is my horse upset??

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amerron rosina

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hi guys,

I've had my daisy 7 years old who is the daughter of my old girl Ella now for 3 months, when she first came to me she hadn't been touched by the human hands she has been left in a field to have babies all her life:( since I've had her I've been able to groom her with great difficulty rug her up and we have even backed her!! she's had her slipper hoofs clipped under sedation!!! but this last few weeks she's turned really nasty!! now I'm not into smacking animals full stop I have a girl who does the riding side to her and she can be pretty forceful!! I've noticed that daisy has gone very head shy and won't let me go in her stable anymore!! she looks terrified when I go near her, I have to really sweet talk her to let me put a head coller on her! today I went into her stable and she turned on me and kicked out, do you think that maybe daisy in being smacked or something like that to change the way she has done?? her mum Ella is in the stable op her who has just recently been in hospital for a week to have her eye removed. I just can figure out why she has changed please any one help!!!

many thanks

deni :)
 
Sounds as if you could do with some on-site help. You could maybe post where you are and people might be able to recommend someone. You'll probably get all sorts of advice here from the "fluffy" to various dominance theories, but personally I think this could turn dangerous if you don't get it right.
 
Tinypony said:
Sounds as if you could do with some on-site help. You could maybe post where you are and people might be able to recommend someone. You'll probably get all sorts of advice here from the "fluffy" to various dominance theories, but personally I think this could turn dangerous if you don't get it right.
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I'll agree with that but I'd just like to get you to re-read your post, think about all the things that this horse has learnt, consider "normal" timescales for a handled horse, let alone an unhandled horse, to understand and take in all these new things and then relate that back to your horse.

She's been pushed very, very hard IMHO.
 
hi

Thank you for your reply I'm so worried that she is going to hurt someone, she was very loving surprisingly but since she's starting being ridden she's gone very naughty, I have found Liz screaming at her and shouting at her!! which if she's being very naughty were it's putting Liz safety at risk I understand but daisy seems frightened to death! I have never had to shout at my Ella she is a pure lady I'm the softy softy one of the yard. :)
 
In that case I'd take this opportunity to tell the rider that Daisy has come on so well you are giving her until the spring off from any form of ridden work in order to assimilate what she has learned. Then you use that time to settle Daisy back down again, be quiet with her, do nice gentle things with her and get her back to her loving self. Then see if you can find a quiet gentle rider to effectively reback her and bring her on.

We've found that giving a newly broken and ridden away horse a good long break to sort it all out in their head works very well.
 
From working with a natural horseman I've learnt that there is no benefit to screaming, shouting raised voices or aggression. It's simply about balance. Making the wrong behaviour difficult or unrewarding and the right behaviour reinforced with positive feedback.

When working with your horse you should remove all emotion, simply say what you need to say with your actions and handling. To quote what I was told, "do as little as possible but as much as is necessary" to correct and reward behaviour.

There are no such things a problem horses, every vice has been taught to it by humans who have done nothing to correct the horse or teach it the correct way and in not doing so we have contributed to the problem.
 
Well, now you've given a bit more info... ditch Liz tomorrow. If she's going to behave like that in front of you, what's going on when you're not there to see? Is your horse "naughty" or scared? If I found anyone screaming and shouting at my horses they'd be gone immediately. I think you've put your trust in the wrong person.
 
amerron rosina said:
hi

Thank you for your reply I'm so worried that she is going to hurt someone, she was very loving surprisingly but since she's starting being ridden she's gone very naughty, I have found Liz screaming at her and shouting at her!! which if she's being very naughty were it's putting Liz safety at risk I understand but daisy seems frightened to death! I have never had to shout at my Ella she is a pure lady I'm the softy softy one of the yard. :)
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and can I ask why you did not you smack Liz with a snow shovel at this point?.... sorry being flippant then.....no way would i be engaging the services of an egit like this... there is no need to scream at any animal.... all you teach is fear - which she appears to have done remarkably well.

Agree with Hic - tell her your giving the horse some time out to think about what she has learnt and find some one else !
 
Tinypony said:
Well, now you've given a bit more info... ditch Liz tomorrow. If she's going to behave like that in front of you, what's going on when you're not there to see? Is your horse "naughty" or scared? If I found anyone screaming and shouting at my horses they'd be gone immediately. I think you've put your trust in the wrong person.
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Agree with this.
But *hic* is also right that giving Daisy some time off to assimilate all the things that you have done with her would be a good idea.
 
Liz = get rid, urgently! Sounds like a positive correlation between her behaviour and poor Daisy's behaviour. Give Daisy a break to help her settle down and move on mentally, before starting again from scratch as if you've just got her all over again. It sounds to me like Daisy has been through a pretty tough time and is letting you know in he only way she knows how.
 
hi hic

Thank you so much for that, I bought daisy for Ella so she could have her baby girl back in her life. I've been through hell and back this last month with Ella losing her eye, I know it sounds daft but I wonder if she knew mum was poorly and has been playing up with that?? all I want is my beautiful girls to be happy and daisy does not seem happy at the min which is upsetting :(
 
Forget the issue of her mum's eye. I'd put money on this being a handling problem, although you'll never really know. I'd suggest trying to divorce yourself from your human emotions on this and try just looking at the horse in front of you. Does "fear aggressive" ring any bells.
Yes, she needs a break. Yes you need to make sure that Liz never handles her again, regardless of what excuses you want to make. I'd still suggest getting someone good to look at what's going on. Google Pendle Equestrian and see if Jen can suggest anyone or can help.
 
I honestly think the best thing you could do for Ella and Daisy is to make sure Daisy doesn't have to deal with Liz ever again! Then just be gentle with her and teach her all over again that she wants to be around people:)
 
hi

Thanks guys I will take your advice and give her a rest, she has done so much in the short space of time bless her! she has come on so much since she came to me,I'm very proud of her! she looks a different horse and she's so close to Ella.

thank you again guys

xxx
 
Liz is probably scared of the pony. IMO shouting at an animal is a real sign of human insecurity (unless its my blinking lurcher vanishing over the horizon!).
Horses don't do shouting at each other and really don't get what it means. You need to get them apart now, she will ruin your pony.
 
Whats is happening to the horse in the stable after being ridden, ditch the rider asap, give her until spring time to be off and then slowly start again, it wont take long cos you have done all the basics already, but be gone with dear liz, probably squeezing her ears, or whipping her and getting her in the corner of the box.
 
hi guys

I've spent the day with daisy today I've just walked her, groomed her and gave her lots of tlc and she's been great with me no pulling faces or turning her back on me, she's been great!! Im going to give her a rest for a few weeks and let her settle down and have 1 to 1 time with me and Ella and see how she goes, thank you everyone for your advice you were right. :)

Deni xx
 
Agree with other that Liz doesn't sound the right person for your horse.
You've been gentle and patient and Liz's approach sounds very different from yours.

I think I'd be speaking to Liz and saying that her methods of handling/riding don't seem to match your ways and they certainly don't suit Daisy. Maybe she's not really used to handling a youngster and is a little out of her depth?
 
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