Is it wrong to keep horses without ...

[marmalade76]

I think some horses realise standing inside a building in high winds is possibly not the safest place to be

Yep, when I see people bringing their horses in to old, rickety stables 'cause it's better than being out in the wind and rain' one has to wonder if they have the brains they were born with. I've seen a couple of pics of Facebook of blown down shelters and stables with roofs missing recently. Horses are much safer in every way whilst out loose in a field, e.g. they are safer from theft (it would be much easier for a thief to catch a horse contained in a stable than one loose in a field) or fire - they are much safer when they can run away from things.

 

[marmalade76]

All my horses love using shelters I am always curious about the my horses won't use shelters people it's just not my experience.
I do think it's your duty as an owner to teach horses about stabling and how to be calm and happy in one as it can save your horses life .

All my animals, past and present would/will happily stable if needed. Re the use of shelters, perhaps it's the upbringing of the horse, mine have never been keen on shelters but I did know an imported warmblood who loved his shelter and spent loads of time in it and I suspect that was because where he was brought up turnout is a rare thing. And whilst he chose to spend much of his time standing in his shelter, he still much preferred it to being shut in a stable.

A friend of mine has five ponies on a trash paddock for the winter with and open a barn and a closed barn with a bed in. They use the open barn 'cause that's where their hay is and they really only use the closed barn with a bed as a loo, they walk in, have a pee, walk out again.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I know I have already posted but I do get a tad sick and tired of some people always berating owners who keep their horses out 24/7.

For me personally the weather conditions the other night were just too bad to warrant him standing in a really wet muddy field with torrential rain and wind but saying that I was fortunate in that I had somewhere to take him for the night not everyone has that facility.

Ah, but you have a plan B, so can bring your horse in if necessary. I don't think that anyone is being berated for keeping their horse out 24/7 as long there is a back up plan for a sick or injured horse to be housed, or if weather conditions are extreme. I confess to cringeing when people post on here about sick horses who have to remain outside as there is no stabling available.

Mine mostly live out, and seem to be a minority on here in that they LOVE their field shelters. In the recent wet and windy conditions, they parked themselves cosily inside, and demanded 'room service' when I went out to give them their tea (would normally be fed outside by the fence). I also aim to have a stable available per horse, just in case.

 

[joosie]

Of course some horses will choose to use their field shelters more than others, but that's not the point, what's important is that they can CHOOSE to take shelter should they feel they need it. My problem is with people who think it's ok not to provide that option. And believing that horses should have access to shelter / shade has got nothing to do with "personifying horses too much". All animals need to be able to shelter from the elements at times and it is their nature to do so. Horses in particular often make use of shelter more in hot weather than in the winter climate. I have seen them standing in shelters nose-to-tail swatting flies off each other a lot more than I've seen them hiding from the rain.

 

[paddi22]

its snowing heavily here so i moved my oldie and a preggers mare up to the small field at home, which has a shelter with haylage inside. Looking out now both are snuffling round looking for grass under the snow. They made a move to stick there heads in the shelter doors during a heavy downpour, but otherwise they are out walking round all day and dont look bothered.

 

[MagicMelon]

I have 3 of mine in my field where they have a stable block with the doors hooked back so they can come and go as they want at all times, there's also a large hardcore yard out the front where they get their round hay bale. This works really well IMO. However, I also have a rented field with my WB in it, it has no shelter except for large pine trees. It's also a naturally boggy field due to a stream running along the middle. I've had big problems with his mud fever this winter and as a result I turn him out in it for a few hours during the day and then bring him into yard at night (and if weather is horrible) - I've taped off one stable with a bit outside where he can share the hay bale with the others, this works fine actually and everyones happy. I dont know what I'd do if I had no hard standing... I'd really struggle! I definately couldn't leave him out in the deep mud of his field permanently. He's not even prone to MF but the field is muddier than my own one.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I did it for about 3 months when we moved-I just couldnt get the stables put in any earlier although I did have a garage I could gate in an absolute emergency. Just with the two ponies-I would not have risked it with a horse. It really bothered me and I would not do it long term.

None of my fields have shelters and although one looks to have natural shelter we are quite high up and there's not alot of respite when we have 3 days of gales and non stop, horizontal driving rain. Both at home and the winter field I have stone stables/byre to use. Scottish roofs have much higher building specs than in England, so when we have 90mph winds, I'd rather they were in. If the choice was flimsy wooden loose boxes, I'd rather they were out.

 

[_HP_]

Thanks guys, sounds like you've got things all under control but what would happen if people don't have access to dry yard, arena, stable, shelter? Is this still OK or would you see this as possible welfare problem?

No I wouldn't consider it a welfare issue as long as they have food and water and preferably some kind of windbreak is a hedge/tree/bank although mine do and rarely use it.
I have 3 ponies in an exposed field with no shelter other than hedging....I have 2 horses in an exposed field with a field shelter. In extreme wind and rain the other day....all five were stood at the top middle of their fields, with their bums to the wind and rain and their heads down.

 

[NZJenny]

It is normal for horses in New Zealand to live out 24/7 - I don't have any stables, nor are there any shelters in the paddock. It has trees and a couple of decent hedges though.

If we have a really wet winter, 90% of the paddock can be under water (has happened twice in 18 years), but there is enough higher ground by the shelter for them to cope just fine. A normal winter means mud, but we can cope with that.

As far as sick or injured horses go, I have done strained tendons, laminitis, bad flesh wounds, foaled mares, tie up, abscesses etc all out of the paddock with no problem. Personally, I think that so called "box rest" is over used and in so many cases horses are actually better off if they can move around as they choose. The term is misused too - in the cavalry days horses were kept in tie stalls, a sick or injured horse was moved to a loose box for "box rest" - it got to move more, not less.

 

[Peggs]

Of course some horses will choose to use their field shelters more than others, but that's not the point, what's important is that they can CHOOSE to take shelter should they feel they need it. My problem is with people who think it's ok not to provide that option. And believing that horses should have access to shelter / shade has got nothing to do with "personifying horses too much". All animals need to be able to shelter from the elements at times and it is their nature to do so. Horses in particular often make use of shelter more in hot weather than in the winter climate. I have seen them standing in shelters nose-to-tail swatting flies off each other a lot more than I've seen them hiding from the rain.

Of course some horses will choose to use their field shelters more than others, but that's not the point, what's important is that they can CHOOSE to take shelter should they feel they need it. My problem is with people who think it's ok not to provide that option. And believing that horses should have access to shelter / shade has got nothing to do with "personifying horses too much". All animals need to be able to shelter from the elements at times and it is their nature to do so. Horses in particular often make use of shelter more in hot weather than in the winter climate. I have seen them standing in shelters nose-to-tail swatting flies off each other a lot more than I've seen them hiding from the rain.

I don't think it's personifying them giving them shelter in the form of a hedge/stable/field shelter in fact surely it's included in the 5 freedoms?! It's seemingly unfair if you were to put them out in a flat open field without even a hedge line or tree.

I think we personify them when we think they must be going through hell standing out in wind and rain and, wrap them up from nose to hoof in rugs and bandages, and put them in a stable filled to the rafters with straw.

 

[Peggs]

Of course some horses will choose to use their field shelters more than others, but that's not the point, what's important is that they can CHOOSE to take shelter should they feel they need it. My problem is with people who think it's ok not to provide that option. And believing that horses should have access to shelter / shade has got nothing to do with "personifying horses too much". All animals need to be able to shelter from the elements at times and it is their nature to do so. Horses in particular often make use of shelter more in hot weather than in the winter climate. I have seen them standing in shelters nose-to-tail swatting flies off each other a lot more than I've seen them hiding from the rain.

Im not sure if the personifying comment was linked to what I said earlier but just to clarify...
I don't think it's personifying them giving them shelter in the form of a hedge/stable/field shelter in fact surely it's included in the 5 freedoms?! It's seemingly unfair if you were to put them out in a flat open field without even a hedge line or tree.

I think we personify them when we think they must be going through hell standing out in wind and rain and, wrap them up from nose to hoof in rugs and bandages, and put them in a stable filled to the rafters with straw, it gives a nice warm fuzzy feeling when you do! But if you were to see horses out in bad weather and think someone was neglecting their horse husbandry role and what terrible people they must be, I think it's slightly misguided.

 

[chillipup]

There are 6 mixed breed ponies which live close to me on about 2 acres. The land is hilly, with dips and gullies, surrounded by good hedging and trees. There is no manmade shelter available. Only the gate way, forage feeder and water trough areas are poached and the land appears free draining and is still covered in grass. The ponies are not rugged. All are in good bodily condition. They don't seem to be ridden/worked very often. They have been here since about late Sept. 15 and have just been moved off by their owners. They'll likely be back again next Winter - I hope.

So what's the problem? I'll tell you, .....as far as I can see, absolutely nothing - whatsoever. But are they having all their needs met? No rugs? certainly didn't look like they needed them, having naturally good thick wooly coats - tick. Access to natural shelter all round? tick. Water and extra forage available? tick. Grazing? tick (albeit winter grass) Company of others? yes 5 others. Signs of being visited regularly? tick (owners seen regularly at field) Access to a covered manmade shelter or stable? No, although there is a farm barn adjacent, which could possibly be used in an emergency situation.

So personally, I see no issues with this type of set up for these ponies and consider it rather good. Would it concern me in any way? Only if there were nothing available to confine and/or shelter a sick or injured pony, if necessary, in an emergency. I love to see them in a natural, as possible, setting and they appeared content and well, within it.

Alternatively, how about a TB in good condition, clipped, rugged, stabled, with good clean bedding, ad lib water, forage, plus all necessary additional feed/vits etc, in regular work, days off, visited by owner at least twice a day, in view of other horses, but only able to be turned out, for say 8 hours out of the 24 in Winter?

Is this horse having all its needs met? I'd have to say yes to this too. Would it concern me in any way? Only if the horse were displaying any stereotypical behaviours and If It were mine, I'd prefer it to have more turn out time.

That said, would my answer remain the same if the TBs and ponies' situations were reversed? (i.e. a pony was stabled, clipped, rugged, worked etc and six Tbs were turned out in the field for winter un-clipped and un-rugged) Probably yes. (with perhaps a few tweaks regarding the six TBs)

In conclusion, it must surely come down to any owner having the competence to know, not only what constitutes a suitable environment in which to keep a horse but perhaps and more importantly, what constitutes an environment that will not only meet a horse's individual needs but one in which they can enjoy and thrive.

Instead of waffling on, I should have just used the old adage 'Horses for Courses' !

 

[laura_nash]

My two haven't had access to a stable or field shelter for two years now, we are planning a shelter for practical reasons (tacking up etc) but something else keeps taking priority. Our fields are surrounded by stone walls, some of which are of a decent height, they have plenty of ups and down and some trees and hedges so they can usually find suitable shelter. I do have a hay barn which they can go into and I use this in severe prolonged weather to give them a break and a chance for a rest, but one has ROA so I don't like them in there for more than 24hrs max. They love to come when I do bring them in, and the pony in particular always goes right inside and lays down for a sleep (it has a peat floor), but they are keen to get out again afterwards.

After this winter a hard-standing turnout area is an absolute priority before next winter and I think access to dry ground is much more of a priority than access to a roof for most horses. When the fencing blew down in their previous (very muddy at the end) field and they got access to the house / garden area it wasn't the barn they went for, they spent the evening standing on the (concrete) septic tank lid(!).

 

[Groom Mum]

My two were out 24/7 from birth. Then they came to me and I built them two stables and a shelter. They don't like the stables as they don't like being closed in. But we are knee deep in boggy mud so I built a floor in the shelter and rubber matted it then put a mixture of shavings and straw in there. Now I can't get them out of there. They love it. I think they love just getting out of the knee deep mud for a while. They don't have much grass at moment. So they don't bother coming out much. Only to have a mooch around and to their water troughs. I try to entice them out but nope they stand there looking at me !! They must come out overnight as I see fresh poo in the field. But they love their shelter and flooring it was the best thing I did in this terrible mud.

 

[MagicMelon]

My worry would be not having anywhere dry for them to stand or if they needed to be in for vet reasons. I keep mine out 24/7, a lot depends on the ground. I have 2 fields, one is mine and another I rent - in my field I have a stable block which is left open so the horses can come and go as they wish (which they do) and a hardcore yard out the front where their hay is. The field itself is much better draining than the rented one. They are both of a similar size yet I can keep 3 horses on my one and only 1 on the rented one which is boggy and has no shelter except for a line of trees. I have to bring in the horse from the rented field every night - I have had to section off half the yard and a stable so he goes in there at night purely as somewhere for his legs to dry out as he got raging mud fever if left in the field 24/7 at the moment So this would be my main concern, I'm lucky that I have this option of having somewhere but what would those liveries do if their horse got mud fever? Keeping them warm IMO isn't really an issue anymore with modern rugs.

 

[applecart14]

The one (and only) yard I was at in the mid nineties kept horses in herds, we had forty geldings in about 20 acres of fields all ajoining each other, so very open plan. We never had field shelters. In the summer when it was hot they used to take themselves down the dip in the field as it would be cooler for them, and in the winter they would find shelter under the trees or next to the XC fences which would shelter them to a degree. In those days horses were very much horses and no one every gave mind to shelters and lots of hitech rugging solutions and the like. These were the happiest most carefree days of the my life, when you would hack out for 3 hours at a time, all gallop round the XC at the same time together or ride bareback without a care in the world. No one cared what position their horses head was in and the only schooling you did was in the classroom at school!