.
ETA: Or at least it could've lead to that, if the new owner had been less considerate /ETA

As I've understood it, the new owner had to let her go through the whole Autumn on sick rest due to cough, which they, even though veterinary visits, hadn't yet been able to find out was COPD. And if you hadn't posted here on HHO, and a number of unlikely events hadn't lead to you being able to get in contact with the new owner in another country, they still wouldn't know about the COPD, and the other things.

He might not legally have done anything wrong, but I hope he gets a big, painful boil somewhere.

That's spot on FinnishLaphund. I had alveola/bronchial lavages done at an equine hospital - a portable vet scope hadn't really shown much apart from redness and excess mucus in the top part of the airways.
He sold her early August and she passed through an Irish dealer who sold her at a sale/show in Sweden to her present owner who luckily is very knowledgeable and sensible.
At least she knows about the COPD now and can hopefully manage it OK (as I did). I am so glad I put considerable effort into tracing her and found some lovely Swedish people to help me and I suppose all's well that ends well.
But it could have ended so differently with her being passed around low class dealers - I can't bear to think about that....

 

[catembi]

Yeah, happened to me. I sold a PSSM type 2 TB for 'unridden companion' money to what I thought was the most perfect home...knowledgeable owner...wanted a gentle kind companion for her old boy, blah blah... Then she sold him on with disclosure of the PSSM for a LOT more than she paid me for him, & the next person promptly sold him on WITHOUT disclosure. I honestly thought I had found the perfect home for him and I was completely & utterly 100% wrong.