Is my horse autistic?

[Izzwall]

Hi all, it's taken me a few weeks to pump up the courage and post on here so please be nice I've owned my horse Rambo for over two years now and he's always been a little bit 'special'. I got him from an auction as a three year old where he was going to go for meat and came off Bodmin moor, he's appaloosa X but not quite sure what he's crossed with. He was very headshy and flinched quite a lot, he also had zero trust in people as I don't think he was handled. Well, I let him just mingle in the field with my other two horses at home and gradually gained his trust. He used to do a few odd things but nothing that worried me, he was always known as the 'thick one'

Well anyway, as he was approaching 5 years old I thought its about time he was broken in and moved him to a livery yard with better facilities. As I was spending some one on one time with him I started to notice that he wasn't like any horse I have ever owned. The main thing first is that every single horse at the yard hates him, most violently launch themselves at him in their stables when he walks past, he has to be on his own in the field or else he gets kicked. The most peculiar thing is, is that he doesn't notice the other horses are doing this! There's been times when he's been tied outside his stable and the horse next to him has her teeth baring and ears back etc and there's no reaction from him, not even an ear twitch. When on occasion another horse lets him near he invades their personal space and repeatedly pokes them in the face with his nose.
Another thing I've noticed is that he always knocks himself, he bumps his face on his stable door every morning, I'm always finding cuts on him and when he does have a scrap on his leg or something he chews it open. Sometimes when I tie him up outside his stable it's as if the lights are on but nobodies home. Infact there was this one time a few months ago when he was tied outside his stable with a hay net, went to go untie him to put him out and there was just nothing in his eyes, I tried clapping, poking him, making loud noises but he just stood there, then about 5-10 mins he came round and was normal again. That really scared me and I got the vet round to do some checks, especially his eyes as he tilts his head sideways identically to a blind horse I look after. Everything came back normal though. So I started breaking him in. At first he was a quick learner, taking everything at his pace then he just went into complete melt down! It has taken him 5 months to accept a rider on board whilst trotting, and he has so far broke my elbow by spooking at a person in their car.
He is over sensitive and reacts, sometimes violently, to strange sounds, different colours. Last week he was munching on his haynet outside his stable and somebody wanted to go past with their horse. I asked him to move over where he completely blanked me and I proceeded to get louder and louder with my asks till he got a small slap (more of a gently pat) on the belly to move over and he threw himself onto the floor! And now for the past few days if he comes across something that frightens him he tries to do the same.
My farrier has been ill lately so I got a yard friend's farrier to do him and the moment he saw Rambo he instantly said that he looks like he has autism. Can horses get autism? Or do you think that there's something serious going on with him? I have to say though he is the most sweetest, cuddliest and kind horse I have ever owned. When I broke my elbow he instantly picked up something wasn't right and looked after me. I've recently broken my ribs and he's just being so gentle and going at whatever pace I go.
White chocolate fingers for who ever got this far! The painkillers will be kicking in soon

Here's a little piccie of him. His eyes go outwards and looks bug eyed, it's quite funny

Hopefully that's worked!

 

[cheeryplatypus]

I don't think he will be autistic but it sounds like he has learnt to shut down .
He probably tries to lock things out but there will be a point when it gets too much and he flips.
It also sounds like he doesn't see you as higher up the pecking order, which will make it harder for him as he probably needs you to take the lead.
I'd personally leave backing him for now and build on lots of ground work to get him to engage, it may help him when he interacts with the other horses too. If he's also bottom of their pecking order, which it sounds like he may be, it won't help his confidence. Has he any horsey friends, what's he like turned out?

 

[Boxers]

Wow, that was a long one, thanks for the choccy fingers.

I don't know if a horse could be autistic, perhaps he has some brain damage? Perhaps caused when he was a youngster before you got him, hence the head shyness.

Goodness knows how you would test for autism, and you have had s sight checked. Can he hear ok do you think?

I really don't have an answer but it certainly is intriguing.

 

[Izzwall]

He follows me everywhere like a little lost dog. When ever he's unsure he always looks at me asking for help. He goes through little phases when being led to the field, 90% of time he is a perfect gentleman but if you let him get away with even a shoulder into your space or a shake of the head he'll take a mile and I find if someone else brings him in he really plays up and it takes a few ground work sessions to get him how he was. He's my 5th project horse and I've had a few that have come to me in complete mental shut down but Rambo behaves so differently compared to how they have reacted. Most of the time he looks rather happy and bubbly. Groundwork is what I specialise in and we do it pretty much every day as it's pretty easy stuff for him and he loves to please.

 

[posie_honey]

oooh now there is a symdrome - i'll try to find the article about it...
*wonders off to google*

found it

http://www.happy-horse-training.com/dummy-foal.html

 

[Clodagh]

I don't know about autism in horses but dummy foals can be a bit dim and special. My vet likens it to them being 'slow' or 'backward' and if they were humans they would be very dim. She said as we don't tend to expect horses to win chess tournaments they cope OK!
Apparently eyelashes pointing down can be a sign of brain damage, I can't see if yours does.
My now 2 year old was a bit of a slow boy when he was born, he was huge and got stuck, but he gets brighter all the time. when he was very young he wasn't very quick to learn things but he is a lovely easy boy to do. Now he is 2 he has really caught up I think.

 

[Izzwall]

oooh now there is a symdrome - i'll try to find the article about it...
*wonders off to google*

found it

http://www.happy-horse-training.com/dummy-foal.html

Just read that article and whoa! When it describes Xas growing up it's like reading a description of Rambo! Apart from other horses accepting him. The only horse to ever accept him was when he was living at mine with my filly. She is a very smart cookie and it always looked like she was looking after him, wouldn't let him out of her sight and when the other horses picked on him she was always defending him.

 

[Elsiecat]

I have no idea but I found this interesting to read and will be interested in the answers

 

[Irishdan]

Do you think he could have an eyesight problem?? Perhaps be worth having a word with your Vet. Sorry you have had so many problems with him - he looks v sweet in the pic.

I own a TB mare who I am certain is bit 'special', and I keep thinking autism. Gets on ok with other horses but there are deffo times when she seems totally out of it - a real dreamer!! She is by the same stallion as the horse in the dummy foal article, which makes me all the more suspect:/

 

[Love]

Have you had his hearing and eyesight checked? He reacts as though the stimuli have suddenly just snuck up on him if that makes sense? I think my old pony may have been partially blind, he used to spook at things but right at the very last minute, eg drains in the road but when we were nearly passed them, etc.

Ps he is beautiful!!

 

[lizzypeg]

We have a mini Shetland rescue who we are convinced is autistic or a bit slow as he also had odd moments when we will find he staring into space or at a fence post for a good ten minutes before he snaps out of it. He is a lovely, quiet well mannered pony just doesn't seem all there all of the time, having said that he is adorable so we wouldn't change him for all the money in the world

 

[Izzwall]

I've had his eye sight checked as I was worried about the head tilting and the amount of times he banged himself and both his eyes are fine and healthy. I'm glad I'm not the only one with a 'special needs' horse, his new craze at the moment is splashing through puddles, licking tractors and annoying the horse next door who can't stand the look of him by standing just about far enough where she can't reach to get him.
He also has an unhealthy obsession with children, I think he's confused by them If he does have Dummy Foal Syndrome then it would explain my struggle in his ridden work! There's some days I give up hope especially when it feels like he's forgotten everything and then there are some when I'm left gobsmacked particularly the other day when he cantered for the first time with a rider and didn't have an explosion! My aim is to hack out by the new year, he had his backing started in May

Rambo always stares at the trees/sky, it's quite funny to watch!

 

[ABC]

Nothing to add, but he is gorgeous!

 

[Oberon]

I do remember something about an Appy gene that causes neuro problems but cant remember the name.

 

[Holly Hocks]

I do remember something about an Appy gene that causes neuro problems but cant remember the name.

I was just about to post the same thing, but I can't remember where I read it or what it's called.

I also knew a horse which had it's eyes set too far on the front of it's head (your's doesn't have by the way!) and it had a problem with it's vision - not that it couldn't see, but it didn't have the same peripheral vision that other horses had. It was a very difficult horse...

 

[Izzwall]

I do remember something about an Appy gene that causes neuro problems but cant remember the name.

Ah, I just looked up neuro problems in horses, are you thinking of equine herpesvirus type 1 (EHV-1)?

I'm not sure he has a neuro problem, would it affect his gait? Because he has the most stunning paces I have ever seen and when you get him to lengthen in trot he really stretches and flicks his heels.

 

[Carefreegirl]

Nothing helpful to add other than what an interesting case and I suppose tractor licking is the next step up from window licking

He's bit of dude and his 'speshall needs' just add to his specialness

 

[POLLDARK]

It's possible he had a difficult birth & was perhaps starved of oxygen, potentially making him a bit 'odd' & dim. but physivally fine.

 

[mynutmeg]

Sometimes when I tie him up outside his stable it's as if the lights are on but nobodies home. Infact there was this one time a few months ago when he was tied outside his stable with a hay net, went to go untie him to put him out and there was just nothing in his eyes, I tried clapping, poking him, making loud noises but he just stood there, then about 5-10 mins he came round and was normal again.

This makes me wonder if he's having simple partial seizures - you can get a type of absence seizure where there's none of the limb shaking you get in typical, it's simply as tho they've gone away, then come round.

Dummy foal syndrome is often caused by a lack of oxygen to the brain at birth which could easily cause brain damage causing seizures. It can also cause the clumsiness that he shows, probably caused by a lack of spatial awareness which also explains the personal space thing.
If this is what is going on then because he doens't behave like a normal horse the other horses will reject him.

I would also consider whether his hearing and sight are affected - this can be neurological rather than structural (ie brain rather than eye) so on exam would appear normal aside from reduced vision and reduced hearing. This would explain why he doesn't respond to stimulus until it's large and then jumps because it's a large stimulus.

I think that he is definately a special boy, he sounds like he will never be a 'normal' horse and will need careful training and handling. Take him at his speed and see where you get to with him.

 

[Izzwall]

I remember when he was tied up in the barn, I went to do something quickly, he managed to untie himself, go up to the outdoor school, walked around a bit, came out and then ground tied himself.

All in all he is a very difficult horse as you got to be so careful but at the same time set the boundaries and if he's having a bad day and he just can't figure out that I just want him to step out his right leg, and out of frustration he rears up, jumps in the air and then bombs off.

But he's a challenge I'm very willing to tackle Best thing is he sleeps a ridiculously amount and tends to be completely k-owed between about 11pm till 9am so I get a bit of a lay in

 

[mynutmeg]

Ah, I just looked up neuro problems in horses, are you thinking of equine herpesvirus type 1 (EHV-1)?

I'm not sure he has a neuro problem, would it affect his gait? Because he has the most stunning paces I have ever seen and when you get him to lengthen in trot he really stretches and flicks his heels.

Neurological issues will affect different things depending on where the damage is so he may have sensorary deficits without any motor skill damage.

 

[Izzwall]

Do you think it'll get worse the older he gets? Thankfully if he's having these seizures they aren't very often. Usually when something catches his attention he snaps out of it.
He's also on mag ox and I find without it, every day is a bad day but whilst he's on it he only gets a bad day once, maybe twice a week.
He can't seem to think outside the box either. When he was at mine he was sharing a little electrified pen in my field with my filly, we had a lot of rain and it turned into a mud pit so I opened the fence so they could use the whole field. My filly instantly worked it out and was gone and I left Rambo to figure it out. I came back the next morning and he's still there! Not moved, with his head hanging low and miserable. In the end I had to catch him and show him how to get out.

He responds to noises well and reacts to them, like he can hear my whistle at the top of the field (which isn't very loud as I can't whistle very well!) and he responds to foot steps etc.

I've always thought it might be something to do with his sight. Though he eyed up the shavings on the muck heap the other week, could he still have eye sight problems if he picks up different colours and shades, he spooks at his own shadow in the school and snorts at it.

 

[Blythe Spirit]

how interesting. I read this because a close fried of mine about 15 years ago had a horse we used to say was Autistic. he was a Hackney Cross, and displayed a lot of the same symptoms as you describe. Sometimes he was amazingly docile, absent as you say - but other times he would over react. I have seen him become fixated on an airplane flying at a normal height (Not something most horses would even notice. He was bothered by new head collars or hay nets that were not his usual ones. My friend kept him for many years although he was never reliable to ride - he was broken in and all but every once in a while he would just freak out and throw you. i have no idea if it is possible for a horse to be autistic - but he reminded me of Chippy who we always said was.

 

[Lexie81]

Wow that's is interesting! I work with autistic kids as my job and have often wondered if horses or other animals are affected by it. He sounds very unique and very lucky to have found you who understands him. He is a very handsome boy I can see why you love him!

 

[mynutmeg]

Do you think it'll get worse the older he gets? Thankfully if he's having these seizures they aren't very often. Usually when something catches his attention he snaps out of it.
He's also on mag ox and I find without it, every day is a bad day but whilst he's on it he only gets a bad day once, maybe twice a week.
He can't seem to think outside the box either. When he was at mine he was sharing a little electrified pen in my field with my filly, we had a lot of rain and it turned into a mud pit so I opened the fence so they could use the whole field. My filly instantly worked it out and was gone and I left Rambo to figure it out. I came back the next morning and he's still there! Not moved, with his head hanging low and miserable. In the end I had to catch him and show him how to get out.

He responds to noises well and reacts to them, like he can hear my whistle at the top of the field (which isn't very loud as I can't whistle very well!) and he responds to foot steps etc.

I've always thought it might be something to do with his sight. Though he eyed up the shavings on the muck heap the other week, could he still have eye sight problems if he picks up different colours and shades, he spooks at his own shadow in the school and snorts at it.

Given he's 5 now if he hasn't changed much in the 2 years you've had him then, IF it's seizure's he's having they are unlikely to get worse, also if it is neurological damage causing seizures then the cause of the damage seems to have been in early life so the damage is done and stable rather than progressive.

Sight wise it's possible he can only see large objects, big movements or big areas of different colour so he has some sight but can't see detail or small things.

It sounds like he's lucky to have found you to care for him and my approach would be to deal with his behaviour as it shows and work with what he gives you

 

[Izzwall]

I have hope for him, he has such amazing talent and has a lovely temperament, all he wants to be is your friend and now that I've gained his trust I can see that glimmer of love in his eyes when he sees me, it makes me feel that I don't want to give up on him. My family are constantly telling me to get rid of him as he's on an expensive livery which means I'm scrapping by, and that I'm the only one on my yard that doesn't ride their horse out and about etc. But it breaks my heart to even think of it! Especially as I know that in the wrong hands he can turn into a very dangerous horse.
Like my yard manager said that I need to work him properly with side reins ect but I think any gadget will completely fry his brain as he can't focus very well on two things at the same time.

Regarding the sight problems, would it explain why he's petrified of cars that come out of no where or when they pass by too fast? He's fine with tractors, slow moving cars and cars going away from him.

 

[Sarah W]

Apologies if it's been covered on the thread and I've missed it but have you had a vet to check him over? Surely that's the first port of call when you suspect vision and/or neurological problems?

 

[YasandCrystal]

He looks like a dude - lovely He's just different isn't he! He could be shutting down a bit like someone suggested - he sounds a real character.

He doesn't have a 'double whorl on his neck' does he? My WB does and he has been described as almost autistic by a few people. He can overreact big time and is an extremely demonstrative horse. If he wants attention he blocks you with his body offering up the part he wants petted and then the other side He is very cheeky.

 

[weebarney]

Ahh bless him, he looks a sweety. I'm sure you will find something that he is fantastic at doing, his niche, like how some special people have superhuman memories or skills.

 

[Izzwall]

He has had a vet check as I was getting worried, everything came back normal and my vet just said that he is just a bit thick

He has two whirls on his forehead. One between his eyes and one a little further up. I'm not sure if he's shutting down, he loves his training sessions as they're short and fun (his attention span is around 1 minute, half that time on a bad day).

I think he's lonely which is why I think he's bonded so closely to me as he doesn't interact with anyone very often apart from the horse opposite when they are both tied up outside their stable, and even then eventually I have to remove him as the other horse gets fed up of being pocked constantly and having a bum shoved in their face asking for a bum scratch!
I try and spend as much time as I can with him so he gets some interaction, the only horse to ever accept Rambo is my filly. The even sadder thing is that when I'm running late and he's the last one out he doesn't even realise the other horses have come in! As we go up the path he looks at all the empty fields and starts playing up as he comes to terms he was the only one out.

I think once I discover his hidden talent he'll really progress as he loves getting things right. He's really good at being ground tied!