Is it unresonable to keep horses in on xmas/boxing day?

[ILuvCowparsely]

you are making colic more likely by changing routine-we're assuming this is in terms of horses turned out during the day just not being turned out.

in the 6 years we change to this keeping them in not one horse has had colic because her was left in.

* says to self calm down lol *

well i am not alone in keeping horses in as many say just accept or find a yard that turns out xmas .

causes of colic are:

* Blockage of intestine. The intestine can be blocked, preventing the passage of feces and gas (leading to painful bloating). Possible reasons for blocking include
o Dental issues. If the horse is unable to chew its food properly, the inadequately chewed food can form a blockage. This can happen due to dental issues (e.g. teeth worn down or painful) or pain in the jaw joints (making chewing painful). Both conditions are common in older horses due to wear.
o Incorrect food. If a horse eats inappropriate food (such as stall bedding), it may not be adequately brooken down, leading to blockages. Eating of stall bedding (straw, or other types) occurs in many horses, although fortunately in the majority of cases it does not lead to blockage.
o Foreign materials. Many horses ingest foreign materials, which cause blockages. For example, horses that are bedded on sand may ingest some of it (especially if they are fed in their stables and food falls on the sand bedding). Likewise, horses that are on overgrazed pastures may ingest sand and dirt, leading to impaction (or internal abrassion, leading to infection).
o Bolting. Horses that 'bolt' their food (swallow quickly, with inadequate chewing) can have food blockages due to the food being inadequate chewed or inadequated moistened or a combination of the two.
o Water. Insufficient access or consumption of water can result in food drying out in the intestine and forming a blockage.
* Displacement of colon. Variety of causes, including excessive rolling or horse becoming 'trapped' (e.g lying against a wall or fence and unable to get up).
* Intestinal worms. Excessive intestinal worms can cause blockages (or even deadly punctures) of the intestine. For details on worm types, symptoms and treatment, click on Guide to Horse Worming.
* Ulcers. Stomach and intestinal ulcers are relatively common in horses, especially horses which are fed infrequently or fed concentrated food or have limited access to pasture. It is also associated with stress (e.g. frequent transport and showing) and use of certain medications (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs).
* Infections. Various types of infections (e.g. of urogenital or respiratory tract) can result in abdominal pain.

 

[TigerTail]

Yes it is unreasonable if their usual routine is to be turned out, and we interrupt that for human selfishness.
They dont understand Christmas/ Birthdays etc they just know its another new day and no one has come to let them out!

 

[TigerTail]

ok so you were aiming at OP

but we.
do not turn them out period . WE meaning me and my liveries would rather our horses are safe and sound in their stables with treats and hay than out in the field where no one is around all day , vets are on a skeleton over xmas one working so call outs could be long time waiting on these days so are equine hospitals so emergency call outs would be expensive and take longer than normal .

Well you wouldn't be on my yard because i tell people when they view the yard this is what we do, we say dont like it go some where else .

since 1996 all the liveries who have come through our yard said no problem when we told them , I guess some out there understand that yard owners need time out too.

All my liveries are more than happy with our arrangement even the new ones. You cant please everyone thats why there are so many yards you choose one to meet your requirements .

For us this works gives me and my family time to see each other and be a family for the *1* day a year when we get together .

And since I am not alone in keeping my horses in its quite acceptable to do this.

HOLY MOLY

Neverheard anything like that before! Keeping them 'safe and sound' in their stables in stead of letting them be out without human supervision?!?! Dear god

Also just because other people do the same, does not make it right/acceptable.

People do not have the 'right' to take bank holidays off if they work in the animal industry - that is a side effect of working with animals, they need looking after what ever the weather/day/time etc. I will be milking christmas eve, christmas day and boxing day because otherwise there will be 250 very poorly cows if I didnt turn in 'cos its my right'

 

[Kat]

Quite.

Plenty of people work Christmas day, it goes with some jobs. Nurses won't be leaving their patients so they can have some family time.

I'm all for being flexible to allow people a decent Christmas where possible but animals don't understand. Their needs should be taken into account.

That is why our yard has staff on. The YO will have a family Christmas but the head girl who doesn't have plans will be on the yard. She may well have a better day with the horses and the liveries dropping in with cake and earning extra money than home alone.

For some people working at Christmas isn't a problem because it is just another day. Many don't celebrate Christmas, others find it painful or lonely.

 

[millitiger]

Leviathan, why are you getting so worked up about this?

Some of us don't agree with keeping horses in, out of their routine for no reason other than convenience.
Some think that is perfectly acceptable.

Personally I wouldn't move to a yard with such restrictions on turn out, and I presume you wouldn't have me on your yard for the same reason?


As for some of the more unknowledgeable answers on this thread- just because i don't want my horses kept in over Christmas does not mean they are not able to cope with being in so the scaremongering about having to PTS if the horse gets injured is a bit much
Mine can COPE with being in but I (and they) would rather they were out, so unless they are injured or there is an issue, they won't be staying in.

As for turning them out without human supervision- mine go out overnight in the summer so are without supervision, in the dark, for much longer than they are at Christmas.
If a horse is going to injure itself it can do it in the field or in a stable and I have seen injuries in both scenarios so a bit of a moot point really.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

People do not have the 'right' to take bank holidays off if they work in the animal industry - that is a side effect of working with animals, they need looking after what ever the weather/day/time etc. I will be milking christmas eve, christmas day and boxing day because otherwise there will be 250 very poorly cows if I didnt turn in 'cos its my right'

That is ridiculous of cause people have the right to have days off as long as the yard / animals are taken care of or arrangements have been made for their well being and care has been planed ahead.

What we are saying is some of us do not have our families local so need to travel to spend some time with them . I personally work 7 days a week here .I do my yard myself no staff I prefer it that way.





This thread is way of course now .

The horses are not alone on xmas day ( not saying any more on this )
I am calm now ( had stressful day yes )

along with members here the horses will stay in on xmas day .
Reasons explained .


I speak for others here who are keeping their horses in over xmas .

All the animals needs are taken care of before we start our festive time.
horses are happy -have- food -water clean bed.

no one here will agree with everyone .

If you turn your horses out over xmas normal routine gr8

But there are others like me who don't I haven't seen one thread saying people shouldn't turn horses out so please dont jump on us because we ( others here dont )

At the end of the day what ever your views are they will never be acceptable to others we just have to deal with it.
Everyone knows best for their horses needs which is why we choose yards that meet our needs, so obviously you wont like what other people do here which is why your not on their type of yard.

Seems to me its 50/50 here to keeping in and turning out over xmas . So I don't think any more needs to be said on this .

 

[_April_]

I've done both sides of the coin in the past.

One year I left Tara out for 2 nights over xmas with loads of haylage in the field. They were all fine.

This winter I have been leaving T in more as I have someone helping me ride so often she'll be ridden twice a day.
Our older mare is 27 and is only turned out about twice a week now anway (she gets into the indoor school to leg stretch, roll etc)


Guess I am lucky that T is adaptable and doesnt really fuss either way (except she cannot be left out alone thats the one area she would fuss but no-one on the yard would ever do that).

I am not really into the 'there must be a routine' thing.
I turnout as much as possible (I wouldnt be on a yard without all year daily turnout) but sometimes I leave T in when it suits me for shows, vet, farrier, snow, gales - so yeah - lots messes with my routine lol.

 

[Jesstickle]

Yes it is unreasonable if their usual routine is to be turned out, and we interrupt that for human selfishness.
They dont understand Christmas/ Birthdays etc they just know its another new day and no one has come to let them out!

God, what on earth do you do on show days? Even more, what on earth do you do at three day shows where the only option is stabling? What do you do if you ride first thing in the morning one day and usually you turn out first? I assume then it is ok not to turn out? What is the big difference?

 

[Always Henesy]

"vets are on a skeleton over xmas one working so call outs could be long time waiting on these days so are equine hospitals so emergency call outs would be expensive and take longer than normal."


Erm - just have to say that from experience last Xmas day - the opposite of this was true. My vet usually takes an hour to get to me - he got to me in 35 minutes Xmas day. The equine hospital in Maidstone were fully staffed for emergency surgery - and they paged in their Othopedic surgeon for my horse. No delays - no traffic to fight with (although there was a lot of snow on the ground), my vet stayed with me for 3 1/2 hours Xmas day evening. My children were wrapped in duvets on the hay and even my yard owner came to help get my trailer out (sadly even with the tractor it was just too icy). However, he managed to tow the trailer out for me on Boxing day - which is when my lad went for emergency sugery.
It's the same with any hospital - staff were available for emergencies as usual. No one can predict when a person or animal becomes seriously ill or injured.
And as for getting colic if they stand in....NOT if feed is managed correctly. My poor boy had 19 weeks of box rest. The most exercise he did was walk out of his box whilst I mucked him out. Other than that he was stuck in a 16x12 stable for all that time. Bless him - he was a star.

 

[Shutterbug]

Most of the horses on our yard (all on full livery) are turned out in the evening on Xmas eve, and are left out overnight, all day Xmas day and brought in Boxing Day morning - unless there is a reason for them to be in due to injury/illness/having an owner who is worried they will catch cold . Liveries are expected to muck out and feed their own horses if they choose to keep their horses in although I did have mine kept in one year and dragged myself to the yard with a hangover on Xmas day to find the YO had already mucked them all out and fed them She said she was up anyway so just did it.

 

[Marydoll]

Why should they stay in just because people can't be bothered to turn out etc, they don't know it's xmas, to them they will just be stuck in away from the fresh air for about 36 hours, merry xmas horseys

Better to rug up and leave out and put hay in the field, they are designed to be outdoors.

^^^^^^agree with this, if you dont want to do this then get up and muck them out as normal

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

This is the comedy thread of the year! Bring him or turn him out, as long a he can fill his belly I doubt that he'll suffer any life-threatening illness/injuries.

 

[ChestnutConvert]

oh dear.... this is a late reply but i didn't expect this... i was just asking!!

I have a small yard so do all the work myself ( with some help from OH) as it isn't totally profitable to have staff. So far no liveries have offered any help, time will tell.
Not decided on what will happen yet esp as i have one that is jumping fences anyway and i'm not feeding him hay out there (thats another story!)

I was just asking opinions sorry if i rattled any cages!

 

[noodle_]

mines going out - no change for them - they have no idea its christmas!!!!

 

[ezililaur]

oh dear.... this is a late reply but i didn't expect this... i was just asking!!

I have a small yard so do all the work myself ( with some help from OH) as it isn't totally profitable to have staff. So far no liveries have offered any help, time will tell.
Not decided on what will happen yet esp as i have one that is jumping fences anyway and i'm not feeding him hay out there (thats another story!)

I was just asking opinions sorry if i rattled any cages!

I wouldn't worry too much.

If it's any consolation. Mine will be in. She'll get out for a hand graze. I wont ride or turn out that day as I want to minimise and risk of injuries to either of us. Don't fancy sitting in casualty or having to get a vet out Christmas day!

She'll be mucked out, will have plenty of hay and will get to stretch her legs. All the horses only seem to want to be out for a short period anyway at the moment.

I really can't see a problem with it. They stay in for a vet visit or the farrier for the day on occasions at my yard so another day is not a problem!

As long as they have a clean bed, hay and water I can't see what the issue is.

 

[smellsofhorse]

I don't think it is particularly unreasonable, but is it really labour saving? I will be actually turning out earlier than usual and bringing in later - it will give me most of the day to spend on xmassy things and it will reduce the amount of muck that needs to be shifted.
You have to ask yourself a question: which is quicker - turn out and bring in or muck out twice

exactly my views.
Why should they stay in just because its christmas day?
It doesnt take that long to get them in and change rugs.
Definatly quicker than mucking out twice!

 

[BonneMaman]

in the 6 years we change to this keeping them in not one horse has had colic because her was left in.

* says to self calm down lol *

well i am not alone in keeping horses in as many say just accept or find a yard that turns out xmas .

causes of colic are:

* Blockage of intestine. The intestine can be blocked, preventing the passage of feces and gas (leading to painful bloating). Possible reasons for blocking include
o Dental issues. If the horse is unable to chew its food properly, the inadequately chewed food can form a blockage. This can happen due to dental issues (e.g. teeth worn down or painful) or pain in the jaw joints (making chewing painful). Both conditions are common in older horses due to wear.
o Incorrect food. If a horse eats inappropriate food (such as stall bedding), it may not be adequately brooken down, leading to blockages. Eating of stall bedding (straw, or other types) occurs in many horses, although fortunately in the majority of cases it does not lead to blockage.
o Foreign materials. Many horses ingest foreign materials, which cause blockages. For example, horses that are bedded on sand may ingest some of it (especially if they are fed in their stables and food falls on the sand bedding). Likewise, horses that are on overgrazed pastures may ingest sand and dirt, leading to impaction (or internal abrassion, leading to infection).
o Bolting. Horses that 'bolt' their food (swallow quickly, with inadequate chewing) can have food blockages due to the food being inadequate chewed or inadequated moistened or a combination of the two.
o Water. Insufficient access or consumption of water can result in food drying out in the intestine and forming a blockage.
* Displacement of colon. Variety of causes, including excessive rolling or horse becoming 'trapped' (e.g lying against a wall or fence and unable to get up).
* Intestinal worms. Excessive intestinal worms can cause blockages (or even deadly punctures) of the intestine. For details on worm types, symptoms and treatment, click on Guide to Horse Worming.
* Ulcers. Stomach and intestinal ulcers are relatively common in horses, especially horses which are fed infrequently or fed concentrated food or have limited access to pasture. It is also associated with stress (e.g. frequent transport and showing) and use of certain medications (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs).
* Infections. Various types of infections (e.g. of urogenital or respiratory tract) can result in abdominal pain.

and http://www.equisearch.com/horses_care/health/illnesses_injuries/eqcolic3473/

It is also believed and I say believed because medical science is a conundrum of "we think so"s that inactivity also causes colic. Horses are evolved to wander slowly whilst grazing.

 

[maree t]

We have a smallholding with loads of animals not just ponies. They will all still need looking after. Our ponies know it is a special day because they will get extra treats and cuddles before they are turned out as usual. Mine do stay in if needed or the weather is really atrocious but if it is a nice day then they will go out as usual.
My OH used to be on emergency standby so could be called anytime and that is just the way life is.
we chose this way of life 24/7 and so although it will be a special day that I am looking forward to we will all muck in to make sure everything gets done.

 

[Leg_end]

I haven't read the whole thread but in answer to OP, no I don't think it's cruel if they are left in as long as they have plenty of hay and water. Ours will be out Xmas day as usual but we share shifts with YO so MiL and I will do them in the morning as YO has children so can't get on early and then she'll put them to bed in the evening for us. It works really well for us and means we aren't constantly clock watching as its a PITA the have to rush lunch and go and get them in before it's dark.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Ours have been known to stay in, in dreadful weather - we are on the top of the Pennines in a very exposed area and have had very elderly horses.
But this year my intention is to get them out every day, the elderly but healthy one will wear a rug if necessary, the others will go out and get wet -it might aid weight loss with luck!
We celebrate Christmas here, so can just pop out to bring in whenever it suits. The horses are used to a routine, in that we do everything in the same order, so they know what to expect but we do it at a time which is convenient for us, so the horses' internal clock doesn't tell them that we are late.
When we were on a DIY yard, we went down to turn out & bring in, along with other owners. The YO made it into quite a festive occasion.
I wouldn't go back to a livery yard now under any circumstances, at least in part because of the very strange rules/practices that some YO's operate.
I shall definitely NOT be poo-picking on Xmas day!

 

[MagicMelon]

I doubt it will do them any 'harm' but no, I don't think it's really fair either

I dont think its fair if the horse isn't used to being in during the day. Why shouldnt they go out as normal? Dont really see why not, if its lack of time or something as you'll be busy that day surely its better they're out as you'll only have to go back in the evening to muck out for a second time that day anyway... whereas if out, you can just bring them into a clean stable.

 

[pottamus]

Same routine for my lad whatever the time of year. I will be up at 5am as per usual to turn him out for the day, muck out and hopefully ride once it is daylight. He may be in slightly later as we are visiting familiy but only and hour or two and he will not be bothered in the slightest as he has enough to graze at in the field. My lad is used to being in at night but does not tolerate no turnout at all for long...so I dont bother putting him through it...he is better off out!

 

[amysouthworth]

Of course its not unreasonable...! Our horses don't go out on bad weather days... I think whats more unreasonable is chucking your horse out religiously every day regardless of weather, as our horses certainly don't want to be out when its pouring down and they make that very obvious!! lol
But I guess it depends most on the individual horse!

 

[Kat]

Of course its not unreasonable...! Our horses don't go out on bad weather days... I think whats more unreasonable is chucking your horse out religiously every day regardless of weather, as our horses certainly don't want to be out when its pouring down and they make that very obvious!! lol
But I guess it depends most on the individual horse!

haha you've not met mine then!

Regardless of the weather she's doing a little dance in her stable saying "let me out, let me out" hopping from foot to foot like a child that needs the loo.

She is often the only one out in the middle of the field grazing when the others are standing at the gate looking fed up.....

 

[Super_Kat]

I couldn't care less if it's fair or not, he'll take my decision and he'll like it
As it stands though I start work at 9am on Xmas day so he'll be out at 7, I'll go and feed/hay the polo ponies and I'll drag horse at livery in on my way home at about 7pm.
My Christmas will be celebrated on boxing day, a rare day off so when I eventually decide to get up he'll go out and come in when I decide to vacate my house. Polo ponies have adlib hay in the field so I don't think they'll go hungry if I'm an hour late

 

[xRobyn]

If I turn him out he'll get less food and will probably be stressing to come in! Plus I'll have to go down three times (turnout am, bring in at 3pm and go down to give more hay at 6/7pm).

I've gone from 24/7/365 turnout to bringing in overnight through winter. He's becoming a wuss and starts to call and pace at the gate at 3pm which is far from ideal!

If I keep him in on xmas day;

1. He'll get more to eat/he'll get 3 lots of hay.
2. He won't be stressed waiting for me.
3. I won't have to go down 3 times.
4. My mum won't beat me up for daring to leave the house during our christmas routine

I'm pretty sure he;ll be happy to stay inside where it's warm and he has a big supply of hay. My main reason is that I don't want him pacing up and down at 3pm when I won't be able to get down before 4pm!

 

[starbar]

I don't think it is particularly unreasonable, but is it really labour saving? I will be actually turning out earlier than usual and bringing in later - it will give me most of the day to spend on xmassy things and it will reduce the amount of muck that needs to be shifted.
You have to ask yourself a question: which is quicker - turn out and bring in or muck out twice

^^^ this! We have 8 horses, 6 are stabled, 2 live out. On Xmas eve the ones who are stabled will be out as long as possible (unless the weather is vile) and they will be turned out early on Xmas day to keep mucking out as quick as possible. They will then come in as usual at 4ish on Xmas day afternoon. Boxing day will be back to normal.
For those who are on yards where this isn't an option, no, I don't think it is unreasonable. Horses like routine but what about days at shows etc, routines are broken then with no adverse effects.

 

[Daffodil]

My boy has the same routine regardless of whether it's a week day, weekend or Christmas.

 

[Mancha]

I think it's easy for people on full livery to say their horses routine can't change for christmas, seeing as they are not the ones having to actually fit their family christmas around (mostly other peoples) horses! I work as a groom and you'd be amazed the amount of liveries that think they deserve to have a day away from the yard to spend with family because it's christmas, but grooms should work all day as usual! I don't just mean turning out either, i have known liveries to be incredibly demanding about allsorts over xmas! I'm not saying i don't expect to work over christmas, but there's a difference between a quick skip out/hay/water and all of that plus rug changing/booting up/walking 15 minutes to a field and back twice and then grooming and more rug changing etc. If it's just one horse then it makes sense to stick to routine but when you've got a yard of 20 and often working single handedly there's a definate difference in the time it takes.

I work on a much smaller yard now and this year i will be working every day over xmas, the horses routines will all stay the same as when there's less horse it does work out easier to turn out.

 

[little_critter]

I'd love to turn my horse out but we're on restricted winter turnout so no horses go out over the weekend.
I don't think it's unreasonable to keep a horse in for 1 day if it's not normally in on that day - but I don't see that it will save any time or effort.