Is my livery yard owner negligent

martlin said:
No, I haven't stood next to one with or without a 3 year old - I imagine I would get soaking wet.
ETS: I also try to avoid standing around in fields when it's raining - fair weather creature that I am.
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PATHETIC i dont know why i bothered i thought i may get an inteeligent response but clearly not get back to doing your homework
 
Nobody is blaming you, I don't think it's anybody's fault, just an unfortunate set of circumstances, that's all.
I feel sorry for you, but still can't see how anybody could be found negligent in this case.
There is no point in getting annoyed with us...
 
sam081978 said:
So its only 5 feet from your horse and as quiet as rain!
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So your paddock is only 5' by 5'?

I take it that it wasn't the sprayer incident that rendered your horse unridable, but the turning out of horses in the paddock next to yours? If that was to be classed as negligent then there would not be a single YO in business. And no, I am not a YO myself.
 
martlin said:
Nobody is blaming you, I don't think it's anybody's fault, just an unfortunate set of circumstances, that's all.
I feel sorry for you, but still can't see how anybody could be found negligent in this case.
There is no point in getting annoyed with us...
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well dont try and be funny then
 
marmalade76 said:
So your paddock is only 5' by 5'?

I take it that it wasn't the sprayer incident that rendered your horse unridable, but the turning out of horses in the paddock next to yours? If that was to be classed as negligent then there would not be a single YO in business. And no, I am not a YO myself.
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my horse was on restricted grazing by the school as she was overweight
 
sam081978 said:
well dont try and be funny then
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I'm rapidy loosing sympathy here!

You say you aren't looking for someone to blame, and yet you post asking if your YO is negligent and when everyone says legally no, you then get the hump and spit the dummy.

Trust me I would be royally p*ssed off if it was my horse, but my rational head would also say accidents happen. At the end of the day the sprayer incident resulted in a broken rib, which while not nice isn't the end of the world. The second incident was the nasty one but that was caused by turning a horse out (.....). Sometimes you just have to accept that s*it happens.

Speak to your insurers legal team who should hopefully be able to put your mind at rest
 
QR - Not read other replies.

Sorry to hear about your horse and no, I don't think your YO is negligent.

Horses are going to come across things all the time that maybe spook or unsettle them, I don't think hiding them away from those stimuli do them any good.

As for those irrigation things, we used to have one that went across a bridleway, my pony used to love zipping through the water and the clicking noise made him go even faster. It was ace :D .....but we didn't come to any harm. I guess I may feel differently if we had.

I hope your mare recovers.
 
ihatework said:
I'm rapidy loosing sympathy here!

You say you aren't looking for someone to blame, and yet you post asking if your YO is negligent and when everyone says legally no, you then get the hump and spit the dummy.

Trust me I would be royally p*ssed off if it was my horse, but my rational head would also say accidents happen. At the end of the day the sprayer incident resulted in a broken rib, which while not nice isn't the end of the world. The second incident was the nasty one but that was caused by turning a horse out (.....). Sometimes you just have to accept that s*it happens.

Speak to your insurers legal team who should hopefully be able to put your mind at rest
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well if people didnt take the piss out of a bad situation then maybe i wouldnt be pissed off. Not once have i said i wanted to sue it was a bhs instructor that said i should find out more and frankly this has done nothing but make me feel like ****. I shant bother asking again
 
This is getting a bit silly having read all the posts so far have you at any point had a quiet word with your YO about your concerns. If not you should as YO probably didn't think your horse would be disturbed by their actions. Move yards and try and put it behind you (might not be easy but try). If you still feel the need to claim negligence then talk to the appropriate people.

I probably don't give the best advice going though :)
 
Anyone like to share my popcorn and tinfoil hat? :D

OP, everyone has expressed thier sympathy for your horse and situation. You asked for our opinions on if we think your yard owner was negligent, that is what you got. If you think we are wrong Galaxy has already pointed tyou in the direction of legal advice. take it or leave it, but there is no need to be offensive.
 
At risk of getting into a fight, why on earth do you assume that I have had it handed to me on a plate because I am not telling you what you want to hear?

FYI, u this past year, I had never ever spent more than £1000 on a horse. My yard, before I had it, was run by gypsies with a rubbish collecting issue. Everything I have is worked hard for – I work full time and run my yard on top with one over worked member of part time staff.

I have had horses break my heart, my youngster being one of them constantly as he is forever injured/unsound/raping other horses (oh yes, latest in a long line of issues is he might be a rig) but horses are horses and they are there to throw problems at us, but also there to give you your ultra proud moments – and just like the proud moments are given, so are the down points – and none of it is anyones fault!

Was your mare on restricted grazing with 1 other horse or on her own? I am confused...
 
OP - take proper legal advice from aa qualified lawyer who specialises in equine related claims. No point posting on a forum for a bunch of randoms who probably haven't had a days legal training to give you their opinion. The only person whose opinion counts is the lawyer who takes your case (or doesn't as the case may be) the organisation funding your case and the trial judge.

I am a lawyer and that is my considered advice.

Appologies if anyone else who has commented is legally qualified, no offence intended but I get really irritated with these threads.
 
Katt, in fairness, she did ask advice from us "bunch of randoms", some of which did tell her to phone BHS/insurance legal helpline.

:D
 
R2R said:
Katt, in fairness, she did ask advice from us "bunch of randoms", some of which did tell her to phone BHS/insurance legal helpline.

:D
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Not critisising people for answering, more the fact that people ask these questions in the first place ;)

The bit about phoning the BHS/insurance legal helpline was utterly sound advice.

It just amazes me that people ask for advice on specialist issues on a forum when you haven't got a clue what qualifications the other people have. The same with the medical questions.

As a lawyer I know what sort of variables and considerations there are in cases like this, they are tricky enough with all the facts in front of you, a legal training and access to the relevant case law and statute. They aren't something easily advised upon over a forum.

I might post and ask for some investment advice! :eek: Or maybe for an explanation of how to rewire my house! :eek:
 
I am actually surprised at the lack of sympathy in the replies. Clearly the OP is understandably distressed over what has happened to her horse. She has been advised, by a 3rd party (RI) to consider whether the actions of the YO were negligent.

I'm afraid that the opinions of people on this board as laymen really wont have much bearing on what a judge will decide. Most judges are non-horsey - they will simply apply the principles of the tort of negligence to the fact pattern i.e. would the reasonable person foresee that putting a non-standard watering system in the school which would spray water into a field with a horse in it etc could cause damage etc.

An argument could be formulated on these lines, but as Katt has already said, you really need to speak to a negligence lawyer. Just be prepared though, negligence claims are expensive and I dont think this case is of the type that a lawyer would take on a no- win no fee basis.

Also, you would only be compensated for the damage suffered - therefore market value of the horse before the accident and market value of the horse afterwards. This might be minimal, I am not sure how much can be attributed to her potential etc when working out market value.
 
Now, you see CBAnglo, you must have read the majority of the replies differently to me... I think pretty much everybody expressed sympathy and understanding of OP situation, the only unpleasant poster in this thread has been the OP her/himself... and he/she got what he/she asked for.
For what it's worth I believe that the best route to take is to seek professional legal advice on the matter , if the OP is inclined to pursue a negligence claim.
All the answers on the forum can be only taken as an opinion and are not in any way suggesting that they are legally correct:)
 
Ok, maybe I read into it that she got a bit defensive when people kept asking why she didnt move after the first incident which is understandable I think (I would have been kicking myself and wouldnt need people to ask why I didnt do something which I would have been constantly asking myself).
 
I am sorry to hear what happened to your horse - you must be feeling angry and upset.

An accident is defined as an unplanned, unforeseen, uncontrolable event, most of what we think of as accidents are actually incidents.

If you are wanting to sue then I would contact a legal professional if not then I would not waste your money but looking at moving on and doing what is best for you and your horses.

I think what you have described is an accident though as if your YO had thought that your horse would be so frightened by the water sprayer or wound up by the horses in the field next to hers that the horse would hurt herself so badly the YO would not have done what she did.

It is very difficult to run a yard where accidents could never happen as what might frighten one horse might not frighten another and the YO unless she knows the horses really well might not know what would trigger a response in individual horses. My pony who is not frighted of double deckers, red arrows, cannons blasting, civil war reenactments shied the other day as a bit of fence had been mended in one the field near the yard and a pole was there that was not there the last time we went past.
 
I also note that you have taken your horse to county shows - these are fairly busy places and was where my pony encountered the red arrows - your YO may have presumed that if you horse had been to county shows and done well she may have been used to strange horses near her and also perhaps large machinery or noisy things.
 
SO1 said:
I also note that you have taken your horse to county shows - these are fairly busy places and was where my pony encountered the red arrows - your YO may have presumed that if you horse had been to county shows and done well she may have been used to strange horses near her and also perhaps large machinery or noisy things.
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I think that's a big presumption to make. Mine has been to county shows where we have to persuade him to deal with heavy machinery and the like but if an unfamiliar piece of machinery were to be placed near his field he would completely lose it. I sympathise with the OP as not everyone is in a position to move yards every time something goes wrong (depending on how limited you are for yards in your area) and I would agree to seek out professional advice should you wish to pursue the issue further.
 
I keep my horses at home on our working dairy farm.

Personally, I introduce my horses to as many new and scary things as I can as you never know what they might meet out on hacks.

Our summer grazing borders the silage bunker. The horses are all living out when we silage so all experience the associated sights and sounds at close proximity.

We also top, harrow, bag muck fertilise, slurry spread etc the fields that are bordering my summer paddocks as and when necessary.

I've even left my horses in the field to watch us whilst we put up new fencing in their lower paddock using a JCB to drive the posts into the ground.

They've also had various new field mates arrive over the years and join their herd eventually.

All of this has happened without problem. Sometimes, with even the best will in the world, a horse just happens to be stressy and will over react to new things. We can't cocoon them into a life where they never have to accept or experience new sensations.

I certainly wouldn't say it's negligent to put new horses in a field next to your horse's field. That is surely part and parcel of life as a livery client?
 
agree with patches my horses are farm horses, whilst had to be very careful with my 5yr old and lambs as she would seriously stamp on them, tonight she has been turned out with month old lambs in big field as midges too strong in other field, she will have to get on with it other field had intercities hurtling past, but then she was in birmingham airport flight path before i had her, they have to learn to accept life.
 
I think the sprayer was a risk tbh and if it was my horse I would have wanted to be informed it was going to happen. But it would depend on how far away your horse could be. Most will move away from a sprayer if there is enough room.

I dont think i would have taken the risk of a livery's horse in the field next door unless it was a very big field. I would have spoken to the livery first.

But I cant stop the tractors or combines going by next door!

Putting a strange horse in a field next door is going to happen and there will always be a risk. But as a YO it is a risk you have to take. You can minimise risk by having a double line of fencing but i dont think you can stop horses next door from hoolying or jumping fences...

Having said that, if the horse was still recovering from an injury would I have put a strange horse next door if there was another option? Probably not, if i knew the mare could be a bit flighty. I would have been more careful. To me it is not about whether it is a livery or not, but the fact it is a horse with an injury and a certain type of personality. But I only have one or two liveries max. so it is very personal and i know the horses.

What i am trying to say is when you have liveries you should cross the t's and dot the i's!
 
I would think its certainly worth phoning bhs helpline. I would be gutted in your situation. At all the yards I've worked at I cant see the situations you've described being allowed to happen unless someone kept a close eye on the horse to see if they were affected. Seems like common sense to me.
 
Your insurance company would be the best people to speak to regarding negligence. If they feel there's a case to answer they will happily go after your YO.

Horses can do the most ridiculous things, in seamingly inoccuous situations. I can't see that your YO has done anything to be held accountable for. However, in todays compensation culture - you may well get what you're after.
 
amymay said:
However, in todays compensation culture - you may well get what you're after.
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I do presume a horse living in their back garden isn't what they were after?

Let's hope the OP manages to find alternative livery in her area, as she said livery was scarce there, before a civil case (if that's what she is planning) is brought against the YO.

You can rest assured notice being served would happen almost the second the legal paperwork fell through the letterbox.


I understand how the OP feels. When something has happened to our animals it is natural to look for blame.....even if no one is really culpable.

To the other poster who said nothing like this has ever happened at a yard they worked on...Are you saying that no new horses ever moved on? The YO didn't put them in the field with the OP's horse. They were over a fence to hers. I honestly and truly cannot see a problem with that. Sounds very responsible to me. When I initially read the post I thought the outcome was going to be that these horses were put in her field and had kicked her horse.

You cannot move to a livery yard and demand that no horses move in a field next to yours.....which I know the OP hasn't done...but by suggesting that it was negligent of the YO to do this also implies, somewhat retrospectively, that she is making that kind of bizarre demand.
 
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