Is it because i didnt wear tweed?? :s

S

slormesher

Member
Joined
5 December 2013
Messages
15
Location
Stroud, Gloucester
Visit site
So i decided to enter a working hunter show near to my yard, the reason being i need to get my horse out and about to help here settle and for her to get back into the competitive mode and experience ready for our eventing season to begin in a few months.
My pony currently competes Novice BE and does very well in the dressage and looks amazing when shes all groomed and plaited... not favouritism at all :) haha.
So you can understand my shock as we went clear round the 80cm jumps and she behaved amazingly well in the show and showed some very nice movements. Only to end up coming last out of 11!! The horse placed before me was lame and the one before that almost through the rider off! It was only her second time out after her winter holiday so kept it simple and entered a small class.
Im not one for showing as this was my first ever time trying it, but i dont think ill be trying again!... any show people out their with any suggestions to how this happened? im more intrigued than anything.
Bring on the eventing season!!!

 
slormesher said:
So i decided to enter a working hunter show near to my yard, the reason being i need to get my horse out and about to help here settle and for her to get back into the competitive mode and experience ready for our eventing season to begin in a few months.
My pony currently competes Novice BE and does very well in the dressage and looks amazing when shes all groomed and plaited... not favouritism at all :) haha.
So you can understand my shock as we went clear round the 80cm jumps and she behaved amazingly well in the show and showed some very nice movements. Only to end up coming last out of 11!! The horse placed before me was lame and the one before that almost through the rider off! It was only her second time out after her winter holiday so kept it simple and entered a small class.
Im not one for showing as this was my first ever time trying it, but i dont think ill be trying again!... any show people out their with any suggestions to how this happened? im more intrigued than anything.
Bring on the eventing season!!!

Click to expand...

This is why i dont like showing. Stick to showjumping and eventing! where its either you did jump it or you didnt. ha ha

I dont know why they didnt place you higher though, sorry. Must have been very frustrating for you.
 
Billy the kid said:
This is why i dont like showing. Stick to showjumping and eventing! where its either you did jump it or you didnt. ha ha

I dont know why they didnt place you higher though, sorry. Must have been very frustrating for you.
Click to expand...

Agreed ... at least then you can come away and know exactly what it is that went wrong! Luckily i found this amusing more than frustrated! haha O well cant say i didnt give showing a chance!
 
Mithras said:
I've noticed that with some lower level showing, a lot of the judges are actually scared of the normal forward jumping horses that would do well at county level.
Click to expand...

Or they mark down when you aren't turned out correctly?

OP - tweed is correct for WH daytime classes, navy is only to be worn in WH at evening championships. Your mare sounds like she went very well and it is a shame she was placed down, but attention to detail in showing goes a long way and I'm afraid most judges will harshly mark for turnout - that is half the game of showing after all :)
 
Pity you didn't ask - politely of course. Some judges wouldn't have taken much notice about turnout and just judged the horse, others would have just thought you weren't correct and simply not judged you at all.
If you horse is good and jumps well, have another go - in a tweed jacket!
 
Or the judge knew you and your pony were vastly experienced in comparison to the other competitors and felt that if you were entering an 80cm class it wouldn't be for the rosette as you compete at a much higher level normally, but the competition practice and therefore you wouldn't care that you didn't win, whereas to others in that class it meant a lot?

Honestly, I'd be unimpressed to see a pony and rider combo who have regularly (and successfully it sounds like) competed at BE Novice doing an unaffiliated 80cm class competitively. And generally I'm very much in the camp of "if you're allowed to compete, compete".
 
Lolo said:
Honestly, I'd be unimpressed to see a pony and rider combo who have regularly (and successfully it sounds like) competed at BE Novice doing an unaffiliated 80cm class competitively. And generally I'm very much in the camp of "if you're allowed to compete, compete".
Click to expand...

This.
 
Lolo said:
Or the judge knew you and your pony were vastly experienced in comparison to the other competitors and felt that if you were entering an 80cm class it wouldn't be for the rosette as you compete at a much higher level normally, but the competition practice and therefore you wouldn't care that you didn't win, whereas to others in that class it meant a lot?

Honestly, I'd be unimpressed to see a pony and rider combo who have regularly (and successfully it sounds like) competed at BE Novice doing an unaffiliated 80cm class competitively. And generally I'm very much in the camp of "if you're allowed to compete, compete".
Click to expand...

Totaly agree with the comment based on my horse being over qualified .... definatly didnt go to win or get placed, was actually quite nice to see the non sport horses winning and being judged on the same level was quite nice! ... was just intrigued on how these things were judged! :)
 
Lolo said:
Or the judge knew you and your pony were vastly experienced in comparison to the other competitors and felt that if you were entering an 80cm class it wouldn't be for the rosette as you compete at a much higher level normally, but the competition practice and therefore you wouldn't care that you didn't win, whereas to others in that class it meant a lot?

Honestly, I'd be unimpressed to see a pony and rider combo who have regularly (and successfully it sounds like) competed at BE Novice doing an unaffiliated 80cm class competitively. And generally I'm very much in the camp of "if you're allowed to compete, compete".
Click to expand...

Agree, plus your horse may be great eventing but could have conformational weaknesses - eg. Socking great splint
 
Lolo said:
Or the judge knew you and your pony were vastly experienced in comparison to the other competitors and felt that if you were entering an 80cm class it wouldn't be for the rosette as you compete at a much higher level normally, but the competition practice and therefore you wouldn't care that you didn't win, whereas to others in that class it meant a lot?

Honestly, I'd be unimpressed to see a pony and rider combo who have regularly (and successfully it sounds like) competed at BE Novice doing an unaffiliated 80cm class competitively. And generally I'm very much in the camp of "if you're allowed to compete, compete".
Click to expand...


As a judge surely you are there to find the best combination of horse & rider & place them in order of merit. You should put aside anything you may know about the competitors. It should be a level playing field, neither favouring the experienced nor the inexperienced, as a judge you are there to judge performance..
 
POLLDARK said:
As a judge surely you are there to find the best combination of horse & rider & place them in order of merit. You should put aside anything you may know about the competitors. It should be a level playing field, neither favouring the experienced nor the inexperienced, as a judge you are there to judge performance..
Click to expand...


Agree up to a point. If someone is clearly pot hunting I say credit to the judge for not placing. I'm not saying this was the case with you OP. Maybe you could have asked for feedback from the judge, Like someone else said it may have been down to confirmation faults etc.
 
Definatly agree with the pot hunters it drives me insane aswell ... i was just in that class because i traveled with my boss and it was either that or nothing.... my pony needed to get out and learn to behave though so would be silly to say no. Like i said wasnt looking to get placed was just interested in the way of judging .... definatly wish id asked about confirmation might of seen something i havnt seen!
 
el_Snowflakes said:
Agree up to a point. If someone is clearly pot hunting I say credit to the judge for not placing. I'm not saying this was the case with you OP. Maybe you could have asked for feedback from the judge, Like someone else said it may have been down to confirmation faults etc.
Click to expand...

If someone is pot hunting or not is, for me, beside the point. If you have agreed to judge a class you are not there to judge some ones character or lack of it but the performance. I know I am probably in a minority of one on this but I would not expect (or want) to beat a clearly better horse/rider just because it is known to be a winner & the judge thought they should not have entered. You should judge what is in front of you on the day. I'll get off my hobby horse now before it breaks a leg.
 
Lolo said:
Or the judge knew you and your pony were vastly experienced in comparison to the other competitors and felt that if you were entering an 80cm class it wouldn't be for the rosette as you compete at a much higher level normally, but the competition practice and therefore you wouldn't care that you didn't win, whereas to others in that class it meant a lot?

Honestly, I'd be unimpressed to see a pony and rider combo who have regularly (and successfully it sounds like) competed at BE Novice doing an unaffiliated 80cm class competitively. And generally I'm very much in the camp of "if you're allowed to compete, compete".
Click to expand...

Ordinarily I would agree, but it is working hunter class so different surroundings, environment etc. There are plenty of WH horses that event, at least unaffiliated.

OP - I can't see the picture you have posted, but it could just be your horse, in the judges eye, was not a suitable WH horse. They have to be smart, but workmanlike. Blemishes are not normally taken into account (certainly at the lower levels) on the basis they are working horses and should have been hunted so have potential to pick up injuries/blemishes. If your horse is 'too pretty' it could be marked down, it might be the gallop wasn't considered bold enough, or the horse looked to be hard to ride.

I would give it another go, and depending on the outcome, ask to get some clarification from the judge for the future, as it might be you can still show, but in a different class :)
 
RunToEarth said:
Or they mark down when you aren't turned out correctly?

OP - tweed is correct for WH daytime classes, navy is only to be worn in WH at evening championships. Your mare sounds like she went very well and it is a shame she was placed down, but attention to detail in showing goes a long way and I'm afraid most judges will harshly mark for turnout - that is half the game of showing after all :)
Click to expand...

Its hardly unusual to see a rider in a very small working hunter not wearing tweed. I assume the OP was wearing a formal jacket of some sort? In a working hunter, it should be 60% jumping and a horse that gets beaten by a lame horse or one which the rider nearly fell off would have to have such bad conformation to lose to the 40% given for conformation and turnout that you would assume they would be barely able to move, never mind jump a clear round!
 
[Content removed]

[Content removed]

These are some images of my pony.... dont think she looks like a horse with bad confirmation :) Dont have a stood still one at hand atm.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mithras said:
Its hardly unusual to see a rider in a very small working hunter not wearing tweed. I assume the OP was wearing a formal jacket of some sort? In a working hunter, it should be 60% jumping and a horse that gets beaten by a lame horse or one which the rider nearly fell off would have to have such bad conformation to lose to the 40% given for conformation and turnout that you would assume they would be barely able to move, never mind jump a clear round!
Click to expand...

Showing is subjective though, I can't comment on badly behaved or lame horses because I wasn't there, but incorrect turnout is incorrect turnout and for that it isn't unreasonable to be put down the line by a judge.
 
Not sure about the pot hunting bit. Eventing and showing are completely different disciplines. I don't know anything at all about showing so I might be totally wrong, does entry into classes take into consideration achievements in other areas? Genuine question :)
 
If you were only there to get your horse out then you shouldn't really be bothered if you got placed or not. If you wasn't wearing the correct turnout then you are going to get marked down.
 
If i won a class knowing the better combination wasnt placed because they are more experienced than me, i wouldnt count it as a win. Id be very disappointed. I'd want to win knowing on that day i was the best in that class.
 
RunToEarth said:
Showing is subjective though, I can't comment on badly behaved or lame horses because I wasn't there, but incorrect turnout is incorrect turnout and for that it isn't unreasonable to be put down the line by a judge.
Click to expand...

In a showing class, trueness to type should be more important than minor errors of turnout, and in a performance class like a working hunter, the element of turnout should be even less important, as long as the horse is clean and reasonably well turned out. At county level, yes, turnout errors should make a difference, but equally they should still not allow a very inferior but well turned out animal to win.
 
Sorry you had a crappy experience showing OP but, as someone else said, I would stick to the disciplines where there is no doubt as to why someone wins!

In my experience WHP classes are a joke and it wouldn't have mattered if you had tweed on or if your horse did amazingly. If you do not have the right connections in the WH world you are unlikely to get placed! My thoughts on WH used to be that the idea was the horse would actually be able to 'hunt all day's but the amount of hugely obese horse who can barely lift their limbs over fences I have seen win these classes is ridiculous. Those and others who spend the majority of their time on 2 legs! I mean, how dare you show a horse in the class who could actually withstand a day's hunting..................!! ;-)
 
ladyt25 said:
Sorry you had a crappy experience showing OP but, as someone else said, I would stick to the disciplines where there is no doubt as to why someone wins!

In my experience WHP classes are a joke and it wouldn't have mattered if you had tweed on or if your horse did amazingly. If you do not have the right connections in the WH world you are unlikely to get placed! My thoughts on WH used to be that the idea was the horse would actually be able to 'hunt all day's but the amount of hugely obese horse who can barely lift their limbs over fences I have seen win these classes is ridiculous. Those and others who spend the majority of their time on 2 legs! I mean, how dare you show a horse in the class who could actually withstand a day's hunting..................!! ;-)
Click to expand...

You should come watch the WH in dublin, at least of 2/3 of the class will have been hunting at some point. But in summer they are fatter than they would be whilst hunting.

Traditionally i thought wh showing came about to give the hunters something to do in the summer when they are in softer condition?
 
Mithras said:
I've noticed that with some lower level showing, a lot of the judges are actually scared of the normal forward jumping horses that would do well at county level.
Click to expand...

Incidentally, i went to a lower level local show yesterday to do M&M working hunter and the in the novice class the judge asked if my pony had hunted before and complimented me on his jumping round for being forward moving and suitable for the hunting field which I thought was really nice and good that she was reminding novices about the roots of the class and what she was looking for.

OP: as showing is very subjective there is every chance that the judge felt that as you were not turned out correctly for the class they couldn't place you - not that I agree, but it's an easy, very obvious thing they can mark you down on (and a jacket is glaring, not like the wrong colour gloves!). Sounds like your horse was good and you got the experience you were looking for with him.
 
It seems to be the way of first shows. I think the judges smell it and put you last to find out if you're going to be a return customer. If they weed out the ones who are going to give up cause they didn't place then they have the serious showers left. I placed last out of about 15 horses in my very first show, despite a lot of people saying i shouldn't have, so i can only think that it was my handling skills and nerves showing through (even though i was told it didn't look like my first show!)

Just the way it goes.
 
"Is it because I didn't wear tweed??" I don't know, but it's more than likely because your horse may not be a WH type, jumping in the way a WH is supposed to go. Showing is a bit of a Dark Art to those who dare to look in from other worlds........
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top