wattamus
Well-Known Member
As title, there are people at my yard who don't have any insurance whatsoever. Am I right in thinking they need at least 3rd party insurance otherwise it's illegal? x
Is it illegal to not have your horse insured?
- Thread starter wattamus
- Start date
Enfys
Well-Known Member
No idea I am afraid.
I don't have a single one of my horses insured, it isn't worth it, but I do have public liability under the Farm policy, perhaps these people have something similar, BHS for instance?
I don't have a single one of my horses insured, it isn't worth it, but I do have public liability under the Farm policy, perhaps these people have something similar, BHS for instance?
galaxy
Well-Known Member
No it's not illegal... prob should be!
wench
Well-Known Member
illegal = no. Stupid = yes!
Enfys
Well-Known Member
wattamus
Well-Known Member
Really? god I thought it would've been. What if their horse ran out onto the road and caused thousands worth of damage? Would they have to pay it?
I was thinking about it because one of these uninsured horses went to kick mine the other day and i though what happened if that had broken her leg etc etc, surely they would have to pay, but they can't afford to pay insurance or farrier bills so i doubt they'd be able to cover vet fees! It's just so scary to think about!
But I'm shocked I was sure it was illegal, I agree it should be!
I was thinking about it because one of these uninsured horses went to kick mine the other day and i though what happened if that had broken her leg etc etc, surely they would have to pay, but they can't afford to pay insurance or farrier bills so i doubt they'd be able to cover vet fees! It's just so scary to think about!
But I'm shocked I was sure it was illegal, I agree it should be!thatsmygirl
Well-Known Member
No it's not but feel it should be but than I think cyclists on the roads should have insurance as well
The Fuzzy Furry
Living in 🦄 🦄 land
Not illegal, but irresponsible not to have 3rd party insurance.
However - you mention 'kicking' in the field? That is an accident.... not something anyone can be responsible for really.......
However - you mention 'kicking' in the field? That is an accident.... not something anyone can be responsible for really.......
Kat
Well-Known Member
It isn't illegal to have your horses uninsured but it is very stupid.
It is a personal decision whether you insured for vets fees, mortality and theft. Entirely up to the owner. But public liability is essential, if your horse injures someone or causes damage to something then you are extremely likely to be liable under UK law. If you aren't insured then you will be personally liable to pay the bill, and could be forced to sell your house or even made bankrupt if you can't pay.
Public liability insurance is very cheap, and in my view everyone who rides or handles horses should have it even if they don't own a horse. The cheapest way to do it is with BHS gold membership which also includes personal accident cover and other benefits all for £55 a year or thereabouts.
It is a personal decision whether you insured for vets fees, mortality and theft. Entirely up to the owner. But public liability is essential, if your horse injures someone or causes damage to something then you are extremely likely to be liable under UK law. If you aren't insured then you will be personally liable to pay the bill, and could be forced to sell your house or even made bankrupt if you can't pay.
Public liability insurance is very cheap, and in my view everyone who rides or handles horses should have it even if they don't own a horse. The cheapest way to do it is with BHS gold membership which also includes personal accident cover and other benefits all for £55 a year or thereabouts.
MissTyc
Well-Known Member
Legal versus sensible!
Vet fees are optional in my opinion and there are many reasons to not insure for vet fees.
But even if you had £20,000 cash sitting there for a vet bill, that would very commonly not be anywhere near sufficient to protect against a liability claim.
Vet fees are optional in my opinion and there are many reasons to not insure for vet fees.
But even if you had £20,000 cash sitting there for a vet bill, that would very commonly not be anywhere near sufficient to protect against a liability claim.
wattamus
Well-Known Member
No i meant kicking because she walked her horse way too close to mine whilst mine was tied up outside her stable. they actually rubbed rugs they were that close and her horse is known to kick and she had plenty of room But I'm digressing. How interesting it should be made illegal definitley, I am always reccomending insurance to people on the yard, my horse would have been in the ground/ Field in the sky in September if it weren't for my insurance this year. And i think you can get third party from the BHS for under £100 a year can't you?
But I'm digressing. How interesting it should be made illegal definitley, I am always reccomending insurance to people on the yard, my horse would have been in the ground/ Field in the sky in September if it weren't for my insurance this year. And i think you can get third party from the BHS for under £100 a year can't you?
Equilibrium Ireland
Well-Known Member
If a horse breaks your horse's leg while being a horse, insured or not those people are not responsible. Your horse your responsibility. If said horse is causing problems he/she needs to be removed from the group.
What if your horse got kicked while being the instigator? I am not suggesting that is the case but in my experience no horse owner admits they have the brat, it's always the other horse's fault.
What you are talking about is totally separate to what most these people here and talking about. Liability is making sure you are protected from injuries to humans and property damage to others.
If you had a herd of horse's or more than one and one of yours kicks the other and breaks it's leg how is that any different than is the case now? The difference is, by reading between the lines, you don't feel these people are fit to own a horse and want someone to blame if your horse gets hurt.
These are horse's my dear. It happens and has nothing to do with insured or not. They play hard and rough. The only thing you can do is have private turnout or no turnout. Still no guarantee Dobbin won't get hurt but you can't blame people you don't like.
Terri
What if your horse got kicked while being the instigator? I am not suggesting that is the case but in my experience no horse owner admits they have the brat, it's always the other horse's fault.
What you are talking about is totally separate to what most these people here and talking about. Liability is making sure you are protected from injuries to humans and property damage to others.
If you had a herd of horse's or more than one and one of yours kicks the other and breaks it's leg how is that any different than is the case now? The difference is, by reading between the lines, you don't feel these people are fit to own a horse and want someone to blame if your horse gets hurt.
These are horse's my dear. It happens and has nothing to do with insured or not. They play hard and rough. The only thing you can do is have private turnout or no turnout. Still no guarantee Dobbin won't get hurt but you can't blame people you don't like.
Terri
Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
^^ this, and I'm not stupid either
There is no legal requirement to insure your horse(s) for PL, though if they get out on the road and cause an accident, you may wish that you had
wattamus
Well-Known Member
sorry just read two comments that were posted whilst i was writing I shall be recommending people to BHS then. I'm covered for £5million liability by my insurers and wouldn't dream of being without it x
I shall be recommending people to BHS then. I'm covered for £5million liability by my insurers and wouldn't dream of being without it x
Kat
Well-Known Member
I agree, but in fact many will have public liability cover. CTC membership includes it as a benefit just like the BHS do for riders. Also many home insurance policies will include a level of public liability insurance.
Home insurance may cover your horses, I know some cover pets as I have dealt with a claim that related to a dog injuring someone that was covered on their home contents policy but check carefully what their definition of pet is it may not include horses.
Tr0uble
Well-Known Member
I'm not stupid
No you're not stupid because you have 3rd party insurance!
Horse insurance is the owners choice and owners can decide if they can afford vets bills without insurance, but 3rd party (although not a legal requirement) IMO should be mandatory! If I get hurt by someone's horse, and have my life ruined by it, I would be mightily pissed off if they weren't insured and I couldnt be compensated!
wattamus
Well-Known Member
Oh no Terri! That was just a random question i asked as i was curious to know who would be responsible, I understand horses are horses and thing happen but just curious what would happen if an incident like that arose. but the main point of the post (maybe not clear enough *sorry*) was whether people had to be insured. I think it's highly irresponsible not to be especially if you ride on the roads etc. But i had it in my head that it was illegal.
but the main point of the post (maybe not clear enough *sorry*) was whether people had to be insured. I think it's highly irresponsible not to be especially if you ride on the roads etc. But i had it in my head that it was illegal.
Equilibrium Ireland
Well-Known Member
Just read your follow up post. Still going to be hard to prove but never mind the insurance your yard owner needs to have a talk with her.
The same exact thing happened to me last year. A woman went to walk passed my mare as I was putting her in. I was trying to say give me a chance when her gelding bit my mare on the ass. So you bet she kicked. No one got hurt thank god but then she went to telling me off for having a dangerous horse. You can well imagine what I told her. That gist of it was you can't cure stupid. She has not done anything as careless since. Had my mare kicked her, entirely her fault. Witnesses as well!
Terri
The same exact thing happened to me last year. A woman went to walk passed my mare as I was putting her in. I was trying to say give me a chance when her gelding bit my mare on the ass. So you bet she kicked. No one got hurt thank god but then she went to telling me off for having a dangerous horse. You can well imagine what I told her. That gist of it was you can't cure stupid. She has not done anything as careless since. Had my mare kicked her, entirely her fault. Witnesses as well!
Terri
Silent Knight
Well-Known Member
Not illegal, but should a serious accident be caused, would one be willing to sell their home to pay the compensation and court cost involved?
Kaylum
Well-Known Member
bhs insurance is really a good idea. People dont think about things like just because you dont hack doesnt mean you dont need insurance. A girl at our yard her horse broke free and ran over a girl who was also at the yard. Luckily she was insured as the girl needed dental treatment which was expensive, another girl had bhs insurance and was involved in an accident on the road when a horse she was riding ran into the road and damaged a car. The insurance paid out on that as well.
Kat
Well-Known Member
I'm not stupid
No because you have public liability insurance.
In your position (as a yard owner responsible for other people's horses as well as your own) you'd be more than stupid if you didn't have public liability, you'd be down right nuts! Especially in the USA where litigation is so much more expensive and claims are higher. Although I'm not sure how the law deals with animals over there, part of the problem over here is the strict liability under the animals act which makes it very difficult to defend a claim against you.
The Fuzzy Furry
Living in 🦄 🦄 land
As a YO, I insisted that anyone coming in with their horse/pony had to have 3rd party liability when I took in liveries.
Its all I have (thanks BHS) but it does give peace of mind.
Its all I have (thanks BHS) but it does give peace of mind.
wattamus
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the advice guys
Kat
Well-Known Member
And in a serious accident selling your home may not be enough to pay damages and costs. BHS public liability insurance is for £5 million.
If I told you that a claim for a broken wrist is likely to be in the region of £3k just for the injury, then there will be claims for things like loss of earnings, and travel on top, plus possibly some private medical care, then a minor injury can easily reach £10k. Then there are legal costs, you would probably have to pay the claimant's costs and they are likely to be for at least as much as the claim itself, more if defended, so lets say £20k. Then your costs of defending, probably another £20k. That is £50k for a simple claim where perhaps your horse knocks someone over.
If you think about a loose horse causing a multiple vehicle accident, and serious injuries or deaths then you can see costs going into the millions easily.
touchstone
Well-Known Member
I think it is only sensible to have third party, mine is covered on my household policy for third party and I'm also in the bsja which provides cover.
My paddock is beside a motorway, so I dread to think of that damage and claims that could be caused if ever they were loose on the road.
My paddock is beside a motorway, so I dread to think of that damage and claims that could be caused if ever they were loose on the road.
Equilibrium Ireland
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure almost all of us have liability insurance right? How could you not? My group is protected as well as YO has protection.
Terri
Terri
Kat
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry Terri but under ENGLISH law (if you are in Ireland it might be different I don't know) you are wrong. If your horse does something that is just what horse's do, like kick out at something passing closely behind it, then you are strictly liable for it. So had your horse injured the lady walking past she would have had a claim against you even though it wasn't your fault. There is an explanation of why here:
http://www.ridingsafely.net/mirvahedy_v_henley.html
There are of course other factors to consider but I want to get across to people how onerous the law in relation to animals is and therefore how important public liability insurance is.
wattamus
Well-Known Member
So If her horse kicked mine because of her negligence then she would be liable to pay for damages? and vice versa. Hopefully this would never happen but if it did, it is interesting to know where each respective party would stand.
Equilibrium Ireland
Well-Known Member
Not here and I would have fought it to the last. My horse gets bit on the ass by a horse because stupid woman decides it's a good idea to walk by in such an enclosed space. Na uh, not losing everything because someone is that stupid. Read, her horse bit mine, so reality says her horse caused mine the pain and reaction. So I'm afraid I'd be counter suing.
Sheesh, I'm American and thought we all were the world's worse for stupid sue happy people. Guess not. Basically someone gets my horse bit from stupidity and I'm liable? Typical.
Terri
Sheesh, I'm American and thought we all were the world's worse for stupid sue happy people. Guess not. Basically someone gets my horse bit from stupidity and I'm liable? Typical.
Terri
touchstone
Well-Known Member
What really annoyed me was someone I knew had problems with kids going in and riding/chasing her ponies in the field, she had electric fencing up and keep out signs and she was told that she would be liable if the kids got hurt!