Is it moral to sell on old/elderly horses?

S

Shilasdair

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First of all - I'm assuming that old/elderly horses are in at least their late teens.
So my questions are:
1. Is it moral to sell on old/elderly horses?
2. Are there any criteria that should be considered before you decide whether to sell?
3. What other options would there be for an older horse?
S
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1. No
2. Your conscience
3. Personally if I was selling as couldn't afford then unless I knew he/she would be well looked after (and who can guarantee that!) I would be tempted to PTS rather than have them potentially go from pillar to post and eventually end up at the bottom of the pile
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1. I dont think it is
2. Will he/she be looked after. Will he/she be pushed too hard by new owner. Will he/she be passed from pillar to post
3. PTS - sent for meat - left to rot in field - neglected - turned out on the moors or the nice ones... sold to some idiot like me who wraps them in cotton wool and pampers them - sold to someone whom wants a "pocket pony" or has a rich owner who sends em off to a good retriement home
 
I put my elderly pony out on loan to a friend.It may seen harsh to sell but isnt always realistic to keep and pay for a horse that may live for 5-10 years when you want something to replace them.
 
1. Is it moral to sell on old/elderly horses?
<font color="blue">No </font>
2. Are there any criteria that should be considered before you decide whether to sell?
<font color="blue">Need time to answer this part </font>
3. What other options would there be for an older horse?

<font color="blue"> If the owner is truly unable to keep, PTS would be my choice, but for othgers? </font>
 
1. Depends
2. lots- health, fitness, history, age- late teens are often fit and healthy as anything else, even still competing at top levels. Late 20s is probably a different story.
3. The same as any other horse that is fit and healthy. Any horse sold on could end up in a bad way or in a bad home further down the line. Any of them could develop serious illness or injury at any time. All you can base a sale of a horse on is it's current condition and previous condition, and if it's always been fit and healthy then what's to say that it won't continue to be for several more years, with so many horses now livign to late 20's and beyond quite easily.

Also they all die at some point, due to some cause or another. If you want to be sure of your horses future and end then i see no difference between selling a 5 year old and a 20 year old. As long as they're healthy- as i keep saying.
 
OK Socrates, I recognise you. Here we go...

1. Anyone who answers this question must be mindful of the fact that people do SELL horses as we dont SELL people and thus horses are fundamentally different, with regards to this particular question, from people. Therefore, any answer cannot logically refer to the horse as a sentimental subject in the same way as we might consider a person. Morality, regarding the treatment of animals, is currently most fashionable as an effort to align their treatment with their 'natural' needs and capacities- also worth bearing in mind for anyone who is going to be brave enough to answer the OP without the devils little friend shafting them from behind....
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2. Every single aspect of the situation which is inevitably going to be a unique one due to complex circumstances of every horse and every horse owner. As Aristotle would say "it is the mark of an educated person to look for precision in each kind of inquiry just to the extent that the nature of the subject allows it"

3. Keep it, PTS, blood bank, charity, donate to science, loan, shoot, set free, meat man or retirement livery. And possibly something else I haven't thought of. Tangible problems have finite solutions
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i bought my gelding at 17 and will keep him until the end
criteria before selling would be wht it can do and what type of home it would suit
other options are loan or pts
 
I personally wouldnt sell an elderly horse. I feel if i owned them itd be my duty to keep them to the end. All mine have done me proud &amp; been kept to their dying day. If i wasnt able to i would rather have them PTS than the possibility they go somewhere less than they deserve. But how old is old? How functional &amp; sound are they? My friend sold her daughters pony who was 20 odd &amp; went off to live it up in luxury with a lovely retired lady who wanted something to groom, wander out on &amp; pamper!! This same friend has a 50 yo shetland so... depends on the pony!!
 
Sold my daughters eventer age 17 to a fantasic home, how do I know? he is still on the same yard living the life of Riley with his extended human family. Yes it was right for him and us, bit we were very careful and waited months for the sale to proceed so all involved knew it was the right thing to do.

Could have kept him for younger daughter to start BE on, he would have done it but may have "broken" he deserved more than that, but our circumstances did not allow us to keep a horse in semi retirement.

We were lucky to us selling him was the right thing to do for all involved
 
1. Is it moral to sell on old/elderly horses?
<font color="blue">Yes - we've bought a much loved 19 year old (from a friend's niece) as a companion/2nd pony for my daughter, he's a schoolmaster, very sweet, totally perfectly manners and absolutely lovely everyone loves him even the non horsey! </font>
2. Are there any criteria that should be considered before you decide whether to sell?
<font color="blue">Depends on the home - but he has one here for life</font>
3. What other options would there be for an older horse?

<font color="blue"> I think it depends on owners circumstances/horse's needs and quality of life, and there's no one answer to this</font>
 
How moral it is, depends entirely on the situation.


It would be un-moral if the person was just trying to 'pass the buck' onto a niave, unsuspecting owner - where the quality of the horse's life would be questionable.

There's nothing morally wrong however if for example, the older horse could go on and be happy in retirement as a companion horse or perhaps a confidence giver to a nervous, novice rider and generally be spoilt rotten.

As long as all the parties involved are fully aware of the situation, the realities that come with it and will act in the horse's best interests, then that is all you can ask.
 

1) If they are sound enough to do a job then yes
2)what job does the prospective buyer have in mind for said horse? But would very much be dependent on horses ability to do job, given age and soundness. Vet prospective buyers and try to weed out the unscrupulous (maybe easier said than done). Don't sell for peanuts. Get as many references as possible. Lastly I would decide whether I would be in a position to take the horse back if new home did not work out.
3)Again dependent on circumstances, if we're talking about a real geriatric and I was unable to offer retirement, then yes PTS rather than sell on.

I think a lot of people buy horses with the best will in the world, to give a home for life but circumstances do change and it's not always possible. I think you just have to be as responsible as you can and decide on the basis of the indivdual animal what is best. It's a difficult one!
 
My old horse was bought by me when he was 16 (for a v small amount) due to a nasty divorce. The owner (teenager) was distraught and came to visit him a few times, and I remember her crying that he looked so well. I rang her when he was PTS, and she was understandably upset, but pleased that I had done the right thing
 
I have a 30 yr old Tb and she has not been ridden for 6 years, she is not a burden just because i cant ride her, she is my responsibility, she has given me hours and hours of pleasure, her well deserved secure retirement is the very least i can do for my beautiful girl. Yesterday she galloped round in the snow happy as larry and stupid to boot!, the joy i got watching her yesterday, sounds daft but to see her enjoy herself is why i do it!!
My cob is now 17 ish (could be more or less who knows!) she is also a lifer and will never go anywhere.
 
I think, it's complicated. My horse is in his prime right now, but as he gets older (and I live in fear of his dreadful conformation catching him up) I will probably be forced to reassess. The problem I have, is that he detests being out of work. He becomes grumpy and snarly and nearly bursts with joy when his tack comes out again. He wouldn't "do" retirement, but if that's what it took (i.e. field sound) I would try it. I wouldn't hold out much hope though and if he didn't adapt, I'd have him shot.

The other side of the coin is, I need a horse that can do a certain amount of stuff. If mine went down to light hacking, say, I don't know whether (as I am not in that situation) I would dull my activities down to suit him. I probably would, as I love him with all my heart. Or, whether, I would consider LOAN to someone who would get an awful lot of enjoyment out of him. But, if I did that, it would be word of mouth, and I would always make sure I was in the situation to have him back, if need be.

The reason I am ambiguous, is because my first horse I got as a teenager had hunted and evented successfully all his life, he had an injury which lessened his activities, but I and he had a fabulous few years with him showing me the ropes at 3'-3'6 and absolutely loving still being out and about.

Whatever though, my horse's needs will come first, mine second. There is a lovely old hunter from Horseworld on our yard at the mo. All sorts of ailments and I can imagine the tremendous seasons he gave someone, or some people. Shame on them for passing him on, I say. He deserved better, as do they all.
 
1. Yes, depending entirely on the circumstances. We have a rising 22yo who is out on loan and a rising 20yo who is also in a loan home but still competing at the top of her game. Age is entirely relative and some horses are old or unable to fulfil some part of their perceived "job" at a young age too. I am lucky to be in a position that if either were given up by their loan homes (yes, lots of refs taken etc) then I could keep them at home but that isn't something that I would choose to do so they are out on loan to appropriate homes. Not everyone is in my position however and I don't think we should judge.
 
I think it's OK depending on the circumstances. I sold an 'old' pony who was retired from competition due to arthritis in both coffin joints last year. He was 18. He's still hooning around the countryside with his new owner and has remained totally sound. He was on loan to her for a year before I sold him, and I asked £1K for him as I didn't want to sell him for peanuts - I think it devalues them in the new owner's eyes.

I admit that I considered having him PTS, but I'm so glad that I didn't. He's doing really well and his new owner worships him. (I knew she would having had him for a year on loan at our yard - he's now moved up the road since she owns him). I do worry about what she will do with him if he ever goes lame and can't be ridden, but then I am in touch with her, and would help her do the right thing if it came down to it.
 
I personally think its immoral but then I have a conscience, he has given you his all then he deserves a decant retirement. It upsets me to see them on horsemart et al, especially when it says things like 'must go this week as new already arrived'.
I have a friend who ended up having two elderly/physically 'damaged' ponies. Her parents offered to buy a new horse if she sold them. She refused and went through a period of 7 years of cadging a ride and keeping two pets in the height of luxury. She went without so as the two could have the warmest rugs, the best feed and vet treatment.
Sadly she lost the last one a year ago.
I would be happy to loan an old chap if he still had the get up and go. I would hope I have the decency to do the right thing when the time came to help him on his way.
 
I was originally going to say I wouldn't sell an older horse as I would be worried for its future for when it cannot be ridden etc. But then I realised by selling our younger pony, he will still be in the same situation when he is older.

So I think as long as you can find them a good home where they won't be kicked out when they cannot be ridden anymore, then it's fine. I would rather loan an older one out though, just for piece of mind.
 
<font color="blue">1. Is it moral to sell on old/elderly horses?</font>

Only if you can dupe some idiot into buying it for at least six times its worth.

<font color="blue"> 2. Are there any criteria that should be considered before you decide whether to sell? </font>

Whether you should post the ad for scrutiny on HHO

<font color="blue"> 3. What other options would there be for an older horse? </font>

Burgers

Next question.
 
Yes I think any horse that is under 20 is basically okay to sell, provided that horse is still sound, in good health, and fit for a reasonable level of work. It depends completely on the horse - some might be getting a bit elderly and doddery by late teens, but others could be mistaken for four year olds and could easily go on the same for 5-10 more years. I don't think its particularly nice if someone has had the horse since an 8 year old, had all the best years of its life and then sold because they can't be bothered to keep it into old age, but that isn't always the case. Someone may have bought a horse as a 15 year old to regain their confidence on, for example, and two years later they are ready to move on to something more advanced, and the same horse can go and do what its best at with someone else.

That said I do think you have to be much more careful with older horses. I probably would only sell an older horse through word of mouth to someone who could be vouched for, and I wouldn't sell a horse for little to nothing, as that's just asking for trouble. Likewise with a horse that's really showing its age, or isn't sound or in full health. In that case I would either keep, loan, or PTS.
 
[ QUOTE ]
First of all - I'm assuming that old/elderly horses are in at least their late teens.
So my questions are:
1. Is it moral to sell on old/elderly horses?
2. Are there any criteria that should be considered before you decide whether to sell?
3. What other options would there be for an older horse?
S
grin.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

1. No
2. N/A after answering question 1.
3. PTS....as there are far worse things thn a dignified death.

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I wouldn't sell my oldie: any horse I own is with me for life, barring the unexpected and awful.

If somebody really couldn't keep their oldie any more, I would cautiously say its ok to loan, under a contract, to a local loanee with seriously good references and visits, updates and consultation on the welfare of the horse. If a suitable local (I do believe that is very important) loan home could not be found, I think the person should consider a) re-mortgaging or b) PTS.

In order of preferance I would:

1) Keep &amp; adjust workload or retire. My horses are pets, and I think whenever anybody buys a horse for leisure use they should commit to keeping it until the end of its life, unless it can be sold with a clear conscience when young &amp; healthy enough. Sorry, but sod the "I want a horse to ride not a retired nag and I can't afford both" choice - I'd go for the retired, expensive, no useful work out of them option every time.

2) Put in retirement livery

Both above options would be financed however I could.

If not at all possible:

3) Loan as companion/relevant workload - locally, preferably to someone I know, always with references and contractual terms related to the individual horse's requirements.

4) PTS. I'd hate to do it to a healthy horse, and would ask a charity to be involved first, but wouldn't sell.
 
I got my horse when he was 21, about to turn 22 and he was free to a good home. His owner couldn't keep him as she had no space but she is very atached- they did a lot together and she really did love him and all his little ways. I am so pleased I got him, and without him I wouldn't be riding today I don't think. I was just turned 14 when I got him and I have always adored him. 4 years down the line we have a stupidly healthy, happy horse who loves life, jumps well, is too mad to hunt and steadfastedly refuses to do a dressage test. I understand, and have always understood, that he is an old horse and if something happens the only viable option is PTS and he could drop dead tomorrow. However, as long as he is fit and healthy and happy he is here to stay.

If the horse was lame, unworkable, unretirable or too tricky to send on then yes it is immoral to sell them on as it is with any horse in that condition. Cheeky's here forever (no one else would want him!) and he will be ridden until the end- this is not a horse who will retire with grace.
 
After always having youngsters, and mostly younger project types, i decided to look for a longer term project after having 2 babies in 12 months!
I also have a daughter with cerebral palsy who i care for full time. Before the birth of my 2 sons (now 16 month and 4 months old) i had more time to take on youngsters to bring on, and at any one time would have up to 4 horses to work, for owners/on loan or i owned.

I put an advert on project horses and thats how i ended up with charles!

I can honestly say that of all the horses i have had over the 20 years i have had horses, he is my horse of a life time!

He will be 18 this year, and has a multitude of quirks, and can be a very grumpy man at times. His owner bougth him 2 years ago and after a lot of problems and with goign to college she decided she coudl no longer do him justice. She did nto want to sell him as he is the ideal candidate to be passed from piller to post. He needs regular careful shoeing to keep him sound, he dosnt winter well, he takes a lot of management, will kick and bite with intent if given the chance and can also be very dominant and he cribs! . All this aside he was obviously a very nice horse in his time. He is still very talented and will turn a hoof to anything.

I have him on permanant loan and when the time comes when he can no longer work he will be PTS. I say this becasue knowing charles liek i do, he woudl be very miserable if he coudl not lead a workign life. He is not a candidate as a companion, and he isnt really a people person either. he only really likes a select few people i have been very lucky that i am one of those people.

His owner could of sold him, but she didint. His welfare and ultimatly where he ends up, means more to her than money. They did loose a lot of money on him as well.

He is a smashing chap and i feel privigedged to have him in my life. I have found a friend in charles and all the hard work and money is worth it.

I understand why his owner wanted to permant loan him to me rather than sell him. she is very happy with the care i give him and is always welcome to come and see him when ever she wants and ride him. i also send her regular emails with photos.
 
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