Is my friends new horse lame?

J

JoshuaR97

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 August 2015
Messages
236
Visit site
Well one week today my friend brought an 8 yo TB from an online auction off Facebook..(don't ask!). This horse was 5 hours away so couldn't be viewed or tried but he brought him and collected him and brought him straight home. The old owner that morning had him newly shod and his receipt said no returns under any circumstance. I watched my friend lunge him a day or two ago as we let him settle in and he looked "sound" so no alarms started ringing but I rode him yesterday and I felt on the right rein he didn't feel right but on the left he is better but not 100%. My friend is only getting back into riding so doesn't have the feel yet. I watched my friend ride him again today and something is telling me this horse isn't sound. The horse does have white hairs on his back from a damaged saddle along the lines but he got a saddle with him and I said about getting it checked out but my question is how do I bring myself to telling my friend that his new horse might not be sound? The thing is he saved up for sometime to buy a horse and I'm not sure what to really say that he might have brought a lame horse..
 
So he had time to save...why not take time to go and view suitable horses?! To buy a horse off facebook stamped with no returns under any circumstances is absolutely ludicrous!! Id be really surprised if it was sound :( have you had a saddle fitter out? Good ones can usual tell if there's been previous saddle soreness, also advise your friend to maybe get him vet checked just as a precautionary and also a good mctimoney chiropractor.
 
I struggle to imagine why an inexperienced person would even consider buying a horse this way, it is beyond my comprehension that they could think it was a good idea, not many people would buy a car without seeing it so to buy a living creature this way, or to sell it for that matter, makes me despair of what the horse world is coming to.


Of course it is likely to be unsound, just like the car that wasn't looked at will have an issue, I would be frank and tell them it doesn't feel right and hope that they have a fund to use for vets bills or pts if it comes to that, did your friend not seek advice from anyone before spending their savings on what may be a total disaster financially, did they do no research on how to buy "safely" not that any purchase is totally safe but some are less risky than others, an online auction at the bottom end of the market must be about the highest risk going.

My only sympathy is with the poor horse I am afraid.
 
I don't think buying a horse unseen off Facebook was the best way to spend his hard earned money but anyway..
You've just got to tell him straight and get a vet to give the horse a thorough check just in case theres something else lurking too. The no returns clause makes alarm bells ring to me. Beating around the bush prolongs any issues, makes it worse and potentially leaves the horse in pain.
 
If you're worried about your friend taking it as criticism of the buying, just say the horse doesn't look quite right and you wonder if he's had a knock since he got here and needs to be seen by a vet. But you do need to say sonething - a bad situation is only going to get worse.
 
I bet I know where it came from I have seen a certain person doing these Facebook auctions with horses before, and if it was from who I think it is I wouldn't be surprised if it's lame.

can you not get someone on your yard that can see lameness properly have a good look at the horse and go from there, if it is lame you need to get a vet I just hope for the horses sake it's not too serious poor horse.
 
Depending on how the horse was advertised on FB, a note saying not returnable under any circumstances does not mean your friend does not have rights. If it was sold as a riding horse it should not be lame but you'd probably have to make a claim through the small claims court. I'm assuming your friend didn't pay much for it? I'm sorry for your friend. it was a pretty daft thing to do but if there is a problem with the horse it's sad for both horse and owner.
 
It may be nothing more than nail bind, if it was newly shod.

However, tell your friends of your concerns and encourage them to get the vet out for a post purchase vetting. At least he'll know what he's bought then.

He, obviously, needs the saddle assessed.
 
Probably but hopefully it's just nail bind or something easily fixable...
A friend bought a horse unseen off facebook about a amonth ago. Horse turned up snotty as hell and the seller was trying to convince her not to get the vet in. Luckily she did as pony ended up on medication for 2wks and is still isolated.
 
From the stories I've heard of Facebook auction sites I'd be extremely grateful that the horse is rideable and safe (I assume it is as you've not mentioned otherwise!)
I'd not worry about mentioning what you think, it's not offensive. If he had been and viewed and thought it a good buy I can see you may feel a bit bad about "disagreeing" but as it was unseen I don't see a problem with just saying.
Agree it could perhaps be due to shoeing with luck!
In which case he was incredibly lucky things didn't go really wrong!
 
If the person is selling horses plural online, this is a dealer. Therefore whatever they claim about no returns doesn't apply and your friend could return the horse under the sale of goods act. The trouble is it is very easy to get attached...
 
Can any legal bod advise - if the horse was sold completely unwarranted by auction, does the Sale of Goods act apply? I doubt it, but would be happy to be corrected.

Shame on Facebook for allowing auction of live animals :(

Shame on the seller for selling a horse this way :(

Shame the buyer didn't have more sense or better advice :(

Of course it's lame!
 
poiuytrewq said:
This may be judgemental of me but I don't think the kind of seller that auctions their horse off on Facebook is the sort of person who gives a *****
Click to expand...

I sold my horse via the Facebook auction group. The group has 43,000 members so functions as an effective market place. For me, it was useful to get my horse advertised to a wide audience.
It's no different to buying any horse unseen; not for the novice or the faint hearted.
 
I cannot imagine under any circumstances selling a horse unseen on FB. I would rather shoot the poor buggar. Ebay doesn't allow it, why does FB consider it acceptable?
 
Most horse adverts these days seem to be on Facebook. The woman who bought my horse was exactly what he needed; runs her own livery yard, events up to Intermediate level. I needed the horse gone quickly and being able to quickly advertise to 43,000 people enabled that.
It was either that or he was going to Melton auction the following week. I'd offered him back to the person I bought him from. She declined, so he went on the auction group. Sometimes life changes, and a quick sale is needed. For me, the auction group was a way to facilitate this.
 
ycbm said:
Can any legal bod advise - if the horse was sold completely unwarranted by auction, does the Sale of Goods act apply? I doubt it, but would be happy to be corrected.

Shame on Facebook for allowing auction of live animals :(

Shame on the seller for selling a horse this way :(

Shame the buyer didn't have more sense or better advice :(

Of course it's lame!
Click to expand...

Yes, this. I find it hard to believe this happens, that people actually buy and sell living, breathing, feeling animals like this, what a world we live in
 
Schollym said:
http://www.equinelawuk.co.uk/news.asp?NewsID=25
This is a link to an equine law page with this exact point. I think the main problem will be gathering the evidence to prove the vendor is a dealer, I am sure the online community could support with the relevant evidence.
Click to expand...


That site says that it doesn't matter if the vendor is a dealer or not, if the horse is sold unwarranted at auction, the buyer has no comeback.

I've sold unseen and I've bought unseen and this doesn't feel like the same thing at all to me. I can't imagine ever selling a horse of mine unseen via an online auction.
 
The Sale of Goods Act 1979 can be relied upon where there are no explicit terms. The main provision of the act are that goods should be of ‘satisfactory quality’ and ‘fit for their purpose’ which is where the requirements of a business sale comes in.

If someone is acting in the course of a business with a view to making a profit or a history of a course of dealings can be shown then section 14 of the act which relates to implied terms about quality of fitness will apply to the sale. The sellers multiple adverts are good evidence of a course of dealing.

They stay in business because no one actually takes any concrete action against them. So they've spent the money, so what, small claims court costs very little to institute proceedings. When you win & get a judgement move the judgement on to the High Court Sherriffs for them to enforce the order. They will either get cash or seize goods to the value of the debt. This service does not cost a vast amount & they do get results. To many people believe what the sellers say about spending the money & haven't got any money to repay. They lied when they sold the horse & they are probably lying now! Get the court judgement & then let loose the sherriffs & go for the jugular!
Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...gue-Dealers-Staffs-Derbys#s8w4tS5pOxxcOiDo.99


Consumer Rights Act 1 October 2015
Covers all goods including horses, livery yards, riding lessons and horsebox repairs.
Buyers have the right to a 30 day refund for faulty, not as described (always keep advert) or not fit for purpose goods bought from a business such as dealers.
Even after 30 days have passed the buyer can still be entitled to a refund - full if under 6 months, or partial if over 6 months but must allow the trader to repair or replace the item first.
However if you buy privately this does not apply.
Under the new ruling those who do not apply 'reasonable care' as agreed with the consumer will have to put things right such as redo the job or give some money back.

Under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 the supplier has a responsibility to supply goods that are of satisfactory quality, being free of inherent defects, durable and fit for purpose.
Services should be provided with reasonable care and skill and that any goods should be of satisfactory quality.

Letter before action www.which.co.uk/legal

Under the Unfair Contract Tems Act 1977, the supplier can’t exclude their responsibility under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Your rights under the Act require the to provide goods that are of satisfactory quality.
When goods have an inherent defect, abd you’re not in a position to reject them within a reasonable time, you can insist that the seller provides a remedy, repair or replacement. They should do this within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to you. Any warranty is in addition to your statutory rights, not instead of them. If you have to issue legal proceedings, you have up to six years to do so in England and Wales, five in Scotland.
 
Everyody is assuming this horse is lame! It dint show up lame when lunged on a circle, when most lamenesses show. It is a feel from the OP. Racehorses (and hunters) are very often only ridden on one diagonal- the comfy one! They can feel very strange on the other one. It only showed up after the horse was shod. It could be just one of the nails is binding, TBs have notoriously thin soles. It could be the different tack.
I wouldnt upset your friend just yet, I would wait a week and see how he goes. he may get worse or he may get better, or he might-just might- be perfectly fine.
I would suggest he gets his backed checked out by a good practitiioner.
 
You have to admit that the timing is spot on for bute withdrawal though? The OP actually said the horse felt wrong on one diagonal and more wrong on the other, and the lunging was two days earlier.

Sold the way it has been sold, with a receipt saying what it said, I've still got an edible hat and a considerable amount of dosh up for the betting that it's lame.

For the sake of the horse and owner I hope you are right, though.

PS a back can only be properly checked with x rays.
 
Last edited:
I don't think anyone on here can say if the horse is lame, as we haven't seen or ridden it. But as you're more experienced than your friend and you think there may be a problem I think you should say that it doesn't feel quite right to you and if the horse were yours, you'd get the vet to take a look. Then you've done your bit and it's up to your friend.
 
Echo all of the above, but hopefully just something straightforward as AmyMay says.

I sold a horse last year having shod him that morning at the request of the new owner. Eight hours later I had a phone call demanding I return to collect the horse (having delivered it) as it was hopping lame and not fit for purpose (someone on the yard had done some digging and been told that the horse had broken down on the racetrack which is why it was sold as a riding horse - not true). There were also white dots on the horse's hind leg (not the leg she was claiming he was lame on), which she had been advised by her YO were due to nerve blocks and I was trying to cover up lameness at the back as well (the horse was pin-fired in his youth before I ever set eyes on him).

I paid for my farrier to go out to take the shoe off on the lame leg (as nobody at the yard, including the YO, was able to do that) and give a professional assessment of all hooves and legs, and then offered to pay for the new owner's vet to visit. Turns out his one hoof had been cut back a little tight and he was being a total drama queen. He had been 100% sound when they visited him 4 days earlier and tried him out, and was sound that morning before and immediately after being shod, and when I unloaded him at the new yard. Took him 10 days to get over it properly because he was a sap. Over 12 months later and they're all getting on like a house on fire.

Oh, and there are better places to buy horses than online auctions on Facebook. That's almost as bad as these raffles for horses I keep seeing...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top