Is it wrong?!

sez1

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Is it wrong to buy a horse as an investment? It's something I've been wanting to do for a while and before I get any criticism, I have had experience with horses from most levels of eventing, showjumping, dressage, different ages and different breeds
The type of horse I would be looking at would be a Connemara X 15-16hh under 6. Broken in just not been out much. I would own it for 2-3 years and do BSJA, BD and BE
I've had many inputs saying owning a horse for an investment is wrong and means you don't love the horse- only doing it for the money. Others have said its very easy to loose money on a horse through vet bills and other things. However I would insure against accidents.
What are your thoughts on this: should I go ahead or is it wrong?
 
Not sure that you would ever get your money back.

If you add up the true cost, purchase price, vets fees, livery, feed, shoes, bedding etc over the 2-3 years and then sell, I would like to bet that your selling price will be less than you have spent out.

If you buy for, say, £1000, then 2-3 yrs later sell for £5000, ,then you might be happy to say you made £4000, but this would not be a true profit.
 
Of course it's not wrong - lots of people buy horses as projects to bring on and sell, or with the expectation that they will need to sell in the future.

However, I guess it depends on your definition of an investment. It's very unlikely that you will make profit from selling the horse if you factor in the cost of upkeep and any vets bills etc. And of course there is also the risk that a physical issue or something else could arise during the time you own the horse which would render the horse very difficult to sell, or limited in value.

However, if you'd be spending out on keeping a horse anyway, and selling for a 'profit' in the end would be a nice bonus, then go for it!
 
I have added up costs and it would come to 15k for 3years inc purchase price and everything else (that's including BE) My daughter would also be competing in ONu18 in hope of getting onto the Junior team at weston park. I would expect, especially if she competed him in 2 international * events a year, he would go for 12k-18k as a 8 year old. This would be dependant on how he succeeded at eventing but I should expect him to do well at novice level an be ready to take his next rider up to intermediate and see a rider onto a Junior euros
 
Not at all. Just me mindful the investment easily turns into negative equity when they injure themselves or turn out to be little wotsits.

I bought a nice looking but very green cob last year. The plan is to produce it, get out to a couple shows and then sell as a ready made and safe heavy weight cob. There has been a hitch though, I like her, she is becoming a very pleasant ride and I have a whim to send her to a big stallion to bred me a heavyweight hunter. Who mentioned investments !
 
Haha yeah. Although because me and my daughter are both quite tall (and she's still growing -5'7 at 13) that if I got a 15.2hh that doesn't take up much leg. She'd eventually find herself under horsed and want a new one. By this time shell be 16 and moving to a sixth form somewhere and maybe even take a new horse with her. Hopefully, the attached side of things shouldn't be a problem as she will have to concentrate on A levels.
 
I always used to buy a recently backed 4yr old, keep until 7-8yrs by which time I would have competed it to newcomers as well a general all round education. My last one I bought for £1700 and sold for £6300 3yrs later. However I don't think I really made any money! However, to me it helped justify all the costs (especially to my husband!) to get a big amount of it back. And was very satisfying as well. This plan has now failed badly as I love my current horse so much there is no way I am parting with him!!!
I think the only way to make a proper profit is to do it over a much much shorter period eg 6mths ish- and be lucky!
 
I have added up costs and it would come to 15k for 3years inc purchase price and everything else (that's including BE) My daughter would also be competing in ONu18 in hope of getting onto the Junior team at weston park. I would expect, especially if she competed him in 2 international * events a year, he would go for 12k-18k as a 8 year old. This would be dependant on how he succeeded at eventing but I should expect him to do well at novice level an be ready to take his next rider up to intermediate and see a rider onto a Junior euros

Just be mindful that the scenario outlined above would be an ideal situation and contains a lot of ifs and buts, it might not go to plan! - horse could well injure itself leading to expensive treatment and leaving it unable to compete at that level, it may not have the ability or attitude for the higher levels etc etc.

You could end up spending 20k+ for a horse that might actually only be worth 5k in 3 years. But that's the risk with all horses, as long as you don't expect a guaranteed return on your investment then there's no harm trying!
 
Not at all. I've done it many times. However my time-scale is a lot shorter than yours (3-4 months). I'd also say that picking a 5/6 that will be good enough for 2*/int/teams is the weak spot in your plans. It will either have enough runs and good results to be too expensive to be an investment or unproven and a gamble. I'm certainly not good enough to gauge that level of ability in the rough. The ones I thought might be reasonable topped out at BE100 and the one I did buy who will do 2* was a sheer fluke. I thought he'd be a BE90 horse.
 
I've done it over shorter time periods ...

My friend bought one as an investment on the understanding she'd be running a horse anyway to sale - purchase = "profit" ... Simply enough but the mare then had surgery twice in 10 months, one a field injury and then a complication, and has been nothing but a liability ever since to the point the insurance companies won't touch her for accident/illness, the mare's confidence around other horses is ruined and she is now a very expensive "project" horse. The perfect plan doesn't always happen but if you're prepared to take the hit then it's nothing morally wrong about it ;)
 
I always used to buy a recently backed 4yr old, keep until 7-8yrs by which time I would have competed it to newcomers as well a general all round education. My last one I bought for £1700 and sold for £6300 3yrs later. However I don't think I really made any money! However, to me it helped justify all the costs (especially to my husband!) to get a big amount of it back. And was very satisfying as well. This plan has now failed badly as I love my current horse so much there is no way I am parting with him!!!
I think the only way to make a proper profit is to do it over a much much shorter period eg 6mths ish- and be lucky!

My business plan is to buy for £1k or less, spend ~4mths bringing on up to about 90cm SJ and XC, Nov dressage level and sell for £3-3.5k. My costs (I only do it in the summer so they can live out) are approx £500 so there is always some room for profit. I've looked at doing it longer term/producing to a higher level before selling and just see the profit disappearing unfortunately.

And yes, you need luck on your side too!
 
I have a colt who will be 7 weeks tomorrow. He has already cost me in excess of £3000 to get on the ground and I know I will never recoup that. If you are in a position to have a go at it, go for it. I'm sure our top stars didn't get there by being sentimental. Doesn't mean you won't love the horse whilst it's with you. I love my colt to bits but I want/would like him to compete eventually and I'm not the person who can get him there. Good luck in your venture
 
What about a pony? That she could do pony trials on. I know that at that level (novice/1*) ponies go for loads if they've gone DC at pony trials and CCNP**. Especially ponies that have done europeans can go for up to 75k
 
Personally I think there are too many variables. Injury, lack of talent in 1 discipline, getting to its limit before you wanted it to, poor traveller, stress head at comps.... Need i go on?
 
I guess... But ponies do sell for a lot. The majority of ponies competing in trials get sold onto younger riders for 5 figures and even the European ponies have a weak phase.
 
They do sell for alot but they are in the minority.
I suppose if you are prepared to potentially write off the investment there is nothing wrong in giving it go.
 
Just had a look on horse quest. Quite a few good fei ponies going for a lot on there. There aren't any over 20k yet as they are all still competing. But by October there will be a lot more ponies in there. One that will go for over 50k I expect
 
Just a thought, it may be your dream, but is it your daughters? You will be putting a lot of pressure on her, she is only young. She may hit 15/16 and decide boys are a better bet.
 
'Ponies' don't go for a lot, a very small number of ponies go for a lot. ;) And keep in mind, what they are advertised for does not necessarily reflect the price they will go for. . .or not in the cases of ones that fail the vet, don't go for a less experienced rider etc. The reason top ponies and jr horses command a high price is that they are rare birds and even people who produce them professionally will expect to only have a few successes out of quite a large pool.

There is nothing 'morally' wrong with your plan at all and if you're going to have a horse for your daughter to produce anyway then no reason not to try to make it the best horse it can be.
 
Re pressure, that is a valid point. If your end goal is to produce a five figure pony (rather than to just have a horse/pony for your daughter to compete and enjoy, then sell for whatever) then NOTHING can go wrong. She can't afford to struggle in one phase, fall off it or otherwise mar its record. It can't get hurt or develop a bad habit or otherwise diminish its value. Of course these things happen no matter how careful one is, but that's a lot of pressure on a kid. I've seen children crying because they got a stop and they know it's going on a pony's record. :(
 
This is what my daughter wants to do. It was her idea all along and j can't stand parents who make their children ride. No, this is what she really wants to do and she has told me this time and time again
 
I think there is nothing wrong with buying to sell later, plenty of people do this even if they do not actually start out with this in mind, I have bought and sold many, some for a good profit other not so good but they all get treated the same while here.
Your plan is fine as long as you are realistic about making a loss if things do not go to plan, so much can go wrong that will not be covered by insurance, the horse may not be as talented as you first thought, it may not cope with all phases once more is expected of it, unsoundness issues may be paid for by insurance but LOU is hard to get if it ends up slightly "wrong", the list is endless and having all your eggs in one basket can add to the pressure for all involved.

Friends of mine bought a good horse for their keen daughter, she had the same ambitions as your daughter to get to Weston Park etc. despite every care and attention to detail, the horse was not the easiest ride, she just missed a place, the horse then had some slight soundness problems, became more challenging and she eventually gave up and he was sold at a loss, he was never bought as a financial investment, more of an investment in the child and her dreams, fortunately, as they lost thousands in the end.
Don't let this put you off but you do need to see both sides.
 
I don't think it's wrong at all :) and It's a great learning curve but it involves a lot of risks.

My 6 month project is now still with me almost a year on and I have absolutely clicked with him ! My sister has took on my pony so as time's gone on, he's become 'my horse' .

... so I plan to buy another 'investment' horse :D although I will be buying a newly broken one to school, hack, bombproof and take to unaffiliated shows when ready. I aim to do this in 4 months-ish and sell as a 'potential' rather than proven BE/ BSJA horse- which obviously limits the sale price but I'm staying in my comfort zone for now :) All my horses so far have been unschooled pain in the backsides so I've learnt a few things along the way !
 
Crazy phone!!

I really don't think anyone is doubting your or your daughter's commitment to the cause! Just that if it were as easy as picking up an 'overlooked' horse or pony and producing it to Team level in 3 years then the ones that are in that group (most older than 8, it should be pointed out) would not be the price they are.

But that doesn't mean you can't have fun trying. :)
 
Morally there is nothing wrong with this as long as the horse is well looked after while it is in your care and you take some reasonable steps to find it a decent home when you want to sell it.

Financially it is completely foolhardy. If it was that easy to make money out of horses professional riders would be raking it in.

This doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. Do it, but do it for fun, for the experience, etc, just don't do it with the expectation of making a profit.
 
As everyone says, there is no moral problem at all woth your plan :) However, n the basis of the information you give us it does sound a little naive in terms of your goals and "business plan"... To get a just broken pony or horse to CCI* in 2 years is do-able but very ambitious, especially when ridden by an inexperienced teenager. I assume your daughter already has BE Novice experience or similar? Otherwise, to expect her to teach a young pony or a horse, and for them to learn together and to achieve the level you say you are aiming at, with the aim of making money on the horse is - in my view - unfair on both child and jockey. You may do it, but to embark on the project with a view to making money puts far too much pressure on them, why not go into it with a view to having fun, learning a lot and hopefully achieving some competitive goals. Whether you make money on the horse or not should be secondary, unless you and your daughter are an experienced, professional set-up, in which case you would not be on here asking the question.

Sorry if I sound a little harsh, but as I have a great deal of involvement with the scene to which you are referring and see many ambitious parents (and kids) who are unrealistic about how these things go, I find it a bit frustrating. And your understanding about the prices FEI ponies go for are simplistic and, to a degree, out of date.

If you and your daughter want to get involved with eventing either ponies or JRNs go ahead and do it, it is great fun and can be rewarding in so many ways, maybe even financial. But, for Christ's sake, don't try to do it to make money :(
 
Is it worth trying to find a nice pony for your daughter to have fun with for the next few years, with the goal that at the end they'll have both learnt a lot and you can hopefully sell the pony on for enough to buy a nice 'next stage up'?

Al used to do the riding/selling thing when she was younger on a very low-key scale (she got given nutters and spent a few months making them more normal rather than anything grand!) and she loved it but it was draining. Everything you do is going to have to be right for the pony to be sellable, every blip matters and it does make life more stressful...
 
To be honest, the cost in affiliating would eat any profit you may make.

Unless you're talking top level horses (olympic standard) there's very little (if any) money to be made.
 
Lots of sage advice here already, especially about pressure being put on kids.
Must say possibly the most revolting thing I've ever witnessed at BE was a mother cooing over a pony (ignoring her child) before xc and informing me proudly of the plan to sell him for a fortune (amount specified, yes it was 5 figures), concluding with "he's mummy's pension, aren't you?" Ugh. Of course the ensuing xc faults did not help... poor kid.
Putting money into it with the aim of having a great time and possibly getting a profit at the end might be more realistic!
 
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