Is it wrong?!

Thank you for all the advice. I think the conclusion is (and correct me if I'm wrong) that we should get a pony, trailer and all the equipment. We will then start to do a few be90s and be100s and proceed to PTs/Ns at the beginning of 2014 and hopefully get invited to withington and brand hall. Continuing competing through 2014 and repeat this in 2015 which will be her last year in ponies. Depending on her results she may not even get invited to the final selection process, she will however be having regular training and lessons which should help. On the other hand she could get on the European team and win double gold in her first year of doing PT and even get double gold the year after. Unlikely I know but it could happen. Either way I think I've came to the conclusion that its unfair putting pressure onto her and the pony. I really want to make her happy but the prices of this project are high. 20-25k. Hopefully the pony will be worth 18-22k after doing trials for 2 years and maybe even being a reserve for a euro team will push value up a bit. So could get a small profit (5-10k) or could end up losing 4k.
Please correct me if you disagree but this is the conclusion I've came from but I'm still willing to listen to any more advice you guys have?
 
She rides a 143cm pony for someone. She doesn't compete but she works at 1* level at home as she isn't allowed to compete him
 
Re your worst case scenario being the loss of 4k. . .surely the worst case scenario is a HUGE expense and no profit at all? And that's assuming that nothing REALLY bad happens. . .
 
Gosh if only it was so easy to throw £££ at something and end up with the dream ticket to the Euros!

The only ones who I know buy their way onto the team buy serious, serious ponies and have serious training and back up. I think there are roughly 150 ponies out there doing PT out of those only 6 will get to the Euros. That is pretty small odds. Even then ponies are not going for the mega money of the past. The elite still will fetch amazing money but they are very few and far between.

I think you are focusing on completely the wrong things and because of that the whole thing could well end in disaster. Why not buy a nice schoolmaster for less money and go and have some serious and safe fun while educating your daughter?

If this post is a wind up its a fun one and we all like to dream!
 
Thank you for all the advice. I think the conclusion is (and correct me if I'm wrong) that we should get a pony, trailer and all the equipment. We will then start to do a few be90s and be100s and proceed to PTs/Ns at the beginning of 2014 and hopefully get invited to withington and brand hall. Continuing competing through 2014 and repeat this in 2015 which will be her last year in ponies. Depending on her results she may not even get invited to the final selection process, she will however be having regular training and lessons which should help. On the other hand she could get on the European team and win double gold in her first year of doing PT and even get double gold the year after. Unlikely I know but it could happen. Either way I think I've came to the conclusion that its unfair putting pressure onto her and the pony. I really want to make her happy but the prices of this project are high. 20-25k. Hopefully the pony will be worth 18-22k after doing trials for 2 years and maybe even being a reserve for a euro team will push value up a bit. So could get a small profit (5-10k) or could end up losing 4k.
Please correct me if you disagree but this is the conclusion I've came from but I'm still willing to listen to any more advice you guys have?

Ok, frankly I think you are taking any pleasure out of this for you and your daughter. You are aiming incredibly high, not that there is anything wrong with that but having a very capable daughter who has produced 2 youngsters I know how much work, expense, heartache and frustration goes alongside horse owning and competing. Your daughter may be riding at 2* at home but believe me, this will be nothing like riding a 2* competition, or even a Novice. Please, go and get your daughter a capable pony, get out there and have fun. If she goes up the levels, great but do it without pressure on her or the pony.
I'm sorry but I am starting think you are trolling.
 
She rides a 143cm pony for someone. She doesn't compete but she works at 1* level at home as she isn't allowed to compete him

Does she have any competition experience? Training at home is very different to competing at a level. Normally people will train one or two levels above what they're competing at.

I think it's somewhat naive to expect that your daughter will be able to produce a 20k pony in the space of three years, particularly if she doesn't really have much competition experience. It's not impossible but depends on everything going totally to plan. If it doesn't, pony could easily be worth 5k or less.

If it was easy to produce a 20k horse, everyone would be doing it!
 
OP, I have read the whole thread and agree with most and you have been given sound advice how ever I feel I have to say that I think your game plan is well off. You can buy a pony for 20/25k that is already doing its job well but your daughter lacks competition experience. I do not see how she can educate a young pony to the level you are looking at. Both my girls compete BE ( 20 yrs and 15 yrs) and have done for 3 years ( the elder one slightly longer). Its very hard and takes a lot of dedication with some tears and disappointments a long the way.

Both my girls have their dreams ( we all should have them) but they also have realistic goals for the season and their horses. Good luck :)
 
Your daughter may be riding at 2* at home but believe me, this will be nothing like riding a 2* competition, or even a Novice. Please, go and get your daughter a capable pony, get out there and have fun. If she goes up the levels, great but do it without pressure on her or the pony.

This. x 1000. Honestly. I have seen SO many really competent riders over the years who did the craziest things in competition when under pressure. Of course some thrive on it but they are few and far between.
I think people are starting to get a bit rude, OP, because you've been given really sage advice from people who know what they are talking about in this specific niche and you seem to be virtually sticking your fingers in your ears going "Lalalalalala we're going to get on the Team" with a pony you haven't set eyes on yet and a daughter who hasn't evented yet...

I wish you all the luck in the world, don't get me wrong, but please aim to have fun etc and let the rest happen if it will!
 
Very sound advice has been given already but I would say making money buying and producing horses is very difficult and most businesses, mine included, are subsidised by other income from livery, teaching or in my case a full time job away from horses. You could get lucky but rather than pinning your hopes and focus on luck buy a nice horse or pony and enjoy the journey together with your daughter to wherever that takes you. You can't replace these years so make them enjoyable and don't put too much pressure on your daughter. As other have said, if it was that easy we'd all be millionaires ;)
 
I really don't think anyone is trying to be rude. There are people on this thread who have produced horses to the level you are aiming at, others who buy and sell professionally, others who train kids at the level your daughter wants to ride at. They - and the legions of other people who do similar - are not incompetent idiots who simply haven't figured out how to do it. They are giving you the benefit of their EXPERIENCE and the collective wisdom of the community.

And surely none of this is news to you? I presume you have an experienced trainer on board, advising you. Unless of course that person has JUST the green pony to start you off and/or a very attractive guaranteed.training package. . . . . . .
 
Sez1 assuming you aren't winding us all up, my biggest advice to you is to stop thinking about the financials, other than whether you can afford to buy and run a pony. The most sensible comment you have made is regarding the training: if your daughter enrolls on the Pony Programme she will gain access to the wonderful Jonquil who will do her best to help and guide you.

As to whether you get invited to Withington and Brand next year, assuming your pony qualifies for the early trials, it is a bit of a lottery: this year has been incredibly open and I have been a little amazed at some of the combinations which have been invited; last year was much tighter, and clears at the early trials were a pre-requisite. LEC's estimate is a little out, there are approximately 80 ponies doing trials n any one year (more registered with the Pony Programme for training), then 50 get invited to Withington and 40 to Brand. The thing to bear in mind is getting invited is only half the battle - the poor pony and kid then have to face the task they are set. If you look at the Withington results this year, you will see that many of them weren't up to it :(

The Pony Programme is tremendous fun and they learn loads and make friends for life, but if I review the people we know from our time in ponies, the people who have genuinely made a profit on their adventure would be two - plus one who finishes this year will, assuming her pony passes the vet when sold :o Those who have made a massive loss? Countless...
 
However I would insure against accidents.

Im afraid there's no such thing! My horse has cost me hundreds of euro in vet bills in the last 8 months and been off work for 4 of those months...all from an injury he sustained in the stable!

I really dont think the market is in a good condition at the moment, even the cost of registering a horse for BE.... or transport,entry fees, equipment costs, not to mention time,it really wont leave you with much of a profit! :o
 
Just to add again, it is a huge step up to PC Open, let alone BE Novice. Especially if you haven't got much experience at that level. My sister made the step up to PC Opens on a schoolmistress (a quirky one, with an awful stop and a big attitude, but a schoolmistress nonetheless!) and found it difficult enough as no one else around us was sufficiently experienced/ available.

The kids who do it well, seem to have parents/ someone around them for most of their training who has experience at at least Novice, if not more. I don't know if that's something that TD and co would agree with, but it's certainly what I've observed...

I'd buy the nicest pony you can afford, and work hard at them having the most fun. The ponies round us who sell for the bigger prices (£10k or so) are the ones who will go round a BE100/ PC Int. with a smile and will forgive the child for every mistake. The super smart ones who need correct riding are much harder to sell it seems as it is a niche market... Not many children are keen or ready for the height of the fences at PTs.

ETA: the worst isn't losing money. The worst is losing the horse and having to start again. Just had to do this, very talented little mare who developed ovarian cysts and had to be PTS- she went from being a serious prospect to that in under 3 weeks. Nothing could have insured against that, and insurance would have been bog all use- as a 'prospect', her value wasn't high.
 
I'd buy the nicest pony you can afford, and work hard at them having the most fun. The ponies round us who sell for the bigger prices (£10k or so) are the ones who will go round a BE100/ PC Int. with a smile and will forgive the child for every mistake. The super smart ones who need correct riding are much harder to sell it seems as it is a niche market.

My wife and I met on pony teams, we now - with the help of our 3 kids - produce horses, including ponies to the level you're discussing and higher. Lolo is 100% correct in what she says. The safe, point and shoot, but limited to jumping 1m - 1.1m I could sell over and over again, blank cheque style. The strictly speaking more talented ones, who could go round a ** or maybe even *** with the right riding are a whole lot harder to sell (and harder to come by!).

Producing any horse or pony isn't a case of purchase + time = profit. You cannot predict from seeing them as a 3 year old how they'll go under sadde, whether they'll have a nasty stop or be ditchy, or go and blow a tendon in the field. I have been lucky to profit from most of the horses I've sold, but certainly not all, and certainly not easily.

Also, whilst my kids love riding and competing now, I never make plans for the future with them. I never tell them they have to take x horse to y event and place z, to make sure we get enough points to sell them in the fall. I never tell them I'd like them to follow in our footsteps and do pony teams, or go to the Olympics, or get famous. My kids are allowed to determine their own destiny, they can decide if they don't feel like riding or showing because at te end of the day, for kids horses should be based on fun, not profit.
 
Surely this thread is a joke? The OP's daughter doesn't even compete? And she is talking about 2* within two years? Well they always say you should dream big!

In case you are actually serious I do think you are showing your inexperience in your belief that selling a pony/ horse for a large sum is very simple. A very dear friend paid a considerable sum of money for unbroken 3 year old gelding with impeccable breeding. Said horse went to a very well known pro who competes internationally to be broken and competed. Horse by all accounts lived up to his potential and was generating a lot of interest. Horse was due to compete at lion d'angers as a 5 year old and would be offered for sale after this with everyone expecting a great result from horse. Unfortunately 2 months prior horse blows a tendon and that's the end of that. Que massive vet bills for stem cell treatment, a year off work and a horse that now no longer is suitable to event but is sound enough not to be considered a write off thus no loss of use claim. Owner is massively out of pocket and has a horse that really can't be sold for anything. It would be great if this story was a rare occurrence but unfortunately is probably a more realistic outcome than producing a horse from scratch with minimum outlay, everything going perfectly to plan and selling said horse for a large sum of money. You would prob be better off putting all your money on a roll of a dice in a casino than trying to produce a top level competition horse or pony.
 
How, just as a by-the-by type thing, have you gone from being under 16 to being old enough to have a 12yo daughter in the past year?

I'm just curious, sorry!
 
How, just as a by-the-by type thing, have you gone from being under 16 to being old enough to have a 12yo daughter in the past year?

I'm just curious, sorry![/

Not sure we will get an answer, all's gone very quiet, probably doing entries for Hickstead, HOYS and Burghley. ;)
 
I've read this thread through - you'll be up against juniors with a string of ponies and unlimited resources. Chances of success are limited, to chances of you buying a pony good enough and that will keep doing it are limited. Your daughter has never competed and mast not like the reality. Pony or rider could be injured and throw the towel in.

Do it for fun and if pony appreciates you got lucky, otherwise may I recommend an equity isa!
 
Brilliant Lolo! I was discussing this thread with friends and said I thought this was the child trying to convince the parents ;) :D
 
OP, if you are the daughter trying to convince your parents, then maybe you're being smart, in a roundabout way, asking on here...
If you are serious about this you need a GREAT instructor, not just a good one, someone interested in you, someone REALLY experienced in eventing. You need a seriously excellent pony which will not come cheap. And you really don't need any further pressure on to try to make a profit at the end of it.
The trainer, and the size of the investment, luck in finding the right pony and it being tough, honest and talented, and your willingness to work, take criticism, not be a princess who thinks she's a fabulous rider already, will determine how far you get... not too many variables then! ;) ;) ;)
 
Ok. You figured me out. Yes I am only 13 and yes I'm tryin to convince my parents to get me a pony. Truth is- I'm becoming obsessed with pony eventing. Too much- to the state it's all I think about at school.
I have got a brilliant instructor and I do ride a 143cm pony. She said it would be a great experience. I have added up costs and compete in an event every 3 weeks. I would be planning to keep the pony for 2.5 years and the total costs would be 22k over this period of time. These prices are correct as I have has advice from instructors and people who compete in the sport themselves.
Honestly, I'm desperate to make this happen and thought that if we could get a profit at the end then my parents would go ahead.
I don't know what to do know though. At first people's advice was friendly then it started to become worse and eventually people thought it was a joke.
I'm sorry but now that I've come out could you please help me. This is a dream. I may not get onto European teams or even go to withington and brand hall but I would have at least known that I've tried my hardest and had an experience of a lifetime.
I just really need some help now. I'm sorry if I seemed transparent and I obviously have been as the majority of people have found out :(.
I've been honest now though and please give me some constructive advice. I'm so so sorry. Sorry :'( :(
 
I think you're best advice would be to really work on what you've got. You've got a pony. Can you compete her? Or join a PC? I would 100% advise joining your local PC branch and working really hard at getting to areas and things at PC Novice (90cm, 95cm SJ), maybe Int. (1m, 1.05m SJ). Then say to them look, I'm at this level which means I could hold my own BE and try and do a few events on a ticket. There are PC classes, and BEu18 classes for BE100 level.

Then you've built up your experience safely and steadily. Then if your pony feels ready, move on up to PC Opens/ BE Novices.

But essentially, the only way to make a small fortune with horses is to start with a large one. I know it sucks- my sister is as dedicated and hard working as they come but our family cannot afford to buy horses or ponies, so she rode what she could find. None were ever tremendously inspiring but it's impressive what a desperate teenager will event to get their fix, as you know. She managed to get some experience at PC Opens on 2 ponies, one of whom was a total freak of nature and really should not have been able to jump what he did (14hh cob, knee high feathers, extra wide saddle he was so solid!) and the other was a little bit crazy.

Now, she's riding professionally. The years slogging with whatever she could have turned into positives- people know she's keen, determined and used to riding the unusual. So people ask her to ride for them, and she's managed to finally find a horse she has produced to be almost ready for Novices, and new horse arriving tomorrow who will hopefully be a bit special. She took the first horse on in her years of being able to do PTs, which was the final nail in the coffin for that dream. Right now, you're best to learn to ride as well as you possibly can and be the nicest, most polite person ever out competing and hunting, and at any outings.
 
Well done for being honest now and doing a fairly convincing job in your OP but I think you do need is to be realistic in your ambitions and maybe your instructor could help you with this, if she is well connected she may be able to get you a pony to ride and compete on, even just low level PC competitions would get you started and show your parents how keen you are.
Joining PC would be a good way of making a start, there are often people with outgrown ponies that do not wish to sell but would love a rider to keep them going.
Your parents may be more willing to invest in a cheaper project pony, it may not take you where you want to go but could be another way of being seen and a stepping stone to greater things, if you did well they may then be happy to get more involved and spend more on the next one.
 
I have competed very low level baby horses and I have competed really good horses and in my experience you get just as much enjoyment out of doing the baby stuff as you do the big stuff. It is all relative.

You don't have to jump PTs to have a good day.
 
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