Is long reining really that important

[Tinseltoes]

My cobblet was proffessionally broken in a few years back and she long reined him etc and taught me how to long rein correctly and also lunge on two reins.My boy hates long reining but he will be needing it as not been ridden for 2 years.
I think its essential with some horses!

 

[MagicMelon]

I've backed and brought on a few horses/ponies (although we're only talking maybe 10) and I've never long reined any of them. They've all turned out very well.

 

[Goldenstar]

I have tried a few times, I just bloody hate it!

Have spoken to LouS, I'm going to try long reining on a circle as its something I feel much more confident with xx

If you hate it don't do it.

 

[YasandCrystal]

I really like long reining but I concur with JanetGeorge that many folk cannot do it and you need to do it well. It really is an art. It is invaluable in rehabilitation and training the young horse imo.
There are several ways of long-reining - I personally prefer standing to the side of the horse rather than behind in a driving position. This makes circle work easier.
With long reining you can simulate riding without the weight of a rider. I love Fritz Stahleckers DVDs on 'In-hand work for the Young Dressage Horse' - he is harmony at work with the horse - so patient - so knowlegeable and he has his young dressage horses doing every movement in the long reins and moving correctly before they get a rider on board. That is very impressive imo and kind to the horse. It also means you get a very sensitive horse that is not reliant on a strong leg. I love the way Edward Gal rides with a featherlight leg contact, yet his amazing seat and balance bring such expression from his horses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6k20iTSbCOE

And yes it is harder work for the handler as you are walking/moving - all the time.

 

[horsesatemymoney]

Hi, nothing constructive to add really but I just want to say thanks for all the ideas, especially to JanetGeorge for being so generous with her advice.

 

[Holly Hocks]

I love long-reining. I'm rehabbing my TB mare at the moment and she is a bugger to try and lead out in hand, but on the long-reins she's great! So we are currently doing about 30-40 minutes per day. I started off with no roller or saddle, just the reins to bit. She is now having the saddle on as it's a bit of a re-breaking exercise, but I don't put the reins through the stirrups or saddle, still just to the bit. As she started to be quite nappy when she was last ridden I find it much easier to get her forwards when I am behind her. She won't kick - of that I am 100% sure, so when she has tried to spin I've been quick with my stick and she has shot forwards again. She certainly doesn't go overbent and just has a natural head-carriage as I interfere as little as possible with her - she has always been very light in the mouth

My youngster will be long-reined as well, in a similar manner - not because I necessarily think that it will do much "good" as she is a confident little sod anyway, but I want her to be independent and I don't want to have to rely on other horses going out with me all the time when she is broken in next year.

 

[Cedars]

Have been on long walk in rain with dog and decided that I am going to stick to my guns and say I'm not happy being stood that close behind her-my life is too busy and important right now to get booted in the face. I'm going to try all the various options and see which one I prefer-or if that's none, I'll just pay my instructor to do it and watch. Spent most of yesterday and today in tears on and off about it and it's not worth stressing about!

 

[fuzzle]

you must do what you feel comfortable doing and if your not confident then your doing the right thing hun you will pick up and learn by atching your instructor of maybe when she is settling into long reining maybe the time will come where you can help under your instructors supervision and you will know when that time is right!!!!! no use at all getting yourself upset hun i feel like that when im not sure about things continue with the work that you do enjoy with her, good luck hun keep us all posted how you get on xxxxxx

 

[Cedars]

Thanks! bloody animals, never known anything put me through the ringer as much as this one!

 

[fuzzle]

thats horses for you !!!!!!!!! one day you will look back and laugh hun, thats the beauty of horses we are all forever learning!!!! which area are you from??? may have some friends in your area whom would be willing to help you xxxxxxx

 

[Spot_the_Risk]

Great post, and very usefull. We don't have a school, and tried to long rein our home bred last year before backing, but it just wasn't happening, and as another poster was said, she wasn't easy in hand, riding was much simpler! She went out under saddle very quickly, always with an older field mare as companion. I have a riding three year old to lightly back this summer, and will do it differently - they are very different personalities, he has bonded strongly with me, and trusts me, so I'm going to lead him out and progress from there. First lead out was supposed to be today, but gales and driving rein + youngster = big fat NO!

 

[Cedars]

I'm in Gloucestershire. My instructor is fab, I just want to get everything right for her and that's bloody difficult!

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

I love it and find it invaluable. Since I'm always the rider and my husband does all the groundwork, it makes my job much easier. However I would not tell someone like Janet she is wrong for not doing it! It's just part of our system and works very well.

Terri

 

[Deseado]

I never longrein youngsters (I reckon I've broken in 100+ youngsters over 35 years), although I was taught to break that way many years ago. It's the "normal" way here, but I consider it not only old fashioned, but actually harmful unless the driver is very experienced (and unless horse is to be a driving animal, of course). Mostly this is because YOU DON'T STEER BY THE REINS, you use all the aids together (or at least, you should.....). I n America they call it "plough reining", and this is the very best description I can think of.

 

[Ibblebibble]

i love long reining too! i prefer it to lunging as all those circles make me dizzy With the late starter lunging was going nowhere, he just doesn't like the lunge line or the whip, even though i could rub the whip all over him, seeing it pointing at him he hated and still does so i went straight to long lining and he is not phased at all by the lunge lines going along his sides, just doesn't like it anywhere else!!

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

I'm pretty sure most of us don't need to be "yelled" at in all caps that you don't steer with the reins. Although when I'm galloping racehorses with my ass out of the saddle and my stirrups up, I beg to differ slightly. Just because I long line does not mean my horses have hard crap mouths, do not know what the leg is for, and I have to kick them around the place. Sheesh.

I have respect for other people, especially someone like Janet. No need to assume the rest of us are incompetent because we choose to long line.

Terri

 

[Fools Motto]

Having not been confident to long line the TB yearlings last year - and telling my boss so, I've gone away, had some help and have been long lining mine. My mare is a dream to do, she has taught me where to be, what to do - so I've transfered what I've learnt from her, and put it into practice on my 2 yr old filly. I can't tell you how happy I'm with myself and the filly. I've really enjoyed doing it, and will continue to do so. It has given the filly something to think about - she has needed that for a few months now! We walk and trot, change direction and stop. We work on circles and going straight, - not for very long max 10 mins, but her attitude has pleased me loads!
I consider it an art, I'm not brilliant, but I'm gaining experience.
I make sure that on the filly, I don't clip the lines directly to the bit - I use the side of the head collar. Therefore, A) I'm never going to ''pull on the mouth'', B) if it did go wrong and she got away from me, her mouth won't have any pressure.
My personal advice, if you can't do it well, don't do it at all - as that is where the slippery slope starts.

This summer, with the current yearlings I feel I'll be able to do my boss and them proud!

 

[YasandCrystal]

I never longrein youngsters (I reckon I've broken in 100+ youngsters over 35 years), although I was taught to break that way many years ago. It's the "normal" way here, but I consider it not only old fashioned, but actually harmful unless the driver is very experienced (and unless horse is to be a driving animal, of course). Mostly this is because YOU DON'T STEER BY THE REINS, you use all the aids together (or at least, you should.....). I n America they call it "plough reining", and this is the very best description I can think of.

Sorry, but if you actually knew how to long line properly you would not even be making these naive comments imo. You just need to look at the calibre of some of the proficient users of the method and the level of horses they produce to see the excellent results this method can have.

 

[MrVelvet]

I cannot quote but nicely put yasandcrystal!!! This was a thread asking for opinions. Everyone has their own ways that work for them. What a rude ignorant person to pipe up with that!! I could tell her horses will have knackered joints from lunging instead! But of course, I am not that stupid or rude!

 

[dominobrown]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6k20iTSbCOE

And yes it is harder work for the handler as you are walking/moving - all the time.

What a brillant vid, as are the related videos on there.

 

[Tinypony]

I honestly don't think that Deseado was rude and ignorant, just expressing a different opinion.
Longlining is a much loved conventional way to work a horse. I'm surprised that people don't realise that there are reasons why many horsepeople avoid it though. They avoid it because they cannot replicate the "feel" in the horse's mouth that they would wish to have when the horse is ridden. Plus, the point about training the horse from the start to respond to the body primarily, not the rein. That doesn't mean that a lot of "professionals" don't use longlining and find it useful when producing a horse to the standard they require, but it really doesn't suit everyone.
I stopped longlining a few years back for pretty much the reasons that Deseado describes. when I mentioned this to the respected trainer who had taught me how to longline effectively in the first place, it was interesting to hear that he had also stopped doing it.
No criticism, but surely it's worth acknowledging that people do things differently, and that their reasons may be just as valid as anyone else's?

 

[YasandCrystal]

I honestly don't think that Deseado was rude and ignorant, just expressing a different opinion.
Longlining is a much loved conventional way to work a horse. I'm surprised that people don't realise that there are reasons why many horsepeople avoid it though. They avoid it because they cannot replicate the "feel" in the horse's mouth that they would wish to have when the horse is ridden. Plus, the point about training the horse from the start to respond to the body primarily, not the rein. That doesn't mean that a lot of "professionals" don't use longlining and find it useful when producing a horse to the standard they require, but it really doesn't suit everyone.
I stopped longlining a few years back for pretty much the reasons that Deseado describes. when I mentioned this to the respected trainer who had taught me how to longline effectively in the first place, it was interesting to hear that he had also stopped doing it.
No criticism, but surely it's worth acknowledging that people do things differently, and that their reasons may be just as valid as anyone else's?

Yes Tinypony and of course as with any method it has to suit you and one has to consider what level you are producing to also. I think people avoid it because it is so darned hard to do it well - experts make it look a breeze, but it isn't. And if you use it in a 'driving style' yes I can understand you would see it as counter productive, but then if you use it in this way you are not long reining properly imo.
My objection to Deseado's words were the naivity in exclaiming that long reining is about steering with the reins.
The whole point of long reining is teach a horse to go forward into the contact and engage the hind quarters, without the burden of a rider's weight. The long lines simulate reins for the contact. There was no mention made of the all important 'voice' commands, body language for steering by the poster which I would quote as mainly be used NOT the reins and mouth. We all use (or should) primarily use body language for lunging and the same for long reining one's body placement and language are a vital visual aid for the horse. A whip - that is used as a signal/aid to move the horse over/forward/backward/sideways. I could go on. I would love to be able to long rein to the level of the greats like Fritz Stahlecker, but that's like saying I want to ride like Edward Gal. But if I can understand the principles and apply just a fraction of his knowledge to my long lining work I know my horse will benefit.
If you watch the snippet of his work on Youtube via the link I posted in an earlier thread you may get a glimpse of what the man achieves via long reining.
Also I think the Cadre Noire and the Viennese School would have a comment or 2 in the art's defence!The clip below shows the excellent use of body language in long reining.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMsjUNxhPgo&feature=related

 

[Goldenstar]

IMO the thing about long riening to get the horse out and about is that you need two people so that if the horse loses it forwardness you can correct with out steering on the rien to much.
Driving horses need to be long riening as they need to learn that the commands come from behind the and they must walk forwards when told at all times it also accustoms them to the blinkers and is used to indroduce them to pulling wieght as their training progresses.
It goes without saying if you are breaking baby's you need to be good at it long riening and it's perfectly possible to train ridden horses without .
All ways are 'right ' in the apporiate circumstances.

 

[Goldenstar]

Yes Tinypony and of course as with any method it has to suit you and one has to consider what level you are producing to also. I think people avoid it because it is so darned hard to do it well - experts make it look a breeze, but it isn't. And if you use it in a 'driving style' yes I can understand you would see it as counter productive, but then if you use it in this way you are not long reining properly imo.
My objection to Deseado's words were the naivity in exclaiming that long reining is about steering with the reins.
The whole point of long reining is teach a horse to go forward into the contact and engage the hind quarters, without the burden of a rider's weight. The long lines simulate reins for the contact. There was no mention made of the all important 'voice' commands, body language for steering by the poster which I would quote as mainly be used NOT the reins and mouth. We all use (or should) primarily use body language for lunging and the same for long reining one's body placement and language are a vital visual aid for the horse. A whip - that is used as a signal/aid to move the horse over/forward/backward/sideways. I could go on. I would love to be able to long rein to the level of the greats like Fritz Stahlecker, but that's like saying I want to ride like Edward Gal. But if I can understand the principles and apply just a fraction of his knowledge to my long lining work I know my horse will benefit.
If you watch the snippet of his work on Youtube via the link I posted you may get a glimpse of what the man achieves via long reining.

what on earth do you mean by a driving style , there is no difference in the way you indroduce a young horse to long riening if you going to ride or drive it the early training is the same.
With a horse intended for driving you would spend more time on the out and about type long riening and during this time they start to learn the role of the groom that will be important when they are first driven but the principles of the method are exactly the same we don't slap them with the riens and go giddy up you know that's for old western films

 

[astewart13]

I think its invaluable! Lunging is great for teaching a horse to go forwards, but long reining teaches balance, straight lines and steering as well as cementing voice commands, independence and helping a horse learn correct head carriage. The way young horses cross their legs over when walking is because they unbalanced, to expect them to become totally balanced and straight with a rider on board without first mastering it on their own, is a bit of a tall order I think.

My three year old has been backed and lightly ridden however I am still long reining with side reins, a crypt and top reins to teach him to mouth correctly and carry his head in the right position. He is also learning about cars and the local area as we are doing this on the road.

 

[rosiejones]

I havnt read all the replies so might be repeating, I use Longlining for almost all the babies and also all the remedials I start. It helps so much to have a roundpen to introduce them as then you never have to pull at all and can introduce rein aids lightly. I often don't though, if working with a horse and owner at their premises, and there are some good tricks to get a horse used to the long reins and the aids rather than just going for it. Bad long reining is worse than no long reining, but good long reining sets a horse up well to understand rein aids of the rider and to be physically an mentally ready for ridden exercises. This is especially true if starting horses without an experienced groundperson to help, as long reins create a more educated horse to the introduction of riders aids. I wouldn't be without it, but each to their own, there are many ways to smoke a fish! X

 

[YasandCrystal]

what on earth do you mean by a driving style , there is no difference in the way you indroduce a young horse to long riening if you going to ride or drive it the early training is the same.
With a horse intended for driving you would spend more time on the out and about type long riening and during this time they start to learn the role of the groom that will be important when they are first driven but the principles of the method are exactly the same we don't slap them with the riens and go giddy up you know that's for old western films

By driving style I mean long reining the horse from behind, nothing to do with slapping it or anything like that. I have broken my pony to drive and I long reined him and got him dragging tyres. I also taught him to turn right and left by voice as well as the different gaits. I do not like long reining my riding horses from behind - I prefer and use the side on method, so I can engage the horses very much with my body language also.

FYI there are 4 methods of long reining, the Danish, English, French and Viennese methods, as reflected in the different equipment used. It is down to preference to long rein from behind or the side.