Is neutering dogs a zero-sum game?

[skinnydipper]

Is neutering dogs a zero-sum game?

Is neutering dogs doing more harm than good? In this blog, vet and Oregon State University Full Professor Dr Michelle Kutzler looks at the negative effects of neutering and what it means for vets and pet owners.

www.bva.co.uk

 

[JBM]

Yeah none of ours are neutered
We just keep them separate when wolfie is in heat

 

[HopOnTrot]

1. Not neutering relies on responsible pet owners
2. It states that the majority are fine neutered and the majority are fine not neutered.

So I don’t think we need to change anything. Owners should have the option to choose what they want to do with their pet that suits their lifestyle.

 

[Clodagh]

1. Not neutering relies on responsible pet owners
2. It states that the majority are fine neutered and the majority are fine not neutered.

So I don’t think we need to change anything. Owners should have the option to choose what they want to do with their pet that suits their lifestyle.

Love that.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Love that.

Me too

 

[JBM]

Ireland is horrible for its dog breeding I wish we would follow suit with Norway and Denmark

Dog Neutering: The Unspoken Risks Of Neutering | Dogs First

Neutering dogs and puppies is an emotive subject. What are the health risks, side-effects & benefits? Serious health consequences can be avoided

www.dogsfirst.ie

“Fewer than 7% of their female dogs and even fewer males are neutered, yet they only have one pound. It’s now illegal in countries such as Norway and Denmark to remove the reproductive organs of dogs and cats unless medically necessary. Stine Christiansen, a Danish anthrozoologist and veterinarian, says there is no pet overpopulation problem in Denmark because people simply do not let their pets run loose. In Scandinavia, the general rule is lose your dog once there it’s a day’s wages. Lose him twice it’s a week’s wages. Lose him three time’s and he’s gone. This is all backed up with very tough welfare laws and very heavy penalties. Control your dogs, or else.”

 

[pistolpete]

I’ve always had rescues so they’ve all been neutered. Never had a problem male or female.

 

[Clodagh]

Ireland is horrible for its dog breeding I wish we would follow suit with Norway and Denmark

Dog Neutering: The Unspoken Risks Of Neutering | Dogs First

Neutering dogs and puppies is an emotive subject. What are the health risks, side-effects & benefits? Serious health consequences can be avoided

www.dogsfirst.ie

“Fewer than 7% of their female dogs and even fewer males are neutered, yet they only have one pound. It’s now illegal in countries such as Norway and Denmark to remove the reproductive organs of dogs and cats unless medically necessary. Stine Christiansen, a Danish anthrozoologist and veterinarian, says there is no pet overpopulation problem in Denmark because people simply do not let their pets run loose. In Scandinavia, the general rule is lose your dog once there it’s a day’s wages. Lose him twice it’s a week’s wages. Lose him three time’s and he’s gone. This is all backed up with very tough welfare laws and very heavy penalties. Control your dogs, or else.”

Scandinavian people are much more societal minded than Brits (and possibly Irish!). I think they have tight dog control expectations in the first place.

 

[JBM]

Yeah I think we need the same! Too many people have dogs and don’t have a clue
The people neutering aren’t part of the problem
Would be the people letting their dogs have random litters..I see them all the time “surprise litter 200 a pup”
I would get my dogs a Vasectomy personally if I was worried for reproduction

 

[skinnydipper]

Most of my dogs have been from rescues and I didn't have a choice.

2 bitches had spay incontinence treated with Incurin.

Spay/neuter increases the risk of certain cancers: haemangiosarcoma, mast cell tumours, lymphoma, osteosarcoma, prostate cancer.

A dog and a bitch had mast cell tumours, one bitch died following ruptured haemangiosarcoma.

 

[SOS]

If people were perfect then this would be a much more valid debate for the UK now. Risks of neutering in dogs can be reduced by neutering at a slightly older age, however rescues will neuter as and when they get animals in.

Other countries are doing it much better than us, but some of our UK society were attacking ambulances during the COVID pandemic and just getting a slap on the wrist, they aren’t going to keep their entire animals under control. And on the flip side in countries with low neuter rates but less societal pet welfare concern (often those in much poverty) the unwanted puppies and kittens are in abundance.

If tighter restrictions came in on pet ownership then we’d be talking!

 

[Morwenna]

There are health risks to neutering and health risks to not. I was undecided about having mine spayed, but as she really does not cope with being in season, and the associated hormone changes, I am having her spayed next week.

The biggest risk is idiot dog owners but sadly you can’t legislate for stupidity.

 

[MurphysMinder]

There are health risks to neutering and health risks to not. I was undecided about having mine spayed, but as she really does not cope with being in season, and the associated hormone changes, I am having her spayed next week.

The biggest risk is idiot dog owners but sadly you can’t legislate for stupidity.

I lost a bitch to pyo at 12 years old, despite catching it early at her age she didn't recover from surgery. I have spayed my last 2 but not till they were older, my current young GSD has had 3 seasons and 3 phantoms, she is nearly 2 and much as I would have liked to leave it another couple of years I think I may end up having her done later this year for her well being. The 2 boys are castrated, the older one was done at a year old because he was a total sex pest, he has improved but at nearly 13 years old he still tells me when the GSD is coming in season a couple of days before any visible signs. I had hoped to leave the younger male entire but as he reached maturity a few niggles started between him and the older male so he was done too.
I think you just have to weigh up the pros and cons for each individual animal and make a decision accordingly.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

This may be the American in me, but I am very pro neuter/spay. There are higher cancer risks if you leave dogs and bitches intact and higher cancer risks if you don't. Two sides to that coin. I only own bitches and wait until after their first or second heat (3rd with one) to spay. I don't feel as though I need to risk Pyo, especially when I'm not breeding. Every spayed dog I've had has been the same dog post spay minus the issues they had from being intact (anxiety, phantom pregnancies, etc). Maybe I've been lucky but I've had none suffer from incontinence, and thus they've all lived healthy lives. I'm not breeding, I want zero chances of an oops, and one of mine had a lot of anxiety surrounding her heats and phantom pregnancies. What would be the point of not spaying? What would the animal truly gain and get out of it?

There are so many neutered dogs out there living long and healthy lives that seem to be just fine around here. I honestly feel as though some look for any excuse or reasoning that they can cling to that will justify them keeping their pets intact. Honestly, I'm not sure if it's an ego thing or bizarre fascination at times. This doesn't apply to everyone, of course.

I do support waiting until their a bit older and I feel this way with horses too in respect to gelding, for the most part. I'm ok with that for development and growth purposes.

Here in the US, Americans often neuter very early, which I don't love, but I'd rather that than not at all, I think.

There are pros and cons to both sides, but the there are too many dogs out there. I don't know what could happen to me, or when, so I rather mine be spayed on the very off chance that they end up in the wrong hands, or in some very rare situation where an oops litter would occur.

 

[splashgirl45]

Both of my terriers were neutered at 12 months as they are both very small and my vet considered them fully grown, the dog was humping everything and that stopped and the butch had a false pregnancy and was very distressed by it so spaying prevented that happening again. My lurcher boy is 1 year and 10 months. He is only licking up urine which I assume is an entire dog thing as none of my others have ever done that, and not showing any humping desire so far, im not sure when (or if) he will be neutered but my previous larger bitches weren’t done till they were 2 and a half years old and neither had urinary incontinence or cancer..

 

[HopOnTrot]

My dog was done at 8 months due to his love of self oral pleasure. No one wants dog semen on the sofa

 

[EventingMum]

I find so much conflicting advice on neutering I'm never sure what is right. The only bitches my family have had were rescues so part of the adoption was agreeing to neuter. The first dog we had wasn't neutered and the only problem we had was he once went off his food when a neighbour had a bitch in season. All the dogs since then were neutered on my vet's advice ( we were told cancer prevention was the main benefit) until the most recent one. That vet retired and my current vet recommended not neutering the current young dog (2.5 years old) unless he became a sex pest, which he hasn't. This vet claims there's a great cancer risk from neutering - completely the opposite of what the previous vet said. At the moment I'm happy either way, the two older dogs (6 and 12) are neutered and so far there doesn't seem to be any dominance issues between the three of them.

 

[Dobiegirl]

You can see why rescues neuter/spay so as not to add to the problem.

Ive seen a couple of rescues(I use that word loosely) quote the health benefits of not neutering as an excuse when really they just mean they want to maximise their profit.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

My little one is 5 months on Sunday, if I were in the USA then I'd be recommended to get her speyed asap.
As it is, I have a pragmatic lovely small animal vet (who was also horse vet and owns a couple) who suggested she was speyed at around 6 months as she knows I'm planning on getting her done as we go our and about everywhere and I have no plans to breed her at all.
The +/- in getting her done then is more + than - imho.

 

[Morwenna]

This is quite long but interesting. Looking at the incidence of joint issues and various cancers in dogs and bitches depending on whether or not they are neutered / spayed and the age at which they were done for various popular breeds.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fvets.2020.00388/full

 

[Jenko109]

My male is and will remain entire.

My bitches were spayed after their first season.

If I get another bitch in future then I think I would hold out for longer, but I would still spay. I selfishly just do not want to deal with the blood, missing training/shows and having to manage an entire male and female in the same house.

 

[maya2008]

Our family experiences:
1x male. Didn’t initially neuter. Became aggressive and bit my dad (parents’ dog). They neutered him and things improved, then we sorted the training and the biting stopped completely. Died of old age in the end.

3x females. Also didn’t initially neuter. First one got breast cancer which would likely have been prevented by neutering, and died from it. Second one was so distressed by her own heats that she was eventually neutered. Died from cancer aged 14 (lab so decent age for the breed). Third one escaped (like Houdini, you’d never have believed the lengths she went to!) and got caught by her entire close relative. Neutered that one in heat. She’s now 16 with mild arthritis, managed by supplements. She was very active in her youth so that’s not a huge surprise.

So in terms of cancer risk - the only one who lived a shorter life than expected due to cancer was the one not neutered. Small sample I know!

If I got another dog would I neuter asap? Yes, for sure! We procrastinated with the cat, thinking she should have one heat first and she was just so uncomfortable it made me feel so guilty. Kept coming to me to ask me to fix it but there was obviously nothing I could do.

 

[Boulty]

With male dogs a lot of current advice is not to castrate unless for a medical or behavioural reason (& to trial an implant first if it’s for a behavioural issue to make sure you’re not going to make it worse)

Having seen many many dogs die due to pyometra I’d always advocate for having a bitch spayed though. A heck of a lot of owners don’t spot the signs before things get dangerous for their dog (& tbf some dogs don’t show obvious signs until things have progressed quite far). That’s without considering the mammary cancer risk (mammary strip is not a nice surgery and I’ve seen some go very wrong sadly). Would definitely advocate for letting them reach maturity first though especially if a large breed.

Can totally understand why the majority of rescues neuter before rehoming though as they absolutely do not want any dog that they’ve had to rescue to be bred from.

Cats? There is no evidence that neutering them has significant negative effects on their health and we have an absolutely massive stray cat problem in this country. There is no good reason not to neuter. Entire male cats living on the streets (which is where a lot of them end up) do not tend to live very good or very long lives sadly and soooo many young female cats wind up unintentionally pregnant.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Keep the males entire, tackle required for work and breed rating, spay females past breeding age to minimise pyo risk.

 

[Moobli]

I’m having the dilemma just now. My GSD bitch was spayed last year at 3 years. I have an entire male GSD and an entire border collie b!tch. The GSD has had the chemical castration implant twice but it wore off 12 months ago. He can be a bully with the entire male sheepdogs but it’s manageable. Unless it becomes a bigger problem I will keep him entire. I don’t intend to breed from my collie and do worry about pyo so do keep considering spaying. She will be 3 years this summer so there’s no rush but I don’t really know what to do for the best.

 

[KEK]

Personally (I have high level agility dogs), I don't think there is any good reason to keep a bitch entire, unless it's being bred from. I let my girls have 1-2 seasons then spay. The boys are harder, and I've only had 2 (both small breeds). Both I ended up castrating due to behavioural reasons. I don't have breeds massively prone to cancer (BCs and BCXs) but even if I did I think I would spey the bitches (probably not dogs).

 

[EllieBeast]

We have two bitches and a Dog. Both bitches are spayed-

12yr old Dalmatian was done prior to her first season, as was the advice of my vets at the time. Luckily no urinary incontinence, but did have a mast cell tumour at 9yrs old. Otherwise incredibly fit and well for her age.

5yr old German Longhaired Pointer bitch, we knew (due to our jobs) we wouldn’t be able to breed, so made the decision to spay after her second season- she is my Husbands working gundog so as well as removing the risks of Pyo etc, it also means no seasons to get in the way of her working.

1yr old German Longhaired Pointer Dog, still entire- plan to leave plums in situ unless he gives us a reason to remove them. Currently confident but respectful in temperament- not a sex pest at all yet but know there’s still time . Would go down the superlorin route prior to the full surgery first to ensure it affected him in the right way.

 

[Goldenstar]

My dogs entire hes a well behaved peaceable character if he had given a hint of trouble I would have done the deed .
I do spay my bitches I don’t breed and it’s much nicer when you live in a village or town not to deal with entire dogs with dumb owners .
Pearl was spayed after her second season she had a falsie both times .

 

[poiuytrewq]

Our terriers are both neutered, neither were ever going to be bred from and Basil was obsessive about Cecil, to the point he almost had no life, then the lab would get involved and it was all only going to end one way.
I spoke to two vets and a behaviourist at the time and all said the same. In hindsight there was no need to have taken Cecil but i thought it right at the time.
It solved the problem and Basil is a far happier dog for it.
I wasn't aware though that it isn't great for boys and had assumed that, as with girls the health benefits were more if you DID neuter and that it was safer to do so.
Now I know differently, If we ever had a bitch i would spay but the way things are, unless he changes dramatically Bert can keep his as they *touch wood* cause no problem what so ever.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Since writing that, I’ve been asked if someone could use B as a stud…. I just said he’s way too young.
I admit I love the sorry he has no nuts excuse I used the (several ) times I’ve been asked about cec