Is it time to stop using Police Horses?

[Wishfilly]

Yes I understand that but they are very often attacked by other dogs and are not allowed to display natural behaviour when working. Police dogs and search dogs are put in danger during their work. Its really not black and white.

I agree that police dogs and search and rescue dogs are put in additional danger through their work. Search and rescue dogs, I guess to some extent it is justifiable to save a life?

With assistance dogs being attacked whilst on the lead, I think that's part of a wider issue of dog attacks- my understanding is that they aren't at any more risk than other on lead dogs, and lots of dogs are walked on lead in various areas!

I do think it's worth considering how we view "working animals" in the UK, when in many cases there are other alternatives available, and I agree in many ways it is hard to justify.

 

[cauda equina]

Alternatives like this?

big dog robot us police - Google Suche

I'm sure Boston Dynamics could come up with a horse too

 

[teapot]

The public engagement thing goes both ways though- if people associate horses with police, and the main time they see horses are police/cavalry, it can create negative associations with horses also, which isn't necessarily good for the wider equestrian community.

I think in terms of protests etc, the police should work more towards a de-escalation model, rather than the current model which often winds up crowds and incites violence in itself. I think there are all sorts of issues with using horses to try and instil fear into crowds.

Look at the stats above - far more likely to come across the Met Mounted on a day to day patrol than at a football match (which not everyone goes to)!

Plus it tends to be the more active rival clubs that require the full on battle kit. Some games they’re on duty at the side just for the height advantage, nothing more.

There’s nuance to this, like everything else. I’d sooner look at the ethics of RDA, than mounted police horses imho.

 

[Kaylum]

One thing that needs to be stopped is the expoilation of those poor horses being videoed at Kings horse guards. Idiot tourists going up to them being kissed and cuddled. Have seen horses grabbing hold of kids, hair and a thousand other distasteful videos. Why aren't they behind a barrier. Disrespectful to the horses at its finest.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I don't think police horses should still be a thing for various reasons but I don't want to derail the thread. And @Kaylum I also agree with your post above^ A barrier at least would mitigate the abhorent interference from the public. I also think the Kings horse guards should become history but I can guess they are too much of a visitor attraction thing for tourists.

 

[Goldenstar]

No
The idea that is an area where energy to improve welfare should be directed is ridiculous.
Horses standing knee deep in mud in tiny fields eating forage covered in mud .
Lame sick horses being transported for slaughter
I could go on and on and on .
Police horses are rarely injured if preventing injury is the priority lets campaign to have severe penalties for people who have poor fences .
Or let’s have penalties for people who go too long between shoeings which causes horses quiet misery .
The list is long .

 

[Wishfilly]

Look at the stats above - far more likely to come across the Met Mounted on a day to day patrol than at a football match (which not everyone goes to)!

Plus it tends to be the more active rival clubs that require the full on battle kit. Some games they’re on duty at the side just for the height advantage, nothing more.

There’s nuance to this, like everything else. I’d sooner look at the ethics of RDA, than mounted police horses imho.

People can have negative reactions to the police out on a day to day patrol as well though- especially due to the racist applications of things like stop and search powers. Simply associating horses with police and the military can create negative associations in some people's minds. It's nothing to do with where they are seen.

I agree that there are ethical issues with all sorts of "working" animals, and I think RDA horses (and all riding school horses) fall into that category- I'd happily discuss that on a thread! However I do think the RDA contribute to a positive image of horses/horse ownership, and I don't think the police do, even if they are just on mounted patrol.

 

[Wishfilly]

One thing that needs to be stopped is the expoilation of those poor horses being videoed at Kings horse guards. Idiot tourists going up to them being kissed and cuddled. Have seen horses grabbing hold of kids, hair and a thousand other distasteful videos. Why aren't they behind a barrier. Disrespectful to the horses at its finest.

Agree with this, and I'm not sure it's pleasant for the horses having to stand stock still in that environment for long periods of time. I agree that a barrier could be put in place, but to be honest, is it really necessary in this day and age at all?

 

[holeymoley]

As far as I'm aware if they go in to riot situations they wear face shields. I'd like to see a bit more protection overall on the body and the legs but I'm not sure how far you could go or where you would stop. Up here the police horses are usually just brought out for music festivals or Old Firm match days. I've never been to an old firm game, but I have been to one of the sides for a football match and the horses got no grief what-so ever. They actually done a fabulous job in keeping everyone on a level keel and managed with crowd dispersion at the end of the game. I think the worst that I've heard happen was one got punched in the face, unsure if that was up here or down south. Which is terrible, but you look at certain owners that are out there and what goes on behind closed doors . I think the worst most recent attack on a police horse was last year down south with the dog attack.

 

[Orangehorse]

Animals have always been our servants. Even keeping a horse as a pet, that never does anything apart from being stroked by the owner is up to a point being exploited. Why should someone say "well I keep my horse in perfect conditions, I am a perfect owner and I don't want anyone else to keep one in anything other than these conditions." Would the horse agree, or would it say "I like galloping and jumping and seeing life and things happening in the world. I like to please my rider and learn new things and we go out on adventures together."

We don't know, do we?

As a valuable item, the Police horses are protected as well as they can be, they do a useful job in that the Policeman sitting on top can see a lot and their presence can help calm a crowd, or cower a crowd.

Ultimately, a horse is expendable. But then I am a farmer so we are exploiting animals all day every day ...........................

 

[SEL]

I think if we start to disprove of working horses we're on a slippery slope. What are the injury statistics with horses on duty? How do they compare to eventing, hunting, racing?

The police horses have a good life and many retire from duty pretty early too

 

[Rowreach]

One thing that needs to be stopped is the expoilation of those poor horses being videoed at Kings horse guards. Idiot tourists going up to them being kissed and cuddled. Have seen horses grabbing hold of kids, hair and a thousand other distasteful videos. Why aren't they behind a barrier. Disrespectful to the horses at its finest.

Totally agree with this, I'm pretty sick of seeing these videos, and it's fairly obvious that the number of "attacks" by the horses is down to them being bored senseless and utterly pissed off with the job.

 

[Cortez]

Totally agree with this, I'm pretty sick of seeing these videos, and it's fairly obvious that the number of "attacks" by the horses is down to them being bored senseless and utterly pissed off with the job.

If a horse can't stand still for one hour (the length of the duty), once a week, then it's training is pretty poor. The incidents with tourists interacting with the horses are entirely the fault of said idiots, not the horses' at all. However I do agree that some form of a barrier would protect the poor guardsmen and their mounts from interference. They are allowed to shout at the people touching the horse, which must give them a bit of satisfaction.

 

[palo1]

A police horse provides some quite unique benefits in a public order environment: the height provides very useful visuals for an officer, horses are a novelty to a crowd so can help with diluting tension as well as being simply physically intimidating enough to deter some folks from acting anti-socially and generally people would rather not lash out at an animal where they might at an on the ground officer. Protection for horses maybe needs improving but I don't think getting rid of them would be much of a welfare achievement.

For some people, a police horse will be one of the very few contacts they have with an animal and for me, if we are going to promote animal welfare more widely, as well as animal and habitat conservation, losing connection with animals would be a big negative. A bigger issue than their duties might be their wider environment and management but if you are going down that road, then many other horses and their activities should be scrutinised.

 

[Rowreach]

If a horse can't stand still for one hour (the length of the duty), once a week, then it's training is pretty poor. The incidents with tourists interacting with the horses are entirely the fault of said idiots, not the horses' at all. However I do agree that some form of a barrier would protect the poor guardsmen and their mounts from interference. They are allowed to shout at the people touching the horse, which must be some source of solace.

I will respectfully disagree, I don't see why any horse should be expected to stand still on one spot for an hour, in all sorts of weather conditions, for the sake of an outdated ceremony, let alone be exposed to the sort of idiots who want to have their photo taken alongside it.

 

[Cortez]

A police horse provides some quite unique benefits in a public order environment: the height provides very useful visuals for an officer, horses are a novelty to a crowd so can help with diluting tension as well as being simply physically intimidating enough to deter some folks from acting anti-socially and generally people would rather not lash out at an animal where they might at an on the ground officer. Protection for horses maybe needs improving but I don't think getting rid of them would be much of a welfare achievement.

For some people, a police horse will be one of the very few contacts they have with an animal and for me, if we are going to promote animal welfare more widely, as well as animal and habitat conservation, losing connection with animals would be a big negative. A bigger issue than their duties might be their wider environment and management but if you are going down that road, then many other horses and their activities should be scrutinised.

Well, it'd be a great welfare improvement for the horses, not having to face a bunch of angry, aggressive humans. We all know how horses love to run into that sort of a situation.......

And I'm not sure how beneficial for promoting a love of animals being charged at by half a ton of horse would be either, although there might indeed be a "connection" it won't be a very positive one.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Yes I think it’s time to stop using them.
For me it’s the danger we are putting them in.

 

[druid]

What about police and military dogs? Detection dogs?

 

[Moobli]

Military war dogs, police horses… mostly loved and cared for. Some element of risk to the job. Relatively low numbers.

Cows, pigs, sheep, intensive poultry farming. Often horrific conditions for their entire short lives. Large numbers.

I’m just maybe a bit too straightforward in my thinking. If we’re going to complain about animal treatment, surely we should start with the ones whose lives are the worst, in the largest numbers, rather than just the ones we actually see the most, if that makes sense?

I beg to differ with sheep. Our hill sheep live a very good life but do t wish to derail the intended topic.

 

[teapot]

If we're going to talk about the Household Cavalry on mounted duty, then please also take issue with how they're kept back at the barracks in Knightsbridge. Boxes or stalls, turnout x times a year in one go etc, and ridden during the week in perhaps not the most sensitive/modern way either.

 

[teapot]

People can have negative reactions to the police out on a day to day patrol as well though- especially due to the racist applications of things like stop and search powers. Simply associating horses with police and the military can create negative associations in some people's minds. It's nothing to do with where they are seen.

I agree that there are ethical issues with all sorts of "working" animals, and I think RDA horses (and all riding school horses) fall into that category- I'd happily discuss that on a thread! However I do think the RDA contribute to a positive image of horses/horse ownership, and I don't think the police do, even if they are just on mounted patrol.

If someone equated a mounted copper charging at a football crowd with your average happy hacker, I'd be questioning their general life thought process. That's akin to likening the armed response units to your local shoot, or working dog units with average dog owners...

I think people will have negative thougts towards the police regardless of what they're using to aid their job frankly.

 

[Moobli]

Police horses are extremely well looked after and cared for, and they are given intensive training to cope with incidents they attend as well as being chosen for a steady temperament. They give officers a unique vantage point, can actually help to de-escalate a situation, and help the public engage with the police in a positive way. They can get to locations unreachable by car and can steer through crowds more easily.
I think they are a very valuable resource and I wouldn’t like to see their numbers decreased or for them to be stopped from service altogether.

 

[ycbm]

An interesting and civilised discussion, thanks everyone.

The height advantage and access advantages mentioned above can be more than matched by drones and scrambler bikes.

I'm puzzled more people don't see a difference between using a horse because you know it's going to face violence (even if that's only verbal) and horses being unintentionally hurt in other activities.

I'm going to check back to this thread the first time an on duty police horse has its tendons severed at the back of a leg by a machete and see how people feel then.
.

 

[Janique]

It's an easy question to answer, just look at other countries !

How many others countries have police horses ?

I am not sure but most of them don't and the security is the same.

I think, it should stop, it's an old tradition but in the modern day, not worth hurting horses...

 

[teapot]

It's an easy question to answer, just look at other countries !

How many others countries have police horses ?

I am not sure but most of them don't and the security is the same.

I think, it should stop, it's an old tradition but in the modern day, not worth hurting horses...

A lot of countries have mounted police! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mounted_police_units

 

[stormox]

What difference is there between police using dogs, or using horses?
Stop one you have to stop the other.

 

[Cortez]

What difference is there between police using dogs, or using horses?
Stop one you have to stop the other.

Dogs are not flight animals and quite enjoy a bit of a ruckus. I am not not excusing their liability to get hurt in any way.

 

[stormox]

Dogs are not flight animals and quite enjoy a bit of a ruckus. I am not not excusing their liability to get hurt in any way.

Just as likely (or more so) to get killed or injured on our behalf. I doubt any dog would enjoy being knifed, or shot!

 

[Cortez]

Just as likely (or more so) to get killed or injured on our behalf. I doubt any dog would enjoy being knifed, or shot!

Of course, that is the ethical conundrum whenever we use animals in our service. But it seems to me to be even more distasteful to use animals whose every instinct is to run away in situations involving aggression and violence.

 

[Smitty]

I think it is time to relieve these poor animals of their "duty". Why should they be subjected to physical abuse by the public.

I am also going to say some I have seen at close quarters often seem unsound. Not sure if this I due to time spent on hard surfaces or management.