Is it wrong to keep horses without ...

[chillipup]

Having access to a stable or shelter? Just a musing but would appreciate your thoughts on horse owners who do not have access to stables or shelter. Who only have fields/paddocks themselves or their horse(s) on grass livery only.

I do appreciate there are some pretty hardy breeds out there but with this ever persistent rain and knee deep muddy paddocks, how are these owners able to cope without some form of shelter or stable for their horse?

 

[paddi22]

we are getting stables build at the moment, so horses are out 24/7 in a muddy boggy waterlogged field. I went down to check them in horrible rain and wind, and they had jammed under a tree together, and had heads down bums to the rain. Once they are rugged im happy enough. We had field shelters at home that were demolished to build the stables, but the horses never used them in the rain and would happily stay out in mud and heavy rain munching away.

 

[chillipup]

Thanks paddi, how do you cope if one becomes sick/injured? What would you have to do if it happened before your stables are finished?

 

[paddi22]

its happened at the moment!, one has a lameness, prob an absess but need to get him back into action asap, so have to hire a stable at a local yard for a week or so. In the past i could fence off part of the field with shelter and have rubber field mats down so area is always dry and that did the job as a sickness paddock, but the builders took fencing down in that part, so cant use that at the moment, so had to admit defeat and hire a stable!

 

[Princess16]

Mine lives out 24/7 but like Paddi we had him stabled last night because weather was so severe but it has to be bad for that to happen. Likewise if anything God forbid happened and he needed box rest we have that option too.

 

[Auslander]

I've got 6 horses in 3 separate hard standing pens. 1 has a shelter, 1 has a stable, and one has no man-made shelter (they have access to the arena, which has bushes along one side)
I've just been up to check them, and the only one inside is the one on box rest, who doesn't have a choice! The others are all out eating hay as if nothings happening.
They're all sportshorse types, and two of them are clipped, but they seem perfectly happy.

 

[paddi22]

its amazing how hardy they are. I have a very fine tb, a two year old, a very high maintenance sports horse, a tiny mini, a 20 year old rescue pony and a pregnant mare - so nothing particularly hardy. When i check them they always out in the middle of the field and seem happy out in the rain. They only time they huddle is when temp goes below 3 degrees and its combined with relentless wind and hours of rain. They look miserable, but when i feel under their rugs they are fine.

Only time having no stables was a pain was when a horse looked like it had come down with colic at night in the pitch dark on a miserable night. Luckily it was only trapped wind, but i was thankful i had a field shelter that was dry and had lighting to bring her to. I have to say the hard standing paddock does the job 90% of the time for box rest or poulticing cases etc, its just those emergency cases that you need the extra support

 

[chillipup]

Thanks guys, sounds like you've got things all under control but what would happen if people don't have access to dry yard, arena, stable, shelter? Is this still OK or would you see this as possible welfare problem?

 

[emmad96]

I live in one of the wettest places of NZ, right on the coast (where I graze it is a ten minute hack and you are on the beach) and the horses live out 24/7, no matter what the weather or anything like that. Yes, it'd be nice to have some stables, and god forbid anything happen, I'm sure the racecourse wouldn't mind letting someone hire a stable or we could yard them in our yards at PC. We don't get snow here, but it still gets bloody cold, and when its 2C and pouring with rain or even on clear winter days, and the frost doesnt thaw at all in some places, the horses are happy as can be. Rugs, rugs and more rugs. And they don't have shelters, the odd wind break yes, and some bushes, but thats it.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Thanks guys, sounds like you've got things all under control but what would happen if people don't have access to dry yard, arena, stable, shelter? Is this still OK or would you see this as possible welfare problem?

It will only be a welfare concern if no or insufficient feed and/or water was available.

 

[Princess16]

Thanks guys, sounds like you've got things all under control but what would happen if people don't have access to dry yard, arena, stable, shelter? Is this still OK or would you see this as possible welfare problem?

What are you trying to imply here? Are you saying horses living out in rugs with maybe little or no shelter are welfare cases? IMO as long as they are looked on twice a day, fed and watered correctly I don't see a problem. Not everyone has the luxury of a barn or stable. Personally I would prefer to see some kind of shelter be it trees, bushes etc but if not then I don't think it should be deemed a welfare case. Having said that one should always have a back-up plan should horse have injury and need shelter and box rest. Mine lives out but has field shelter and he has a stable he can go to if the need arises.

 

[wench]

Depends. If your field is surrounded by high hedges and trees and has mud free area, fine.

If the field is bare and open, and/or s mud pit, no.

 

[Orca]

I believe that access to shelter is a basic welfare requirement and that whether it be man made or natural, horses should always have some form of shelter available. It's not just unpleasant weather which is the issue but baking sun too. No animal should be out on the hottest days without access to shade and that's something which rugs can't fix. I would also not keep horses without access to drier land (not necessarily hard standing but at least a higher area which is not knee deep in mud).

OP, from a welfare point of view, I don't believe access to a dry yard, arena, stable or man made shelter are entirely necessary, so long as natural shelter and drier ground are accessible.

From a practical point of view, I wouldn't keep a horse without access to a man made shelter or stable, unless they were out of work (and had natural shelter available).

 

[stencilface]

No its not, a stable or man made structure is not a necessity for keeping a horse. Its not fair to leave them out without some form of shelter though, either a good hedge or tree or the lee of a hill in my opinion. Most horses with a decent coat and tail don't care though, mine are out stuffing their faces unrugged in all kinds of weather. They do have the option of a field shelter with mats and sometimes straw (if we can get it clean enough!) but they don't use it for the majority of the day.

 

[Supertrooper]

Mine is out 24/7 all year round. He NEVER goes in his field shelter at this time of year unless I put his hay in there. However when the horse flys are out and he doesn't have his fly rug on he will stand in there all day.

He wouldn't cope mentally with being stabled and I'm not sure what I'll do if he ever needed it, try not to think of that to be honest.

This morning he did look cold, tucked up and pretty miserable but last night was abnormally awful. He is very hardy and just takes whatever is thrown at him.

He's not rugged (apart from fly rug when horseflys are out) and I rarely groom him in winter so he has plenty of oil in his coat.

 

[Supertrooper]

He does has lots of natural shelter though ;-)

 

[chillipup]

What are you trying to imply here? Are you saying horses living out in rugs with maybe little or no shelter are welfare cases? IMO as long as they are looked on twice a day, fed and watered correctly I don't see a problem. Not everyone has the luxury of a barn or stable. Personally I would prefer to see some kind of shelter be it trees, bushes etc but if not then I don't think it should be deemed a welfare case. Having said that one should always have a back-up plan should horse have injury and need shelter and box rest. Mine lives out but has field shelter and he has a stable he can go to if the need arises.

No, I'm not trying to imply anything P. I'm merely asking what peoples' thoughts are on the subject. I agree that if a horse is suitably fed, has access to water, some form of shelter - be that through natural hedging, trees, a man-made shelter, or an actual stable, I wouldn't consider there were any welfare issues and like others have said and is not just in Winter's worse weather but during Summer too, if it's baking hot with lots of flies about.

The only possible problem I could see arising, would be if a horse were sick or injured and needed to be confined, for veterinary attention and or on going treatment and had no access to an area of shelter without lighting. As I'm sure we've all come up against it where if something's going to go wrong, it'll be sods law that it will go wrong during the worst of weather and in the dark!

Members of this forum seem pretty savvy and ensure their own horse's welfare is a top priority through both their equine experience and knowledge. I guess problems would only arise where an owner is perhaps not very experienced or knowledgeable or in some cases, where an owner sees horses as a mere commodity.

 

[stencilface]

Dare I say it, when we first got our own land and horses 27 years ago, they were kept in a 12 acre hilly field with hedges and trees and a rusty old gate tied up with rope. You have concerns over needing vet treatment. I can tell you in the 2 years before we had any stables we never had anything needing a vet! Farrier just did them on the grass, tied to the gate!

I think the key is to not have any facilities, then the horses just don't get ill

 

[joosie]

Personally, yes, I believe it's wrong for horses to have no shelter in the field if they are out there 24/7. It doesn't have to be an actual shelter - good shelter from trees and hedges works just as well, but shelter of some kind is essential. It's not just for getting out of the wind and rain, they also need shelter in the summer to get out of the sun and have a break from the flies.

 

[chillipup]

Dare I say it, when we first got our own land and horses 27 years ago, they were kept in a 12 acre hilly field with hedges and trees and a rusty old gate tied up with rope. You have concerns over needing vet treatment. I can tell you in the 2 years before we had any stables we never had anything needing a vet! Farrier just did them on the grass, tied to the gate!

I think the key is to not have any facilities, then the horses just don't get ill

I think your probably right S. I suspect building stables or a shelter only encourages them to have a problem and it is likely to be tempting fate too

 

[VikingSong]

Personally, yes, I believe it's wrong for horses to have no shelter in the field if they are out there 24/7. It doesn't have to be an actual shelter - good shelter from trees and hedges works just as well, but shelter of some kind is essential. It's not just for getting out of the wind and rain, they also need shelter in the summer to get out of the sun and have a break from the flies.

This.

 

[Goldenstar]

Personally I think an owner needs a plan to cover disasters where a stable is needed clearly it's better and easier if you have the stable where the horse lives but a plan of how you could have access to a stable when you need one is a good idea .
ATM I have five horses and four stables and a field shelter if I needed to stable the outside horse I could either turnout someone else to use the shed ,or turn the wash box back to a stable or send one off to livery for a while that's my plan .
Much better to have a plan .

 

[LD&S]

I tend to think it's less of an issue than a horse being kept in a cage for up to 24hrs at a time.

 

[Peggs]

I tend to think it's less of an issue than a horse being kept in a cage for up to 24hrs at a time.

I would personally agree with this. Dont think I've ever seen a horse with stereotypic behaviours that lives out 24/7 but there are plenty of horses that are stabled with them.
I think if a horse is used to the routine of living out its just another day. If I turned one of the horses out that has been used to being stabled at night into the wind and rain and so, completely changed the routine the horse was used to, I don't think that would be particularly fair. At the end of the day I think a lot of animals are pretty stoic and although I do it myself, so am very guilty of it, we personify them too much.

 

[marmalade76]

I've kept horses out for years (different types, from TBs to natives) without manmade shelter. They have, however, lots of natural shelter, hedges, trees, dips and valleys/nooks and crannies that they can get into and out of the wind and they are absolutely fine! For the short period that I kept them in paddocks that did have shelters, they only went in them if I put hay inside. I have access to stables if I need them, but the weather would have to be REALLY bad for m to use them just for that, I retain one for box rest 'cause you never know when they're going to need that!

 

[Princess16]

I know I have already posted but I do get a tad sick and tired of some people always berating owners who keep their horses out 24/7. You are sometimes made to feel that you are being cruel because horse isn't in a nice warm stable every night. Mine even though has lovely field shelter usually spends wet and windy weather outside but I admit he uses it more in the summer to shelter from sun and flies.

For me personally the weather conditions the other night were just too bad to warrant him standing in a really wet muddy field with torrential rain and wind but saying that I was fortunate in that I had somewhere to take him for the night not everyone has that facility. To do this I might add would have to be because of really exceptional weather conditions, ordinarily wind and rain nope he stays out and is happy to do so.

 

[Goldenstar]

All my horses love using shelters I am always curious about the my horses won't use shelters people it's just not my experience.
I do think it's your duty as an owner to teach horses about stabling and how to be calm and happy in one as it can save your horses life .

 

[Princess16]

All my horses love using shelters I am always curious about the my horses won't use shelters people it's just not my experience.
I do think it's your duty as an owner to teach horses about stabling and how to be calm and happy in one as it can save your horses life .

So we will all just stand and watch them 24/7 to ensure they go into field shelters shall we ? Yeh right ! You know the saying 'you can take a horse to water .....' LOL

 

[twiggy2]

I know I have already posted but I do get a tad sick and tired of some people always berating owners who keep their horses out 24/7. You are sometimes made to feel that you are being cruel because horse isn't in a nice warm stable every night. Mine even though has lovely field shelter usually spends wet and windy weather outside but I admit he uses it more in the summer to shelter from sun and flies.

For me personally the weather conditions the other night were just too bad to warrant him standing in a really wet muddy field with torrential rain and wind but saying that I was fortunate in that I had somewhere to take him for the night not everyone has that facility. To do this I might add would have to be because of really exceptional weather conditions, ordinarily wind and rain nope he stays out and is happy to do so.

I think some horses realise standing inside a building in high winds is possibly not the safest place to be

 

[stencilface]

I think some horses realise standing inside a building in high winds is possibly not the safest place to be

This definitely! Ours will not stay in the field shelter if its windy, they much prefer to be out. They do use it to shelter from the rain, but onyl from some respite, they get hungry for grass after a while! The shelter is much more loved when its hot and there's lots of flies, my prediction for this summer given the mild winter - boo.