Is it illegal to not have your horse insured?

[Equilibrium Ireland]

I guess here in lies the problem. If that were reversed and my horse was the biter and I got hurt or my horse got hurt in the process, I'm going to be apologising for my stupidity and deal with the costs. But the chances of that happening are slim because in general, I'm just not that stupid.

I don't know I guess growing up and in life I try not to blame others for my mistakes. I wish I was perfect but sadly I'm far from it!

Terri

 

[Mare Stare]

What really annoyed me was someone I knew had problems with kids going in and riding/chasing her ponies in the field, she had electric fencing up and keep out signs and she was told that she would be liable if the kids got hurt!

I've had the same problem with my geegees. I was going to put a sign up saying that my horses bite but was advised not to. Had to put up with horrible chavvy kids throwing stones and chasing my youngster round with sticks.

That was until I moved my Welshy there . He's a grumpy sod and the kids are all scared of him. Tbh it's the most use he's ever been.

As for insurance, I've got 3rd party and that's it.

Oh and the ability to flutter my eyelashes at my Daddy if I get a particularly big vet's bill. Luckily, the vet lets me pay in installments so I haven't had to use the eyelashes yet.

 

[Kat]

So If her horse kicked mine because of her negligence then she would be liable to pay for damages? and vice versa. Hopefully this would never happen but if it did, it is interesting to know where each respective party would stand.

The animals act is a horrible bit of law, and the case law on it is developing all the time. But basically strict liability is strict liability, however there might be a counterclaim in negligence depending upon the circumstances.

The thinking goes that if you choose to keep a horse you choose to take on the ordinary risks that go with it so if it does something that is a normal part of horse behaviour then you are liable. It isn't always an answer though you might have a counter claim or be able to "pass on" the claim if there was another party involved, say someone deliberately let your horse out, you would be strictly liable for what it did but you would have a claim against the person who let it out for the losses caused by their act.

So get insurance and then the whole legal mess is their problem!

disclaimer: that is a bit of a noddy account trying to avoid the complexities so not a complete picture

 

[wattamus]

No its not illegal, nor is it stupid! I am NOT paying an insurance company stupid amounts of money for them to refuse any claim! I have a separate account i put money in and earn interest on, exclusively used for my horses needs

So do you not have any form of insurance? not even 3rd party liability?

 

[Mare Stare]

No its not illegal, nor is it stupid! I am NOT paying an insurance company stupid amounts of money for them to refuse any claim! I have a separate account i put money in and earn interest on, exclusively used for my horses needs

That probably wouldn't help you much if your horse got out onto the roads, caused a pile up, loss of life and limb and a couple of million pounds worth of damage.

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

Just wanted to thank wattamus for starting this thread and the person who gave me the link! Catching up on more reading and my liability policy which seems to include cover for the incident that happened had anything bad occurred.

Terri

 

[MagicMelon]

No, not illegal. Two of mine aren't insured at all and in fact I've only ever insured two horses, the rest I never bothered with. I've always been a member of something though like BRC, BSJA and BE so they give you 3rd party cover I believe.

 

[Orangehorse]

It depends on whether you are worth suing or not. Unfortunately I am, so if my horse caused an accident and I didn't have insurance, then it would be very well worth their while to take me to court and if it was a large claim - £1million or so which it could be for a bad road accident - then it might mean putting the family (inherited) home and farm on the market to sell to pay them out.

If you don't actually OWN anything, other than your horse and a car, then you aren't worth suing probably.

So I am a member of the BHS for 3rd Party Insurance and whenever I get involved in anything I always think "is this insured." Some of that is my job but it is also my careful nature.

 

[Kat]

No its not illegal, nor is it stupid! I am NOT paying an insurance company stupid amounts of money for them to refuse any claim! I have a separate account i put money in and earn interest on, exclusively used for my horses needs

Yikes I hope you have a few million put by then! Public liability claims are very expensive and can arise through no fault of your own, even if your horses never leave the premises.

 

[heidiharvsnroo]

Really? god I thought it would've been. What if their horse ran out onto the road and caused thousands worth of damage? Would they have to pay it?
I was thinking about it because one of these uninsured horses went to kick mine the other day and i though what happened if that had broken her leg etc etc, surely they would have to pay, but they can't afford to pay insurance or farrier bills so i doubt they'd be able to cover vet fees! It's just so scary to think about! But I'm shocked I was sure it was illegal, I agree it should be!

Same as what would happen if someone's child smashed your window I suppose.

It is not illegal, but very, very daft. Ever since I started riding other people's horses for them and loaning I joined BD which gives me free 3rd party liability insurance. BHS do as well.

I always remember one girl I know hacking her cob out. Someone in a car got too close and he lashed out. He smashed the head light and caused a fair bit of damage to the front of the car. Luckily she and him were ok.

it cost her thousands though, she always said she was glad she had PL insurance. I couldn't afford to fork out all that money in one go and sort it all out. Am more than happy to pay someone £40 a year to do that for me!!!

 

[Orangehorse]

What about the unfortunate farmer who owned a calf that escaped when a member of the public left a gate open when walking on a public footpath. The calf escaped onto the road, a car ran into it and the people were badly hurt. The farmer was liable and had to meet all the costs and damages, despite a strong defence from his legal team. It was a big news item in the farming press.

Another case was when a racehorse walking around the paddock before a race kicked out and caught someone on the head, and he was badly injured. The racehorse owner was financially responsible and was made bankrupt as he hadn't got the horse insured.
I was frankly rather surprised that it isn't a condition of being a racehorse owner, or is included in general memberships, expenses, etc.

If you have no insurance you are on your own if anything happens, which could be a horse kicking a car, injuring a passer-by, etc. Luckily these sorts of things don't happen that often, which is why is makes the news when they do. It can be a financial nightmare though.

 

[heidiharvsnroo]

Hmmm, tried editing my above post as I had a bit more to add but can't, so here is the rest of it.

Insuring for vets bills etc is one thing that I think should be up to the rider/owner. My mare is 19 and on a veteran package, so I know I need to put a bit aside each month for stuff that isn't covered, but personally I do think that everyone who rides private owned horses out on roads or in public places, or takes them to shows etc, should be made to have PL insurance at the least. I mean its not fair if they damage something or someone and then that person is left to pick up the bill because the rider can't afford it or what not.

Same principle as car insurance, if you ask me.

 

[touchstone]

Worth considering though that it doesn't necessarily have to be a member of the public getting injured that creates a claim against you, the horses just breaking fencing or getting loose and damaging a neighbours land/crops could leave you liable too.
If you never move from your own place it might be a risk you choose to take, (I still wouldn't though) but most people travel to events, transport bought/sold horses or hack out.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

my horses are not insured as i found i was getting very little for my money so i have bank account for vets fees.


I do however have 3rd part when i filled in the gifting in scheme with horse welfare

 

[heidiharvsnroo]

Interesting that someone has mentioned a wagon having its own insurance...I've never known that. All insurance policies I've seen on wagons insure the wagon itself and 3rd party for any crashes etc, but not the actual horse inside.

Worth considering though that it doesn't necessarily have to be a member of the public getting injured that creates a claim against you, the horses just breaking fencing or getting loose and damaging a neighbours land/crops could leave you liable too.
If you never move from your own place it might be a risk you choose to take, (I still wouldn't though) but most people travel to events, transport bought/sold horses or hack out.

True. Its a legal mine field, which is why I'm happy to part with my £50 a year for membership and let them deal with it should it happen. Touch wood it never has to me, but you never know.

Horses getting kicked by each other, bitten, injured in fields etc is by the by and part of horse ownership. I wouldn't dream of suing someone on our yard because their horse kicked mine, and vice verca. That's part and parcel of it.
However, should she get out, wander onto a road, damage someones property or boot someone's car then its completely different and one gamble I'm not willing to take.

Insurance for vets fees is a personal choice, and one I'm not sure I'd take up if it was up to me (however its not!) but 3rd party and public liability...wouldn't DREAM of being without it!!1

 

[Orangehorse]

Just to add, it is of course illegal to drive a car without insurance, just because if you had an accident and injured someone there should be money to compensate them. That is why driving without insurance is taken so seriously.

 

[scarymare]

Sorry haven't read thread but not insuring your horse 3rd Party is MADNESS.

I like many take BHS gold which also supports them.

It really should be illegal not to, horses can kill, injure and maim just like cars do.

 

[DragonSlayer]

No it's not but feel it should be but than I think cyclists on the roads should have insurance as well

I agree. And I also think that it should be law that cyclists should use cyclepaths if they are there. This morning, this guy was on a VERY busy road, not even on a racer, but a mountain bike...and he was on the road. FAR too much traffic for him to be truly safe....isn't that why cycle paths were invented?

 

[Kat]

@KK, private land only people ever around are me, mum dad, sister and niece's no public to be liable for.

And what if you neice got kicked in the head and was left with brain damage? Can you guarantee that her parents wouldn't sue when faced with the hundreds of thousands of pounds bill that caring for a brain damaged person entails.

What if the horses escape?

What if they injure your farrier or vet?

What if they injure someone tresspassing on your land?

What if they escape and damage crops or fencing?

What is they damage a vehicle belonging to a delivery person or legitimate visitor?

 

[Luci07]

Interesting points. I insure my old mare principally to ensure I have 3rd party cover. It is my understanding that if my mare, for arguments sake, escaped and caused an accident - even it the escape was NOT my fault - I am legally liable. Therefore I have insurance. My sharers have to have their own as my insurance only covers the horse and me - not anyone else who rides. When I start competing again then I will review to see what cover I get.

Couple of other points - if you want to put up electric/nasty horse etc as long as you have put up a clearly visible sign warning of said dangerous horse etc you are NOT liable. This is, of course, presuming you are on private land. If someone hurt themselves on your property, even if trespassing, unless you had this warning up you are liable.

And while I do totally agree that horses will be horses I have been on the recieving end when someone tried to sue me when my horse kicked out at her and caught her so don't get me started. Idiot woman crashed into the back of my horse and then tried to claim i had "hauled" my horse on the mouth to make him suddenly stop. She had a somewhat litigeous habit so I wasn't the first, but I was so glad of my insurance as it did get very protracted. She lost in this instance, having put a lot of lies down in her statement which were very easily refuted - and of course, that cast doubt on her actual statement. It got down to having to have proof of my competence as a rider and what level I had ridden at..

 

[PeterNatt]

There is no legal requirement to insure horses in Great Britain.

However ........under the animals act 1971 the horse owner is liable for the animals action. In other words owners/keepers have strict liability for accidents or injuries caused by their horses.

In 2003 a landmark judgement (Mirvahedy v Henley) by the House of Lords placed responsibility on the owners of horses who escaped from a secure field and caused injuries to a motorist. The ruling set a precedent under the Animals Act making the owner of a horse or other animal that could potentialy cause damage, liable for the animals action, no matter what precautions were taken to prevent it.

It was made quite clear that horse owners should ensure that they have third party public liability cover to no less a sum of £10,000,000. (Ten million pounds). Most insurers do not provide insurance to this cover so it is essential that horse owners check their policy very carefully.

This levelof insurance is provided if you are a Gold member of the British Horse Society.

 

[Izzwizz]

Excellent thread. Very important and very informative!

 

[eggs]

My British Dressage membership also gives me public liability insurance for all my horses. Not having public liability insurance is madness, especially as it is CHEAP.

We had an incident near us a few years ago when someone opened the gate to the horse's field . This gate was about 500m from the road and only accessed by crossing private LAN. The horses got out onto the road. There was an accident resulting in the death of two horses and the injured car driver got well over£1,000,000 in damages.

 

[Bertolie]

Not having 3rd party insurance is just plain stupid. 9 weeks ago one of my horses spooked whilst we were hacking in woods miles away from any roads. He bolted off in a blind panic and ended up on a busy main road 5 miles away where he was in a collision with a car. Thankfully the car driver had been alerted to the loose horse and was stationary at the time. Horse sustained multiple injuries (but is making an amazing recovery) and thakfully both the driver and her young passenger were unharmed but extremely shaken. The car however was a write off. Thankfully I have public liability insurance through BHS. How anyone can think its not necessary is beyond me.

 

[wattamus]

Wow so many points on here! I've never had a thread get so big!

 

[Pedantic]

For riding on the road, if they make it law for cyclists to be insured then yes, till then no, why should it, cyclist can cause £££££££ of damage but no one says they have to be insured, but "common sense" says yes insure your horse, I wouldn't be happy if mine wasn't covered for at least 3rd party.

 

[Mrs B]

My niece's don't come near the horses unless with me, neither of my horses have ever kicked anyone, no car's or delivery trucks go near the yard, my fields are un escapable and my yard is gated in away from everywhere else as I like to be left alone to do my horses, My uncle is my farrier so again would not sue. and on top of that my sister would not let either of her daughters suffer with no quality of life and the life support would be switched off. Believe me when we moved to where we are, EVERY eventuality was thought of and we have done our best to make sure we have the best set up we can, If they injure a trespasser then good as the should not be on my land. Its also not possible to wander onto my yard or through my fields. Gates are security coded and we have guard dogs.

Have to say I think you're very naive. You have NO idea what may or may not happen in life and also no idea what people (even if you're related to them) will do if faced with a crisis. Saying your sister would turn off her child's life support and not try everything possible to keep that child alive and care from them, personally suing you for the money? I can't decide whether that's naivety, arrogance or stupidity - I presume your parents' decision?

Added to which, saying someone who is on your land is a trespasser so if they get hurt, you'd be pleased - I don't think you'll find that would stand up in court...

 

[touchstone]

My niece's don't come near the horses unless with me, neither of my horses have ever kicked anyone, no car's or delivery trucks go near the yard, my fields are un escapable and my yard is gated in away from everywhere else as I like to be left alone to do my horses, My uncle is my farrier so again would not sue. and on top of that my sister would not let either of her daughters suffer with no quality of life and the life support would be switched off. Believe me when we moved to where we are, EVERY eventuality was thought of and we have done our best to make sure we have the best set up we can, If they injure a trespasser then good as the should not be on my land. Its also not possible to wander onto my yard or through my fields. Gates are security coded and we have guard dogs.

And yet accidents can still happen, no matter how many eventualities you may think you have covered.

 

[s4sugar]

So if someone came in the night & attempted to steal your horses but instead allowed them to get onto a road you would consider the cost of joining WHW or the BHS a worthwhile saving?

The gene pool needs some chlorine!!!

 

[Bikerchickone]

Totally agree with Touchstone and Mrs B. Racheal, you may think you have everything covered but for the sake of £50 a year is it really worth it? What happens if your neice gets kicked in the spine, ending up in a wheelchair, are you gonna turn off life support then too because you have no insurance that would pay for her care? Naive beyond belief. I truly hope you are never put in this position, but if you are, could you live with the guilt? I couldn't and that's why I have PL insurance.