Is keeping TBs out in all weathers unrugged cruel?

[Wagtail]

Perhaps you should start a new and much more intellectually stimulating thread on a fascinating and original subject if this one is not to your liking!

 

[Wagtail]

Oh jeezuz.... isn't there anything better to talk about than rugging the frikkin' horses???

You clicked on it....

 

[marmalade76]

I can understand not rugging natives, and I agree that ideally horses should have 24/7 all year round turnout (preferably with shelter), but really, do we have the right to do this to breeds that originated in hotter climates such as TBs and arabs? Personally I think it is wrong to breed fine skinned animals but yet expect them to rough it with the natives. What do others think?

If they are healthy, well fed and have shelter, natural or otherwise, then absolutely not.

As for TBs and Arabs originating from hotter climes, the TB was developed in THIS country and, AFAIA, the derserts that the Arabs originate from are very cold at night!

 

[Wagtail]

Generally, a TB or an Arab is unlikely to winter out as well as a native breed if it is left unrugged. Obviously there are exceptions, but I think it is important to bear this in mind before just popping the horse out without a rug in wet and freezing weather. It's always worth getting to know the horse first so that you know how it copes with extreme weather conditions. I'd always be inclined to start by rugging and then take them off if the horse didn't need them, certainly with a breed like a TB or an Arab, rather than the other way round.
My Arab was living out into November this year without a rug on but I know she couldn't do it right through the winter as her coat just doesn't get thick enough and certainly wouldn't keep her dry. Cold, dry weather is much better for her than slightly milder, wet weather as she doesn't have enough to keep the water off her skin and is prone to rain scald.

Yes, maybe I should have rephrased the question. I do know of a couple of TBs that have grown an exceptionally thick winter coat and would probably cope. But personally I think that 'cope' is the word. Would needlessly burn much needed caloriies I think.

 

[Jesstickle]

Yes, maybe I should have rephrased the question. I do know of a couple of TBs that have grown an exceptionally thick winter coat and would probably cope. But personally I think that 'cope' is the word. Would needlessly burn much needed caloriies I think.

I don't think you've met enough TB's Wagtail. We had 30 naked broodies, all were fine. My own is fine.

Here is the hairy yak incase you don't believe me!

She is clearly ribby and scrawny in both of these. In the second she is in at night (as that is my yard rules!) but the first she lived out totally

 

[Capriole]

nope, 'cope' is not the word for what my Yak does, she thrives

 

[Keimanp]

I voted not sure....

If we are talking about a TB that looks like a Hat Rack, and doesn't do very well when the temperature drops then yes it is cruel.

If we are talking about a well weighted TB that develops a fluffy coat (Some TB's can develop such an amazing teddy bear effect!) that is happy to be out then no its not cruel.

It depends on the individual horse, regardless of breed, as to whether or not they should be un-rugged or rugged in winter. There is no breed checklist as to 'must be rugged' or 'mustn't be rugged'

 

[millitiger]

My Tb gets a hugely thick coat and would do very well through winter with no rug as long as she had enough forage (she doesn't need hard feed if she is not working).

Lots of the big NH studs have bands of weanlings/yearlings wintering out without rugs and they more than 'cope' as long as they have enough forage and some shelter in form of manmade or a hedge.

I have known so many tb's to winter out perfectly well rugless, they are no less hardy than other breeds if brought up that way.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

Having worked on both a TB and Arab stud where none of the living out broodmares were rugged, or even fed anything other than ad lib hay I am not so sure. They all wintered well and held condition and never look miserable, but they lived in a big harmonious group in very big fields with lots of natural shelter on all sides. Left up to me I would have probably fed and rugged them all and rapidly gone out of business!

^^^ This.
As my vet remarked to a livery last winter during the big freeze, ' Get the bloody rugs off. The only horses that need rugs are sick or clipped horses'.
Have to agree with him as a general principle, he looks after TB broodmares worth six figures that are out 24/7 unrugged, only fed hay in the field and are healthier than most of his other client's horses.

My TBX's manage fine wintered out without rugs, but they have access to shelter and plenty of hay. Unfortunately, have had to rug recently just to keep the wet mud off enough to ride.

 

[amandap]

You left out "it depends" in your poll.

 

[kerilli]

Pneumonia is normally the result of a bacterial infection so wearing a rug or not would not have made any difference to the horse getting it. However once diagnosed one would expect the horse to be lept warm (rugged!) to aid recovery.

fairy nuff, i think the point was that this thin-skinned super-fit (so no insulating fat) horse was chucked out regardless, ignored, and left that way when it started sickening... and went rapidly downhill.
(a friend of mine ended up hospitalised with double pneumonia after a 3-hour battle in driving sleet to get her recalcitrant toddler into the car-seat... the docs said that had been a major contributory factor, she told me, so maybe i'm paranoid about horses or humans getting soaked through and freezing!)

 

[Zimzim]

Think it depends on the individual horses some prefer being out, grow thick coats and dont loose condition and do just fine, and then theres others that require more maintenance.

 

[Luci07]

Really depends on the horses. Old TB x cob mare - unclipped is already in HW and MW stable rug plus leg wraps. Younger ID x TB is still only in a MW (clipped). Wimpiest horse on the yard who feels the cold the most is a section A living out. He is so wimpy that when it gets really cold, he won't drink the cold water and has to be brought in just to ensure his water intake stays up. (on re reading that.. he could actually be incredibly clever!)

 

[*hic*]

fairy nuff, i think the point was that this thin-skinned super-fit (so no insulating fat) horse was chucked out regardless, ignored, and left that way when it started sickening... and went rapidly downhill.

That is the horrendous bit - that someone had so little commonsense that they would do that.

 

[Puppy]

I said no but obviously it depends on the horse, how much shelter, whether forage/grass is ad lib etc.

But people who think TBs can't grow a proper coat are more than welcome to come and meet mine. She has a coat on her to rival any native pony! Puppy has seen her recently, I'm sure she'll tell you how hairy she is!

VERY!!

My very well bred WB is out, 24/7, naked. She is the best doer I've ever known and is retired, therefore it is hard to keep her trim. I'm sure she'd rather grow her own coat and have plenty of hay to munch on, than to have a rug and me to restrict her food intake.

 

[DifficultMare]

I think an awful lot depends on the individual horse. If it's fine and happy unrugged and living out then great, providing there is some sort of shelter available and plenty of forage I don't see a problem. I think it's really only wrong if the horse is clearly suffering and really not happy - that goes for any breed/type of horse, they're all different.

 

[Ibblebibble]

i rug according to need rather than breed yes my TBX is rugged but purely because she is grey and a dirty biatch!!! if i want to be able to ride over the winter she needs a rug or i need an extra hour a day to groom her!, i would prefer not to rug her as she grumps at being rugged. i know a breeder up in N wales who breeds NH TB's who winter out rugless, all healthy happy chunky TB's

 

[Horses24-7]

I can understand not rugging natives, and I agree that ideally horses should have 24/7 all year round turnout (preferably with shelter), but really, do we have the right to do this to breeds that originated in hotter climates such as TBs and arabs? Personally I think it is wrong to breed fine skinned animals but yet expect them to rough it with the natives. What do others think?

*Free pop corn with this thread*

This ^^^

So many people say, they're horses they're built to live out without rugs etc but forget how we have genetically modified them through selective breeding and the outcome is a lot of thin skinned breeds.

 

[monkeybum13]

Some of you would hate to see the local polo ponies, 60+ wintering out with no rugs on. They're not exactly natives and they cope fine!

i rug according to need rather than breed

I'm loving that quote!

 

[Wagtail]

This ^^^

So many people say, they're horses they're built to live out without rugs etc but forget how we have genetically modified them through selective breeding and the outcome is a lot of thin skinned breeds.

We have also bred them with weak hooves and so some of them cannot go barefoot. I know an owner who has been making her TB go barefoot for 3 yeas and he is hardly ever sound. His soles are so thin they move when you press them, so why persevere with a horse like this? I am not against barefoot BTW and if a horse can go barefoot without too many problems then why not? But we cannot expect all horses to be able to because we have bred them that way.

 

[claireandnadia]

Although personally never owned a TB, I've seen plenty of unrugged tb's living out perfectly fine.

 

[Wagtail]

Some of you would hate to see the local polo ponies, 60+ wintering out with no rugs on. They're not exactly natives and they cope fine!






I'm loving that quote!

'Cope' being the operative word

 

[scarymare]

I said no to this.

I have a TB and live in Aberdeenshire. She is feeding her late foal so can't be rugged (foals get hung).

Both she and foal would be in normally, and she would be having lots of colic attacks (18 year old serial cribber).

Because of my injured broody she is out with foal. I cannot believe the difference in her. Despite the hellish wind and rain this year she looks better than she ever has at this time of year. Before I chucked them out she was ribby, tucked up etc (probably from all the cribbing). She spends her days chomping on the ad-lib early cut haylage etc.

I do think a bedded shelter is a must though.

 

[monkeybum13]

'Cope' being the operative word

Or I could have said they are as happy as larry, which they are

 

[tallyho!]

Perhaps you should start a new and much more intellectually stimulating thread on a fascinating and original subject if this one is not to your liking!

No because there aren't any intellectual people to read it!

 

[glenruby]

Have to admit I think you are barking too! And just had to point out that the TB is also a native breed and did not originate in hotter climates! I think it all depends on the individual horse. I've seen many Thorougjbreds live out I rugged just fine in just hay, others require hard feed and tugging to maintain weight. To say all TBs require rugging is foolish.

 

[Holly Hocks]

I don't think it's a problem providing there is plenty of hay/haylage and enough field shelter, but it depends on the horse. Personally I like mine to be rugged, but surely we're all intelligent enough to know when a horse needs rugging or not rugging! Aren't we??

 

[monkeybum13]

No because there aren't any intellectual people to read it!

Shu'up I is like well clefer so wud underztand it, like.

 

[catherine22]

My retired mare, who is mostly TB, is out unrugged and was for the whole of last winter and loves it, she has a massive coat and creates herself a new one with a layer of mud daily and is never cold or drops any weight (no hard feed just hay over the winter)
Interestingly (well I think it is) I clipped her - just gullet and belly, when it was really hot at the start of the winter as she was getting too hot and at the same time fully clipped my other 2 who are in work, they were then well rugged up. However their clips grew out much quicker than the retired horse whose clip you can still clearly see now
So her own coat is keeping her much warmer than the rugs are keeping the other 2, despite being out in the elements (she is rugged in the driving rain and wind, even tho she'd much rather not be!)
Well, I found it interesting!

 

[crabbymare]

We have recently had a TB broodmare sent here who in winter has previously had feed and adlib hay, been stabled nights and rugged but according to the owner never looked particularly well covered.
She is now living out with a shelter that from the lack of hoof marks, droppings and disturbance in the straw does not get used, they get no short food at the moment. She has put on weight and in the last few weeks has started to develop a topline that some ridden horses would be proud of and looks better than her owners have seen her.
It is not cruel to have them living out with no rugs, but it is cruel to have any horse be it TB or native living out that is not able to cope with the cold without additional help.