Is it now cheaper to be on Full Livery rather than DIY

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Tinks81

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was looking at prices of stables, bedding and hay the other day and basically worked out that nowadays it is cheaper (especially in the winter) to be on Full Livery (im talking about around near london where full livery is between £90 - £120 a week)

DIY boxes are around £40 a week then including services, hay, feed and bedding i work out it would cost me more than above

What do you all think ?
 
I have just worked out that my monthly schooling livery bill will probably be the same as DIY + services :eek: though that is something to do with a different location
 
This is often the case and I dont think location is totally relevent. On our yard it becomes cheaper to be on part livery than on assisted diy after three or four days and our YO will point this out to clients so they can make their own choice.
 
I guess some people like DIY if they dont work and can be there and do everything for their horses but if you work and need services etc it would be easier and cheaper to be on full livery

hay is £5.20 around me at the moment
 
Of course it's cheaper to go for part/full livery than for DIY if you require additional services.
My pricing is designed that way - it makes much more business sense for me to have a constant flow of slightly less money than uncertain more, simples.
Also, I can buy feed and bedding in bulk, thus improve my profit margins.
 
OMG Martlin! You have profit margins?!:eek: My respect for you is growing daily :D

I don't have DIY liveries because of the hassle, but quite often get asked for it - I point out that they are getting a much better deal on full livery, and they can spend as much time with their horses as they want to, but without all the expense and effort of going diy. I certainly wouldn't have a horse on diy if I could get the sort of service I offer for the price I charge :rolleyes::)
 
I think it depends if you need the services or not every day as this can make a lot of difference and how much your horse eats and what. A good doer pony is going to be a lot cheaper to feed than a horse and a lot of livery yards do not take that into consideration when working out prices.

I am in the London area Herts and only pay £3.50 a bale for lovely meadow hay and our box rent is £130 a month and then on top of that is shavings. However as my good doer pony lives out all year my costs are fairly low anyway.
 
Depends where you look - all yards have different policies,

Ours include hay haylage and straw in the basic charge and then if you want 5 or 7 day livery you pay that separately or pay for services as you need them so it is alot cheaper to be on DIY.

However some charge so much for individual services so if you need to pay for catching and feeding at the end of the day is almost as much as a day's full livery.

I know of a couple that don't even do services, you have to have full or diy.

The other thing to watch out of is that some yards even on full livery say they include hay/haylage and bedding and then ration you so you have to top up so then it doesn't work out cheaper.
 
Rowreach said:
OMG Martlin! You have profit margins?!:eek: My respect for you is growing daily :D

I don't have DIY liveries because of the hassle, but quite often get asked for it - I point out that they are getting a much better deal on full livery, and they can spend as much time with their horses as they want to, but without all the expense and effort of going diy. I certainly wouldn't have a horse on diy if I could get the sort of service I offer for the price I charge :rolleyes::)
Click to expand...

LOL:D
I only have profit margins as I do the work myself;) - well below minimum wage...
Don't do DIY either, it doesn't make sense, creates loads of problems and awful lot of hassle.
My cheapest part livery (5 days of full and owners muck out on weekends) is £59 a week with feed/forage and bedding included.
 
However there are many of us that can only afford DIY with no services so make the time either side of a full time job to look after the horses ourselves!

For me paying for services, or going for part/full livery would not be an option let alone a money saving one.
 
I'm like Eurorider. No services are available anyway, whether you want them or not! Funnily enough, I was just discussing this with another livery the other day, and came to the conclusion that unless yards are doing full livery at WAY below cost, we DIY folk are being ripped off!
 
At my yard it is - I have 5 day full and 2 day DIY - all hay and 2 bales shavings included for £60 a week. Horse in at night all year round (can have 24 hour turnout but I prefer not to).

I worked it out and 4 years ago (different yard) even taking into account hay /shavings prices going through the roof I am £7.42 a week better off (not including the time/fuel to get to the yard!).
I'd need rocks in my head to not be full in the week - HOWEVER, if I didn't trust the staff I would DIY, cost or no.
But I wouldn;t be at a yard that I didn't trust the staff, so ...

Now: Bill = £60 per week = £240 per 4 weeks + parking box £8 = £248

Then:

"Part" livery (Field stable grazing plus bringing in 5 days - £45 a week (I know!) = £180 per 4 weeks
Hay - 4 bales a week @ £3 - £12 = £48 per 4 weeks
Shavings - 6 bales per 4 weeks (it was £5.95 a bale) - £35.70

TOTAL £263.70 PLUS box parking @ £3.50 a week = £277.70

Difference = £29.70 PER 4 weeks

and less fuel costs (and time) to get there!
I think lots of yards now offer some sort of Part livery instead of DIY to survive, especially in these days of ridiculous fuel costs. We get ad-lib hay and no-one takes the mick, we just ask for a bale and they bring it next day, or sometimes we (full liveries) share a big bale when they're all in at night.
Simples!
 
EnduroRider said:
However there are many of us that can only afford DIY with no services so make the time either side of a full time job to look after the horses ourselves!

For me paying for services, or going for part/full livery would not be an option let alone a money saving one.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I'm not so sure, I'll give you an example:
Part livery at mine for £59, you just need to turn up and ride, the horse is bedded/hayed/watered/fed for you.
DIY:
£25 a week stable and field (going rate around me)
£12 4 bales of hay a week
£3 a third of bag of chaff a week
£10 a bag of mix/cubes a week
£1 a sixth of bag sugar beet
£4 2 bales of straw a week

that's £55 a week so you are saving £4 pounds that is supposed to cover your time, fuel etc. Not to mention the horse might need an extra bale of hay or straw it would just ''get'' from me included in the package, but on DIY you would have to go out and buy it.

You can argue that your horse doesn't eat anything, which is fair enough, but if it doesn't require hard feed I will give you a discount on your livery price...
 
the other thing is our winters are getting worse and worse so though at the moment everything is nice and horses stay out when its snows like it did last winter people hay prices must go throught he roof
 
Martlin if you tell me you have got an indoor school I'll be moving to sleaford pronto. To be honest just some floodlights and I'd consider it!
 
Livery (stable, field, school etc) = £25 per week
Hay, 2 slices overnight all year round = 1.5 bales a week = £4.50 per week
Hard feed, must have Saracens Releve = £15 a sack which lasts 3 weeks = £5 per week
Bedding, Aubiose = £8 a bale, half a bale a week = £4 per week
Fuel, large 4x4 costs 25p per mile two trips a day, 3 miles eash way = 12 miles a day = 84 miles a week = £21 per week

Total £59.50, including fuel that I would still spend half of going to the yard once a day to ride even if I had someone else looking after the horse.

I am in Bucks and doubt very much that I'd get any change out of £100 a week for part livey round here.

Horse is a fit 14.3hh Arab currently competing in 50 mile rides so it is not like she is on a diet or anything!
 
But surely the only *real* difference between DIY and part/full livery (barring travel costs) is labour? And given what most yards pay, let alone what yard owners pay themselves ;), it's not surprising there isn't a huge gap. Add in bulk deals for feed, shavings etc, the more streamlined approach of caring for all horses under one system, the fact that having a number of horses can justify mechanisation to some extent, even if it's just a quad . . . Horses are just expensive, end point. The only real saving would come with a horse that's ridiculously cheap to keep, as you likely wouldn't get a relative deal in a large yard.

I know in areas where DIY isn't common (most of North America for a start) people routinely overestimate the "profit margin" of boarding horses and are usually quite shocked if they get their own place and have the horses at home.
 
It depends at some farms their DIY is more expense then at 'lower down the market' type of yards livery is. and also it depends on the area. Some yards ONLY do full livery and some only DIY, if you have to choose id go for Full as you have more quality time with your horse and if you go somewhere decent you know they will only receive the best care.
 
TarrSteps said:
I know in areas where DIY isn't common (most of North America for a start) people routinely overestimate the "profit margin" of boarding horses and are usually quite shocked if they get their own place and have the horses at home.
Click to expand...

LOL, don't they just:)
If you bear in mind that putting up a stable is going to cost you one way or another £1k, how many weeks do you have to rent it out for to get to break even point? How about the money we spend to buy the property?
Not to mention fields/maintenance etc...
The only way a DIY livery could cover my costs would be having ridiculous amount of stables...
 
its all swings and roundabouts! but full/part livery (ie everything supplied all stable and field duties done bar grooming and exercise and tack) is probably cheaper in the long run! it seems expensive as its money out in one swoop! as opposed to the extra petrol, more milage on your car, more wear on your tyres, the travelling time twice a day, the time involved doing the mucking out, rugs, feeding,pooh picking etc, not forgetting all those extra trips to collect feed/bedding/ hay etc! finding someone reliable to cover your lie ins and holidays, etc etc! at the end of the day it is up to the individual! and how much time they have to do their horse and of course dont forget that standards both in DIY and full/part packages vary enormously!
 
There is also a wide range of prices of DIY livery I know yards in the London area that offer DIY for £80 a month compared to full livery yards of £650 or more.

The cheapest DIY is always going to be cheaper than a full livery yard - the part/full livery yards tend to have better facilities than the cheaper perhaps farm based DIY yard with no school.

However for the YO to be able to get the discounts on bulk buying everyone has to be on the same sort of feed and bedding. If you horse has special dietary requirements then you can expect to pay extra or have to buy in your own feeds and certainly supplements won't be included and they may not be able to do things like soak and double haynet hay if you have a fattie or may not be willing to feed ad lib hay if you have a skinny.

Full or part livery will only be good value if the standard diet and service is just what your horse needs and you don't need any extra or more is not provided than you need.

I am on a DIY yard with services we still benefit from bulk buying as YO buys in hay and we can get that at a reasonable price of £3.50 a bale (I am sure she pays a bit less so gets a profit on that and bedding).

I do think though most people are not on full livery because it is cheaper but because it fits in better with their lifestyle.
 
martlin said:
Hmm, I'm not so sure, I'll give you an example:
Part livery at mine for £59, you just need to turn up and ride, the horse is bedded/hayed/watered/fed for you.
DIY:
£25 a week stable and field (going rate around me)
£12 4 bales of hay a week
£3 a third of bag of chaff a week
£10 a bag of mix/cubes a week
£1 a sixth of bag sugar beet
£4 2 bales of straw a week
Click to expand...

Your livery prices are so cheap! - PL near me is £100 per week. DIY is infinitely cheaper by about 50% in the winter - even with additional services 3 times a week, and by about £70% in the summer when they're out all the time and we're not paying for bedding.

Time is an issue though due to work, but even having been FL/PL for over 10 years and working long hours I decided I couldn't carry on paying PL/FL prices.

I need to move areas.... :)
 
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