Is keeping TBs out in all weathers unrugged cruel?

[Wagtail]

I can understand not rugging natives, and I agree that ideally horses should have 24/7 all year round turnout (preferably with shelter), but really, do we have the right to do this to breeds that originated in hotter climates such as TBs and arabs? Personally I think it is wrong to breed fine skinned animals but yet expect them to rough it with the natives. What do others think?

*Free pop corn with this thread*

 

[Mince Pie]

I think you're barking Wagtail...

TB's cope perfectly fine if left to grow a decent winter coat - mine turned into a yak before I clipped her and even fully clipped is still only in a MW.

 

[Wagtail]

I think you're barking Wagtail...

TB's cope perfectly fine if left to grow a decent winter coat - mine turned into a yak before I clipped her and even fully clipped is still only in a MW.

Maybe I'm just too soft? Woof!

 

[touchstone]

I think it depends on the individual We've wintered out tb's with no problems, they've been warm and not lost weight with plenty of forage and shelter available and grown a good winter coat. Arabs can be notoriously hardy, deserts were cold as well as hot.

I also know some natives that don't do well in the winter (admittedly not many) and they benefit from being brought in, given shelter or rugged.

As long as any horse is happy and comfortable and maintaining correct weight I'd leave them to be horses.

 

[FanyDuChamp]

I will sound like a broken record but it all depends on the horse!

Some grow a great coat and are perfectly happy going out all year around and being unrugged others it would be hell for. As the owner of both types it is really a matter of suiting the horse, not the breed.
FDC

 

[Ranyhyn]

I voted not sure, depends on the horse. I think every animal is an individual, regardless of breeding and you get some TB's that grow an excellent coat and keep weight through winter. Some don't.
So I feel there's no blanket answer. If your TB copes well and keeps weight on - that's your decider.

 

[kerilli]

i'm with Wagtail, why would you not rug a tb? i mean, the amount of calories they'd use just keeping warm would probably double your feed bill. my tb is out 24/7 at the moment but she has a full-neck HW Fal on, plus more hay than she can eat, so i don't feel guilty even if it's freezing and peeing it down (as now). if she wasn't rugged i'd be worried sick that she'd get soaked through... they can cope with cold or wet but not both, no?
don't get me started on rugging foals and natives though...

 

[Wagtail]

Actually, I think I should have said warmbloods, as the finest winter coats I have seen have been on warmbloods.

Kerilli, I agree, they can live out quite happily but personally, I would want them rugged.

 

[Doncella]

My 7/8TB home bred foal is out now without a rug. She has a massively thick coat and is growing like a leek on hay, sugarbeet and basic cubes in a field on the West Wales coast.

 

[GemBav]

There is not a chance my Arab would be able to rough it with my Welsh C lol

I know some Arabs can achieve some sort of wooly coat in winter, however, my boy's winter coat is not much different to his fine summer coat and although he loves being out almost 24/7 during the warmer months, will stand at the fence/gate begging to come in after his few hours of play during the winter months.

Each to their own though as I find all horses are different (even within the same breed) so I suppose it depends on the horse xxx Not sure if an Arab or TB could create a thick enough coat to go completely unrugged through our Winter though?? Could be wrong lol

 

[GemBav]

lol wow there were no replys when I started to type my reply out and now there are a few who make my comment look simple haha

 

[kerilli]

let's not forget that horses can get pneumonia, some years ago a vet told me of a top 4* horse (which had just placed v highly at Burghley iirc, so wasn't chucked out retired) which was turned out without a rug for its hols for a few months and got pneumonia, i can't remember if it died or not but the vet was really shocked that it hadn't been rugged up at all (shocked enough to be indiscreet enough to tell me about it, put it that way!) so it's not just fluffy-bunny-huggy to want to rug up a thin-skinned blood horse...

 

[Winklepoker]

I wouldnt dream of leaving my WB without a rug all year... its the filth that bothers me! He is fully clipped and rugged to the eyeballs!

 

[Jnhuk]

No I don't think it is cruel.

However, I think you need to use common sense. If there is shelter - natural or man made for the horse to get out of the bad weather, the horse is in good condition and develops a good winter coat & not prone to rain scald, not needing to be clipped or worked in the winter, and doesn't lose weight or condition due to using energy to keep warm, then I don't see an issue with it.

In summary, depends on your horse and your turnout!

 

[*hic*]

It depends on the horse!

Two of my nearly full TBs (7/8 and 3/4) are warm beasties and are now clipped out and are still finding it bit warm in 100g fills. My other nearly full TB is unclipped but needs a 200g fill.

One of my Welshies is unclipped and unrugged whereas the other was the most temperature sensitive horse I have ever owned and would have been happiest with 300g on at the moment.

My AngloArab mare used to grow an amazing woolly coat and it was only MY guilty feeling that meant that she was rugged, her coat was the equal of my hardy Welsh.

 

[TGM]

As others have said, it depends on the individual TB, the thickness of its coat and also how much shelter is available and the surrounding local climate. A tough hairy TB might do well naked in my sheltered fields down south but might suffer terribly on an exposed northern hillside!

As to why not rug up 'just in case', well some horses just hate being rugged for some reason, so if I had a hardy TB with a thick coat who was a rug-hater I would probably turn it out unrugged and see how it fared!

 

[Tnavas]

Most winter out fine so long as they can grow a coat, one of mine grew feathers like a carthorse in winter.

You just have to play it by ear. See how they cope and act accordingly

 

[tallyho!]

Oh jeezuz.... isn't there anything better to talk about than rugging the frikkin' horses???

 

[TGM]

Oh jeezuz.... isn't there anything better to talk about than rugging the frikkin' horses???

Perhaps you should start a new and much more intellectually stimulating thread on a fascinating and original subject if this one is not to your liking!

 

[*hic*]

let's not forget that horses can get pneumonia, some years ago a vet told me of a top 4* horse (which had just placed v highly at Burghley iirc, so wasn't chucked out retired) which was turned out without a rug for its hols for a few months and got pneumonia, i can't remember if it died or not but the vet was really shocked that it hadn't been rugged up at all (shocked enough to be indiscreet enough to tell me about it, put it that way!) so it's not just fluffy-bunny-huggy to want to rug up a thin-skinned blood horse...

Pneumonia is normally the result of a bacterial infection so wearing a rug or not would not have made any difference to the horse getting it. However once diagnosed one would expect the horse to be lept warm (rugged!) to aid recovery.

 

[be positive]

It doesnt just depend on the horse, it is also dependent on the field, I am on low lying clay which gets very wet but also have biggish fields that are fully hedged so plenty of natural shelter so in a dry cold year they may be ok but at the moment in driving rain would not.
I have 2 PBAs living out at the moment both rugged as one got rainscald in November, this is another thing to consider.
I think if turned away, either breeding stock or retired they are possibly allright if well sheltered but as others have said why should they be allright I want mine to be comfortable and healthy.
I think there is a tendency to lump all "horses" into the same box, native ponies and cobs are generally tougher and better equipped to deal with weather in extremes whereas the finer breeds are not, many will not grow a thick enough coat, especially if they are also in some form of work.
So imo each situation is very different and I have at times got very annoyed by some of the posts on here from the "no rug, live out brigade" I think they need a name. Maybe a post to find one

 

[PorkChop]

Depends on the horse and whether it is in work - and natural shelter in a field can make a huge difference.

 

[Jesstickle]

I said no but obviously it depends on the horse, how much shelter, whether forage/grass is ad lib etc.

But people who think TBs can't grow a proper coat are more than welcome to come and meet mine. She has a coat on her to rival any native pony! Puppy has seen her recently, I'm sure she'll tell you how hairy she is!

 

[stencilface]

I used to keep my blanket clipped TB out with a NZ on. Now we're talking NZ here (was the old days!) not a 'turnout' rug. So a canvas rug with wool lining, no neck, one strap at front and two rear leg straps - to be fair - it never slipped or moved, but the wind must have whooshed straight through. Had he been unclipped I don't doubt the little nut job could have coped without a rug (but he was a filthy horse so always had some kind of rug). 20 years ago we didn't have the rugs around now, it was only the canvas ones with no neck with a seam (that leaked!) down the middle. I'm sure some horses that used to cope in them, would cope with no rug.

This is the first year I have not clipped my Luso x TB, and I always thought he had a v thick coat as I sued to have to clip him in summer if doing odes etc, his coat may be thick, but its not long, aside from the face whiskers he doesn't looked much shaggier than in summer! (he is rugged though!)

 

[Jesstickle]

Pneumonia is normally the result of a bacterial infection so wearing a rug or not would not have made any difference to the horse getting it. However once diagnosed one would expect the horse to be lept warm (rugged!) to aid recovery.

/\/\/\/\ This

Getting cold can not in of itself make you sick. It can make you slightly more susceptible to any bugs that are doing the rounds but that is all!

 

[Capriole]

Take two of my TB mares, one has a coat like a woolly mammoth, doesnt wear a rug, doesnt like rugs, try putting a rug on her at your peril. The other wears a rug. Shrugs

Its all about the horse, not putting a rug on anything that moves because it makes ME feel all warm and cosy

Next doors native ponies have been rugged for months, do they need them? I dont know, I leave it up to the owner and dont get worked up about what other people do with their horses

 

[Archangel]

Having worked on both a TB and Arab stud where none of the living out broodmares were rugged, or even fed anything other than ad lib hay I am not so sure. They all wintered well and held condition and never look miserable, but they lived in a big harmonious group in very big fields with lots of natural shelter on all sides. Left up to me I would have probably fed and rugged them all and rapidly gone out of business!

 

[Jesstickle]

Having worked on both a TB and Arab stud where none of the living out broodmares were rugged, or even fed anything other than ad lib hay I am not so sure. They all wintered well and held condition and never look miserable, but they lived in a big harmonious group in very big fields with lots of natural shelter on all sides. Left up to me I would have probably fed and rugged them all and rapidly gone out of business!

We had TB broodies that were out just like this. They also seemed to do very well.

 

[Firewell]

No I wouldn't leave my TB out without a rug in winter, he wouldn't last I don't think!

 

[HashRouge]

Generally, a TB or an Arab is unlikely to winter out as well as a native breed if it is left unrugged. Obviously there are exceptions, but I think it is important to bear this in mind before just popping the horse out without a rug in wet and freezing weather. It's always worth getting to know the horse first so that you know how it copes with extreme weather conditions. I'd always be inclined to start by rugging and then take them off if the horse didn't need them, certainly with a breed like a TB or an Arab, rather than the other way round.
My Arab was living out into November this year without a rug on but I know she couldn't do it right through the winter as her coat just doesn't get thick enough and certainly wouldn't keep her dry. Cold, dry weather is much better for her than slightly milder, wet weather as she doesn't have enough to keep the water off her skin and is prone to rain scald.