Is it ok to keep horse this way?

I dont believe for a second horses kept in stalls for long periods are "happy and healthy". We all know stabling isnt good for their respiratory systems (ok, in this case there is no bedding but I imagine breathing in amonia and dust all day and night isnt good for them) and standing about not moving much certainly wont do a horse any favours. Just because the horse isnt standing there with his head on the floor looking miserable doesnt mean he's "happy". Just because they tolerate it, doesnt mean they wouldn't prefer to be out in a field!

DragonSlayer - I agree riding horses is not natural, but surely we should try and keep them as natural as possible at the very least giving them basic requirements such as 24/7 access to water and food as well as somewhere where they have space to move around?

Horsesgalore - Dont believe its extreme at all. How the farmer is keeping these horses is extreme. Imagine if a heap of dogs were tied up facing a concrete wall all day (and permanently during the winter) with limited water and food - I'm pretty certain you'd all think that was horrifically cruel. Why then any different with a horse who is designed to roam and graze?!

Fairynuff - I totally agree about stopping treating horses like crystal therefore why dont people simply chuck them out in fields permanently? Far less work for all involved. Why do so many people wrap them in cotton wool by stabling / stalling all the time?
 
I have no problem with it. I too, remember the horses in the RS kept this way. Also, where I rode/helped/worked we have 5 hunters kept this way. Were they turned out? No. Did they ever have respiratory problems? No. Were they well mannered? Yes. Were they super fit? Yes

Whilst these days mucking out with a horse in the stable is a big no,no........I have to say that mucking out a horse in a stall really teaches behaviour. They stand they move over, forward and back as requested.......because they would get a prod or a whack if they didn't. No, not cruel....just manners. There are too many badly behaved horses today who live so called "ideal" existances in colour co ordinated rugs with matching headcollars.
 
I have worked with working carriage horses. They were out at night - tethered, which was the most economical way to use the grass (the tethers were moved a few feet each day, so they always had fresh grass each night). In the morning they came into their stalls, were fed and groomed and then worked all day. They were watered at specific times during the day, and had no access to water in their stalls. In the winter this routine was reversed (although they didn't work much in the winter - it was a summer tourist thing) These horses were exceptionally fit and happy, they loved their routine, and were most upset if it changed. So there are two big current no-no's; tethering and stalling!
 
MagicMelon said:
I dont believe for a second horses kept in stalls for long periods are "happy and healthy". We all know stabling isnt good for their respiratory systems (ok, in this case there is no bedding but I imagine breathing in amonia and dust all day and night isnt good for them) and standing about not moving much certainly wont do a horse any favours. Just because the horse isnt standing there with his head on the floor looking miserable doesnt mean he's "happy". Just because they tolerate it, doesnt mean they wouldn't prefer to be out in a field!

DragonSlayer - I agree riding horses is not natural, but surely we should try and keep them as natural as possible at the very least giving them basic requirements such as 24/7 access to water and food as well as somewhere where they have space to move around?

Horsesgalore - Dont believe its extreme at all. How the farmer is keeping these horses is extreme. Imagine if a heap of dogs were tied up facing a concrete wall all day (and permanently during the winter) with limited water and food - I'm pretty certain you'd all think that was horrifically cruel. Why then any different with a horse who is designed to roam and graze?!

Fairynuff - I totally agree about stopping treating horses like crystal therefore why dont people simply chuck them out in fields permanently? Far less work for all involved. Why do so many people wrap them in cotton wool by stabling / stalling all the time?
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I am all for horses being out as much as possible, but there are times when they need to be brought in, especially working horses, those good doers that would be seriously obese out unrestricted 24/7, those prone to mud fever, laminitis etc etc...I'm sure all stabled horses would prefer to be out in the field, although there are those that seem to prefer to be in when it's too hot or wet or flies are an issue.

I don't think stalling is 'horrifically cruel' - they can face the other way in many stalls so they aren't facing the wall, and even if they face the wall all the time it is different to a dog facing a wall, a dog's field of vision is 240 degrees compared to a horse's of 350 degrees and as I said before some horses actually have fewer stereotypical behaviours in comparison to their boxed counterparts, presumably due to the increased contact with other horses, which seems more important to them than being confined; so I'd suggest that if stalling is 'horrifically cruel' then so is stabling at all. Dogs also rely far more on human interaction than horses and they do get 'crated' which would be as restrictive as being tied up.

Food does not have to be available 24 hours a day, which could create problems for some horses, little and often is far better and water is fine if offered at regular intervals, although personally I'd provide water all the time.

I strongly suspect that these horses will have regular food, water and bedding as well as regular turn out/work over the winter which is certainly what most stabled horses will get.
 
Touchstone beat me to it on the field of vision thing. Horses cant actually see immediately in front of them, where the wall is if stalled in that direction. They can however see either side and back, where their mates and the bars are.

A well known equestrian college around here uses stalls. Theirs are cross tied on headcollars (they face outwards) and until last year had breast bars/straps, but we were forever disentangling hopeful escapees or ponies with itchy manes who got their heads underneath but couldn't get it back. :rolleyes: They do have water and bedding, and are in it for up to 8 hours, turned out at night. Then during the 8 hours they are brought out once for a muck out and groom, twice to be ridden for an hour, and usually at least once for some other student practical.

What many contributors to this thread may not be taking into account is the time these horses are being worked. I would imagine they are out of the stall repeatedly fof that, and probably offered water at the end of each ride. The op has said they get hay at the beginning of each ride.
 
I can honestly say that ours cope with no issues,
some pics of our depressed stalled horses:

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really miserable, as you can see!
I can't see how anyone can say something is cruel without seeing the animals themselves!
 
Still do not agree that keeping horses stalled 24/7 over winter is acceptable - sorry but a nice pic of a few horses with a bit of hoof oil on is not going to change my mind on that one. In a stable is bad enough but from the OPs description, these horses cannot even turn round! If you went to view a yard and the only place to keep your horse all winter was a 4 ft x 10 ft stall I bet you would be walking away.

Anyway -off to see my horse now who after 2 weeks box rest is desperate to get in the field again. Or would she have been pefectly fine if it was a stall - i think not!
 
But if you actually read the first post the op stated that the horses will be ridden and having a walk out for a leg stretch. The same as ours do. Like the horses in the original post ours are ridden, hand grazed and turned loose in the school when possible. The other alternative is to put them out in boggy clay field with no grass and hay squashed into the floor.When it pouring with rain and blowing a gale and They are up to their eyeballs in mud, that's when they look miserable
To add to things, our fields involve walking along roads. Impossible in snow and ice, therefore They have to be in
They are out all year in the summer But come the winter months then needs must, as I imagine is the case for the farmer.
Our inspectors wholeheartedly agree with the way we keep them. When They were out in clay all through the winter months they had far more medical issues then they ever do when they come in.
 
Just to add, in a stalling system the dust and smell is far less as they Are in open barns rather than inclosed stables
. Also stalls that atr designed for the purpose are built on a slight slope allowing drainage
They are still mucked out every day as a stable is and the horses are removed when mucked out.
 
MagicMelon said:
Just because they tolerate it, doesnt mean they wouldn't prefer to be out in a field!

Fairynuff - I totally agree about stopping treating horses like crystal therefore why dont people simply chuck them out in fields permanently? Far less work for all involved. Why do so many people wrap them in cotton wool by stabling / stalling all the time?
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Right MagicMelon you tell my 17yr old TB when its gale force wind and a hounding gale or icy and snowy he has to go out to his field as that its better for him and natural for him cause he would tell you different. When he dont want to go out he will stand at back of stable and with the door open and still wont come out. He has actually boken out the field to put himself back to his stable to get out of the bad weather cause that is what he wants. Even with 340g rug on he rather be wrapped up in cotton wool and stay in warm and the dry. He stayed in for 4 days straight last winter cause he didnt want to come out. That was his choice and he was very happy. Now call me cruel for letting him decided
 
handleycross- couldn't agree more!!
To add, when you are a commercial riding school it is near on impossible to keep horses that are out in mud pits clean, clipped, warm and well fed enough to do a job. By bringing them into the stalls ( ok, in an ideal world stables must do you know how much square footage it takes to house 40 horses in stables???) it means we are able to clip, rug and monitor the amount of hay, feed and water then eat.
The result is much healthier animals that hold their weight well.
Oh and we could argue that 'just because they tolerate being in a field in the mud and rain doesn't mean they wouldn't prefer in a stable!'
 
charlie 76 i totally agree and understand as have worked in RS it is easier and healthier. One horse I cared for was stabled when I first started and he was the sort of horse you wouldnt go in to the stable with, but in a stall he was like a lamb. In my eyes that was better for his well being and state of mind then being dangerous in a loose box
 
Haven't read it all but a few points:
A lot of horses who are in stables have their beds up during the day, or a small day bed down, they stand on concrete most of the time so no different to standing in a stall.
People who say horses must have access to water at all times I assume you never go for a days hunting, or even a long hack?
As someone said at the start, think of horses in Morocco, if his horses look well and are calm and happy then they are being treated OK.
 
I think its wrong to state what makes a horse happy or unhappy anyway. Surely the proof is in the pudding. If a horse looks well, has a good coat, is fit, well, healthy and happy in its work then they must feel happy and well enough it themselves. I have seen plenty of evidently happy horses living in stables and stalls and likewise out in the field but I have seen plenty that are unhappy in both situations.
IME, its the management of each horse that matters, each INDIVIDUAL horse. If we had a horse that was desperatley unhappy in the way we keep them we would sell the horse on.
But TBH, most adapt to the routine quite happily.

Horses tolerate a lot of things, having a rider on their back is one of them! As is being driven, jumping fences ect ect. I imagine having a rider on it is the biggest form of toleration they go through!
 
vickyb said:
I have worked with working carriage horses. They were out at night - tethered, which was the most economical way to use the grass (the tethers were moved a few feet each day, so they always had fresh grass each night). In the morning they came into their stalls, were fed and groomed and then worked all day. They were watered at specific times during the day, and had no access to water in their stalls. In the winter this routine was reversed (although they didn't work much in the winter - it was a summer tourist thing) These horses were exceptionally fit and happy, they loved their routine, and were most upset if it changed. So there are two big current no-no's; tethering and stalling!
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Hello vickyb I suppose this is a question to anyone who tethers in the field as I am unfamiliar with it myself. How were they tethered and what stopped the lead from getting wrapped around their legs or did they have enough sense?

I used to be against stalls but feel that I am more informed after reading this thread. Thanks all.
 
Keeping horses this way for more than the odd day/night is not I believe in their best interests.
I'm sure they appreciate the lovely decor in some of the set ups pictured though. :cool:
 
Its ok to keep horses stalled provided they have enough food and water and exercise on a regular routine basis. What is wrong is keeping horses stalled all winter and not turned out or ridden at all. my late in laws kept cows,they were tied up in a stall each from october til May ,no bedding given unless they were actually carving. they even carved tied up in the stall. they were fed hay and cow corn twice a day and mucked out twice a day. they had automatic waterers. they were turned out to grass in May of each year.
I suspect the farmer in the OP's original post is keeping his horses like this. This is wrong and needs to be reported.
 
Horsesforever1 said:
Its ok to keep horses stalled provided they have enough food and water and exercise on a regular routine basis. What is wrong is keeping horses stalled all winter and not turned out or ridden at all. my late in laws kept cows,they were tied up in a stall each from october til May ,no bedding given unless they were actually carving. they even carved tied up in the stall. they were fed hay and cow corn twice a day and mucked out twice a day. they had automatic waterers. they were turned out to grass in May of each year.
I suspect the farmer in the OP's original post is keeping his horses like this. This is wrong and needs to be reported.
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The OP has said that the horses are ridden once a day and turned out for a leg stretch, so they aren't in 24/7, and I would imagine that they will be hayed/fed/watered and bedded down as necessary.
 
Horsesforever1 said:
Its ok to keep horses stalled provided they have enough food and water and exercise on a regular routine basis. What is wrong is keeping horses stalled all winter and not turned out or ridden at all. my late in laws kept cows,they were tied up in a stall each from october til May ,no bedding given unless they were actually carving. they even carved tied up in the stall. they were fed hay and cow corn twice a day and mucked out twice a day. they had automatic waterers. they were turned out to grass in May of each year.
I suspect the farmer in the OP's original post is keeping his horses like this. This is wrong and needs to be reported.
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The OP was very clear I feel, in saying the horses were out in the field at night.
 
MagicMelon said:
Wow, Im shocked at some of the reponses on here saying its fine and perfectly normal. Just because the horses look fit and well doesnt mean they're not mentally trying to kill themselves! QUOTE]

I don't really understand this comment. How else can we tell that a horse is mentally well other than looking at its condition and behaviour? These horses are described by the OP as calm, well behaved, happy to canter in from the field, and playful. If you think a horse thus described could be "mentally trying to kill themselves" surely that could be true of any of our horses?
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LouandBee said:
Still do not agree that keeping horses stalled 24/7 over winter is acceptable - sorry but a nice pic of a few horses with a bit of hoof oil on is not going to change my mind on that one. In a stable is bad enough but from the OPs description, these horses cannot even turn round! If you went to view a yard and the only place to keep your horse all winter was a 4 ft x 10 ft stall I bet you would be walking away.

Anyway -off to see my horse now who after 2 weeks box rest is desperate to get in the field again. Or would she have been pefectly fine if it was a stall - i think not!
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In the pictures u can see these horses are healthy and well by their coats. Lovely glossy coat not something you see in a unhappy mis-treated horse
 
IMO stalls are OK for a short amount of time as long as they have bedding enough to provide safe traction and access to hay and water.

Keeping horses like that all day is just not acceptable to me. Queen or not, I would vote with my feet.

Horses adapt and survive. It doesn't make them content.

The fact that it was the old fashioned way means nothing to me. It's the old fashioned way for a reason.

If the farmer wanted to save his fields for the winter, then a track system would be a much better way to keep them for the night.
 
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