Is it right to rescue.?

The yard I am at has a family that own 2 horses - both allegedly "rescued" by the people they bought from. One, quite frankly, will never be sound & should have been PTS by previous owner & not sold for less than the price of a meal out. The other is an unpassported (forms now filled in at least) & badly put together pony. Bought as a 3yo it's nearer 2 & probably pregnant - vet can't conform without scan or blood test that they can't afford. Other horses tendon injury not seen by a vet because they can't afford it. These people only got their horses in the last 3 months. The owners are very, very novice. The rest of us regularly have to give theirs extra hay because they seem incapable of understanding that if a 17.2 tb has run out of hay by 10pm EVERY evening then they need to up the amount they are giving it.
For the last 3 months they have had other people trying to help & teach them & it has saved the horses a lot (e.g horse turned out in a heavy weight full neck stable rug on a mild but very rainy day, horse left in stable for 2 days with no hay, pony with badly tied hay net wrapped around neck & leg) but yard is closing in a few weeks - they are talking about renting a place on their own, going to see it today. I'm hardassed enough to realise that both will be better off pts.
 
Excuse my ignorance, but are abattoirs in the UK handling horses for meat at all any longer? I don't live there, you see. Certainly here it is always possible to get a meat price (well, almost always, depending on medication) for a horse which is surplus to requirements which does help with matters to an extent.
 
Arizahn said:
Problem is, we have three types of people that take on rescues.

One type knows that the animal will be hard to care for, but does not mind and is prepared to do whatever is needed, and can manage.

One type means well, but has never experienced rescued animals before. This person may manage with enough support, or may be overwhelmed.

And one type just enjoys the warm glow of doing a good deed, and cannot manage the animal properly, so it becomes a problem for others too, but that is fine, because it is a rescue and supposed to have issues. They will not acknowledge that they are in fact making the animal worse by their inaction. They may also pass it on to other would be rescuers, without warning them about its issues (see above). This type of rescuer would be up in arms at what Spain does. (They would protest loudly whilst their collection of mismanaged rescue animals fell apart around them, both mentally, emotionally and sometimes physically.)

Am bitter. Sorry.
Click to expand...

I have a rescue & am in cat A. My pony had a lot of behaviour issues but is now a real sweety. As others have said, why do people keep breeding!!
 
Arizahn said:
Problem is, we have three types of people that take on rescues.

One type knows that the animal will be hard to care for, but does not mind and is prepared to do whatever is needed, and can manage.

One type means well, but has never experienced rescued animals before. This person may manage with enough support, or may be overwhelmed.

And one type just enjoys the warm glow of doing a good deed, and cannot manage the animal properly, so it becomes a problem for others too, but that is fine, because it is a rescue and supposed to have issues. They will not acknowledge that they are in fact making the animal worse by their inaction. They may also pass it on to other would be rescuers, without warning them about its issues (see above). This type of rescuer would be up in arms at what Spain does. (They would protest loudly whilst their collection of mismanaged rescue animals fell apart around them, both mentally, emotionally and sometimes physically.)

Am bitter. Sorry.
Click to expand...


Well I wouldn't necessarily fit my rescue or me into any of the above I suppose A if I had to, but pony does not have any behavioural problems at all, is a dime of a pony. Only thing is he's young and green but then you can have that with any youngster so not a 'rescue' associated thing!!!
 
YorksG said:
40 years ago (nearly) my parents bought a 12 year old ride and drive gelding for my sister and me. He cost 180 pounds. His equivalent went through York sales recently, for less than we paid for him then. Back then we had a local horse abbatoir, which also dealt with fallen stock. This abbatoir did a fantastic job, paying for dead weight for unwanted animals. The abbatoir closed, as did many others following the introduction of new rules. It closed as the firm could not afford to upgrade the facility. Itis now a pet crematorium, which still provides an escellent service to pet owners, it now costs for the owners to have their animals euthenased. If there were the opportunity for breeders of less useful animals to sell to small local abbatoirs, then the current crisis would be considerably reduced.
Click to expand...

I do agree with this ^^. I believe throughout the whole of the england there's only 2 abbatoirs that take horses and they've (quite rightly) tightened up passport checks etc. Most of these abandoned horses etc are not passported therefore cannot enter the food chain, therefore cannot go I believe to the abbatoir. I agree if we in the uk made horsemeat an option for people (don't get me wrong I would never eat it, but surely that's the joy of free choice) tightened up identification/passport issues to fall in line with cattle etc. Then the 'low' end equine market will have an outlet once again. You will still have those people that mean well and go to the sales 'buying' these horses to 'save them from the meat man' and then try to rehome them for pennies though :(
 
Not sure that would work. Most of the low end horse breeding in France is for the meat market. The one thing that drives meat pony prices up is people buying them to rescue them from slaughter.
 
Booboos said:
Not sure that would work. Most of the low end horse breeding in France is for the meat market. The one thing that drives meat pony prices up is people buying them to rescue them from slaughter.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how much this really goes on. One hears sometimes of loony expats saving a three-legged blind donkey from the abattoir, but whether it's widespread or not...

That said, I noticed that when the UK woke up to the high level of ground dobbin in their hamburgers and frozen cottage pies the price of horseflesh here fell off dramatically. This suited us because we were shopping for a replacement for our old mare (went down with what I think is called in english recurrent airway obstruction due to having been over boxed - not by us - and is now living out a slightly wheezy though painfree outdoor retirement on some very good pasture because we are sentimental and owe her a lot for the fine education she gave us) and managed to get real bargain.

I notice that horse prices are on the rise again, which is unusual before winter. What can it all mean ?? :biggrin3:
 
My French equine vet has just 'saved' a 2.5 year old filly from the meat man so she could grow and learn together with her 2.5yo child.

Of couse this in itself doesn't prove anything but I suspect the folly is spreading from the expats to the natives. Responsible French equine rescue organisations have campaigns against this so it can't be that rare.
 
Booboos said:
My French equine vet has just 'saved' a 2.5 year old filly from the meat man so she could grow and learn together with her 2.5yo child.

Of couse this in itself doesn't prove anything but I suspect the folly is spreading from the expats to the natives. Responsible French equine rescue organisations have campaigns against this so it can't be that rare.
Click to expand...

You will always get those who want to save animals from the meat market, just look at Hillside, they have 310 cattle, 104 pigs and 504 sheep at their sanctuary. I'm not saying it's wrong and if someone can save an animal from the market and keep it within the law then that's their choice, but surely by opening up the meat trade and these people bidding over the meat man you are in actual fact raising the equine market??? are you not?
 
I would (not happily) pull the trigger if needed. I absolute hate seeing neglected horses and all because people simply cannot afford. If it meant that a long-suffering animal would be put out of it's misery, well, it's a no brainer for me.
 
Hippona said:
Indeed.
I'll probably get flamed.....but.....Possibly a mass cull is in order.
Round up all the poorly bred, neglected and fly grazed animals littering the country and have them humanely destroyed. Got to be cheaper in the long run than keeping them when nobody wants them and its better than them being neglected.
Have registered breeders only.
.
Click to expand...


Me too!

I couldn't agree more with this. There are far too many crapola horses and ponies that should never be kept alive (let alone bred in the first place but the people that are heeding the 'don't cover your mares' are not the ones that need to stop breeding. If nobody bred another cob cross for the next ten years there would still be too many that need rescuing)
I can't understand why rescue centres spend hundreds on trying to fix something that would be better put down, it is such a waste of resources and until people stop playing the cute, he can't be put down' card the problem will continue to get worse.

I do think there should be a putting down amnesty or at least make it more affordable which should half the amount of animals being dumped because the owners can't afford to either keep or put down and it shouldn't matter if they have a passport or not, those could go to the zoos. Colts should go back to being inspected and licensed (including the traditionals whether the travellers like it or not) and anything refused a license should be castrated within one month. The moors and forests should be only there for registered native breeds, things like the part breds on the New Forest, the Dartmoor Hill Pony and those scraps on Bodmin Moor should all be removed and put down, they are not treasures, they are an abomination and taking resources away from the proper natives.

One of the worst things (for me) to see are the adverts for old horses being moved on in the twilight of their lives, many of them after a lifetime in the same home. Those owners are absolutely chicken and don't deserve their horses, they should do the fair thing for the horses and not ask them to move away from all they know at that time of life and to an uncertain future.

I can hear the screams of rage from here but I bet they won't be from people who realize we are in a serious situation which needs drastic measures and unless we have the balls to deal with it, we'll be in an even worse situation with every increasing year.
 
I have to agree, I think a mass cull would be the answer. I absolutely adore every single equine out there but it really would help in the long term.

I have no doubt I may ruffle a few feathers with this comment.
 
Maesfen said:
Me too!

I couldn't agree more with this. There are far too many crapola horses and ponies that should never be kept alive (let alone bred in the first place but the people that are heeding the 'don't cover your mares' are not the ones that need to stop breeding. If nobody bred another cob cross for the next ten years there would still be too many that need rescuing)
I can't understand why rescue centres spend hundreds on trying to fix something that would be better put down, it is such a waste of resources and until people stop playing the cute, he can't be put down' card the problem will continue to get worse.

I do think there should be a putting down amnesty or at least make it more affordable which should half the amount of animals being dumped because the owners can't afford to either keep or put down and it shouldn't matter if they have a passport or not, those could go to the zoos. Colts should go back to being inspected and licensed (including the traditionals whether the travellers like it or not) and anything refused a license should be castrated within one month. The moors and forests should be only there for registered native breeds, things like the part breds on the New Forest, the Dartmoor Hill Pony and those scraps on Bodmin Moor should all be removed and put down, they are not treasures, they are an abomination and taking resources away from the proper natives.

One of the worst things (for me) to see are the adverts for old horses being moved on in the twilight of their lives, many of them after a lifetime in the same home. Those owners are absolutely chicken and don't deserve their horses, they should do the fair thing for the horses and not ask them to move away from all they know at that time of life and to an uncertain future.

I can hear the screams of rage from here but I bet they won't be from people who realize we are in a serious situation which needs drastic measures and unless we have the balls to deal with it, we'll be in an even worse situation with every increasing year.
Click to expand...

I agree with most if not all of this. But can you imagine the headlines if say the RSPCA (as other rescues seem to be able to say no when they are full) ended up PTS'ing loads of horses, which lets face it is not an unrealistic outlook when you have the 40 or so horses in one area taken in and the 250 gower horses they're currently dealing with!!! Everyone would be up in arms slating the RSPCA saying they're trigger happy!!!

If mass culling is to be the answer then it cannot be a charity (which depends on donations in order for it to exist) that is left to deal with it or left to pick up the pieces, which currently lets face it they are. It needs to be a government scheme set up.....
 
competitiondiva said:
I agree with most if not all of this. But can you imagine the headlines if say the RSPCA (as other rescues seem to be able to say no when they are full) ended up PTS'ing loads of horses, which lets face it is not an unrealistic outlook when you have the 40 or so horses in one area taken in and the 250 gower horses they're currently dealing with!!! Everyone would be up in arms slating the RSPCA saying they're trigger happy!!!

If mass culling is to be the answer then it cannot be a charity (which depends on donations in order for it to exist) that is left to deal with it or left to pick up the pieces, which currently lets face it they are. It needs to be a government scheme set up.....
Click to expand...

No, we need someone competent in charge, which automatically rules out the government!
 
CrazyCobLady said:
I think there'll be a lot of people complaining against it but it's got to a tipping point now.
Click to expand...

Yes there will, which is why we're in the situation we are!! :( it needs to be worded very well and put across that the current situation the UK is in and the strain on the equine charities cannot continue.
 
competitiondiva said:
Yes there will, which is why we're in the situation we are!! :( it needs to be worded very well and put across that the current situation the UK is in and the strain on the equine charities cannot continue.
Click to expand...

I hate to think that i'm agreeing to the mass-cull of horses, I do not know what is best anymore.
 
CrazyCobLady said:
I hate to think that i'm agreeing to the mass-cull of horses, I do not know what is best anymore.
Click to expand...

Nor me, as I said I have an RSPCA pony who is amazing. I'd hate to think of a future where a pony like him might face this future. But he is one of the lucky ones. Thousands aren't so lucky and with charities at breaking point and the situation not changing I can't see an obvious answer that everyone would agree with.

What I don't understand though is that if horses are worth so little nowadays. Why are the breeders of these horses still breeding them. They're not getting any money back, it's surely costing them more to feed the mare in foal than what the foal is worth? I understand that they then dump said foal, but why then breed another for the following year???????? Seems like double dutch to me!!!
 
Last edited:
competitiondiva said:
Nor me, as I said I have an RSPCA pony who is amazing. I'd hate to think of a future where a pony like him might face this future. But he is one of the lucky ones. Thousands aren't so lucky and with charities at stretching point and the situation not changing I can't see an obvious answer that everyone would agree with.

What I don't understand though is that if horses are worth so little nowadays. Why are the breeders of these horses still breeding them. They're not getting any money back, it's surely costing them more to feed the mare in foal than what the foal is worth? I understand that they then dump said foal, but why then breed another for the following year???????? Seems like double dutch to me!!!
Click to expand...

Trouble is, the breeders you're talking about very rarely actually do anything with them other than provide them with a field; some wouldn't have a clue if a mare was in season or leave colts in with fillies even when they become of breeding age. In short, they just want them to produce as many as possible and it doesn't matter whether it's father to mother, brother to sister, father to daughter etc; they don't give a damn and they don't take good care of them, they think they're doing them well if they have a decent field, that's the sum of their involvement.
 
Sadly I think it's going to continue.
If only there were certified breeders who only bred well bred ponies and horses instead of just endlessly breeding from everything that breathes.
 
joeanne said:
I agree Arizhan.....problem is the RIGHT type of person that can rescue is full to bursting. There is no space. Anywhere.
Culling would do two things, it would reduce the numbers of unwanted horses and ponies immediately, and secondly, if someone knew his seized, neglected, and often fly grazed stock was to be slaughtered, it would provide a good deterent preventing a good deal of the problem in the first place.
Click to expand...

Whilst I agree with your sentiments, I'm not sure that it would be a good deterrent - after all they would have to be pts at someone else's expense - but at least those particualr animals couldn't continue to breed.
All stallions should *have* to be licensed, imo and registered with a breed society or other similar association, that might help stop at least some of the indiscriminate breeding. But of course, the scheme would have to be monitored and DEFRA would have to organise it, so we've no chance.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Whilst I agree with your sentiments, I'm not sure that it would be a good deterrent - after all they would have to be pts at someone else's expense - but at least those particualr animals couldn't continue to breed.
All stallions should *have* to be licensed, imo and registered with a breed society or other similar association, that might help stop at least some of the indiscriminate breeding. But of course, the scheme would have to be monitored and DEFRA would have to organise it, so we've no chance.
Click to expand...

While that would be lovely, there would be no way to monitor the scheme. People wouldn't geld due to the price and for breeding purposes. Very sad.
 
CrazyCobLady said:
Sadly I think it's going to continue.
If only there were certified breeders who only bred well bred ponies and horses instead of just endlessly breeding from everything that breathes.
Click to expand...

lol, read this!! the blurb down the left fits in with your comment "We have been honored and humbled with such accolades as being recognized as the Premier Breeder of our beloved horses, and having raised the first selectively bred horse by Gypsies to be recognized as a breed." !! http://welshgypsyhorses.com/

Then look at who they are!!
 
I think to start this first of all needs to come mandatory and policed/enforced identification. So if a field of horses is located without identification as would happen in the same situation with cattle they are seized/pts, this is your cull. Once you sort out traceability I think this alone will have a knock on affect on the indiscriminate breeding..
 
Maesfen said:
things like the part breds on the New Forest, the Dartmoor Hill Pony and those scraps on Bodmin Moor should all be removed and put down, they are not treasures, they are an abomination/QUOTE]

I have a pony who came off Bodmin Moor and he is very far from being an abomination. (I wish I knew how to post photos.) There are far too many ponies/horses of all types being bred for the current rate of demand. The abominations are the people who breed them in great numbers and neglect them...I would definitely support a mass cull of those people...line 'em up and get me a gun!
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top