SpotsandBays
Well-Known Member
This made me laugh! I also can’t remember his name
*sorry I have no useful input for this discussion
Is Parelli all bad?
- Thread starter Fjord
- Start date
*sorry I have no useful input for this discussion
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
I don’t think you can do better than watching Tim Anderson on you tube it’s not always pretty his videos are here’s X x is here for y and then he gets on with working with the horses you can follow horses right through their training.
They are just videos of work sessions he’s extremely experienced and reads horses really well .
Parelli is really way of marketing a training system and I can’t stand it my friend called paying to torment a horse with a stick and a carrot.
Like every thing with horses western style training is the same but different as other systems and it would not matter what system Tim Anderson was brought up in he would be able to train a horse because he got the eye and the timing .
He’s good at explaining what he’s seeing and why he likes or does not like it
I also like the clever cowgirl she posts all sorts and I like the stuff about horse care in a very different environment to the UK
But she trains in great way as well her halter breaking series is great
There’s loads on you tube to watch and learn and challenge what you know.
They are just videos of work sessions he’s extremely experienced and reads horses really well .
Parelli is really way of marketing a training system and I can’t stand it my friend called paying to torment a horse with a stick and a carrot.
Like every thing with horses western style training is the same but different as other systems and it would not matter what system Tim Anderson was brought up in he would be able to train a horse because he got the eye and the timing .
He’s good at explaining what he’s seeing and why he likes or does not like it
I also like the clever cowgirl she posts all sorts and I like the stuff about horse care in a very different environment to the UK
But she trains in great way as well her halter breaking series is great
There’s loads on you tube to watch and learn and challenge what you know.
Orangehorse
Well-Known Member
I remember seeing a Parelli demonstration in the very early years, when they first came over. There was that lady in a mobility scooter who played with her horse, that was I admit, rather impressive. Although when I saw them live I thought it looked more like circus training.
However, I know a lady who had a real thug of a horse, he was impossible in lots of ways. She got the DVD training system and worked slowly through it. At the end she had a horse that would neigh and gallop over the field to her, and turned out to be a really great trail/trec horse, having gone from zero to hero.
It seems that to start with it looked impressive, but just got more and more "cult" like.
Although the horses I rode in the USA were all Parelli trained, and they were great.
However, I know a lady who had a real thug of a horse, he was impossible in lots of ways. She got the DVD training system and worked slowly through it. At the end she had a horse that would neigh and gallop over the field to her, and turned out to be a really great trail/trec horse, having gone from zero to hero.
It seems that to start with it looked impressive, but just got more and more "cult" like.
Although the horses I rode in the USA were all Parelli trained, and they were great.
Fjord
Well-Known Member
Thanks everyone, I've really liked all the different responses.
I've just watched some you tube videos and I definitely like Warwick Schiller! So easy to listen to as well, and he has excellent timing. I'll watch some of the other suggestions too, so if you have any links to good videos feel free to post them! It's interesting to see that the Parelli games appear in the other videos, just spoken about differently and as part of other training. So I think I will do as suggested, and pick and mix bits from the different videos, to try and see what suits us best.
I've just watched some you tube videos and I definitely like Warwick Schiller! So easy to listen to as well, and he has excellent timing. I'll watch some of the other suggestions too, so if you have any links to good videos feel free to post them! It's interesting to see that the Parelli games appear in the other videos, just spoken about differently and as part of other training. So I think I will do as suggested, and pick and mix bits from the different videos, to try and see what suits us best.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Have fun never has been as good a time to have a enquiring equestrian mind .
HopOnTrot
Well-Known Member
If you have an audible subscription there are (free to listen to) books by Mark Rashid and Buck Beuchannan on there, probably about 5 different books in total but all worth a listen (I have to listen to audio books to sleep). What they talk about is what Pirelli was before it was badly packaged and sold, good horsemanship and lots of examples of them looking at issues from different angles.
Bob notacob
Well-Known Member
Currently trying to get through to a very sensitive coloured cob from a traveller background. He is so gentle but throws out all the signals of "I will bite you and drag you over this door" But I cannot quite figure him out.(and that really bugs me) A lot of horses hate men from having been treated harshly. Yet he does not react like that. But it is as if he had a male handler who was kind to him ,and then fell amongst the bad ones. I think he is wondering which sort am I. I talk to him a lot ,in a very non confrontation way . I watch him display a whole range of contradictory signals , but as I am only getting the tractors keys from the shed next to him , he is left bemused by my lack of apparent interest . Each time he seems more eager to "Talk" Dont know much about parreli. (thought they made tyres) But I will try to learn from anyone.
Carrottom
Well-Known Member
I have watched a few videos of Parelli with students - because his training is all about timing, by the time he has told them what to do, it is too late when they react. I think he was an excellent horseman but got carried away by his own hype and that of his wife.
For free you tube videos, have a look at Steve Young. They can be a bit verbose, but he does encourage people to compare and contrast and pick what works for them
For free you tube videos, have a look at Steve Young. They can be a bit verbose, but he does encourage people to compare and contrast and pick what works for them
silv
Well-Known Member
You must know the same people as me, they all fit into the same demographic group mostly too.
fidleyspromise
Well-Known Member
I do a mix of everything. I do some parelli now and then with my horse although a lot less these days.
I learned the games from dvds and went to a 2 day clinic with my horse is 2013 and we had lots of fun but the instructor liked the horses individual characters rather than shut down.
The reason I went that route was because I had a young flighty horse I was struggling with so I practiced with my confident horse so I could make sure I knew what I was doing and how timing worked. I also used low pressure - none of this swinging the rope like a skipping rope.
I had a local instructor out near the beginning and I wasn't impressed as ahe wanted mechanical reactions from my horse. It was boring and not fun for me or my horse
I follow Warwick Shiller, have read Mark Rashids books and they made me think differently and how to get the best from my horse by looking at their point of view.
I follow a few things that are seen as having cults but I go off and do my own thing with them. They may work for others or they may not but I don't discuss what I'm doing or how I keep my horses unless someone asks.
I still get things wrong but I have fun with my horses. We do ground work, poles and jumps in hand, go for walks in hand, ride and lead and then my ridden pony (the confident one) we ride in the woods and on the beach exploring new tracks and she gets to pick some of where we go and the gait.
I learned the games from dvds and went to a 2 day clinic with my horse is 2013 and we had lots of fun but the instructor liked the horses individual characters rather than shut down.
The reason I went that route was because I had a young flighty horse I was struggling with so I practiced with my confident horse so I could make sure I knew what I was doing and how timing worked. I also used low pressure - none of this swinging the rope like a skipping rope.
I had a local instructor out near the beginning and I wasn't impressed as ahe wanted mechanical reactions from my horse. It was boring and not fun for me or my horse
I follow Warwick Shiller, have read Mark Rashids books and they made me think differently and how to get the best from my horse by looking at their point of view.
I follow a few things that are seen as having cults but I go off and do my own thing with them. They may work for others or they may not but I don't discuss what I'm doing or how I keep my horses unless someone asks.
I still get things wrong but I have fun with my horses. We do ground work, poles and jumps in hand, go for walks in hand, ride and lead and then my ridden pony (the confident one) we ride in the woods and on the beach exploring new tracks and she gets to pick some of where we go and the gait.
PurBee
Well-Known Member
I happened to watch a video on youtube tonight for various techniques farriers use for holding the rear leg while trimming. I need to find a different good comfy and strong stance to do mine, so was hoping for some alternative technique tips. Todays’ efforts was paining my back!
Trawling through the videos, one i watched was of a chap with his horse demonstrating how to pick up feet. It wasnt relevant to my quest but i carried on watching because of the technique he had learnt via parelli-esque type training techniques.
He started violently swinging the very long lead rope over the horse randomly. Horse was startled but the longer he went on the ‘less desensitised’ (his words) the horse became. It took a while. Then he got a lunge whip and started whacking that about around the horse - which he played on fast-forward so the visual was a horse pulling away from him all over the large yard completely stressed-out. The body language of the horse was to retreat constantly from this maniacal whipping man.
Until the horse got so exhausted by all the stress, it shut down, and let him fling ropes and whack whips - upon which he stated was ‘de-sensitisation’. The horses head was dropped, eyes flat, and completely shut-down IMO.
He was then free to pull on legs, pick them up etc. The horse had endured many long minutes of flailing ropes and whips to give-up and just let the guy do whatever he wanted.
It reminded me of the old cowboy videos of bombard with so much stress the horse simply completely gives up all its will and attention and complies lazily.
I thought NH was about more compassionate training, than older more ‘brutal force shut its spirit down’ methods. What i witnessed on the video was NH/parelli-type methods shutting down a horse’s will completely. May aswell have used stocks, might have been less stressful tbh.
That video reminded me, when we de-sensitise, we have to be acutely aware of reaching that line of over-load stress and shut-down. We want the horse to learn while alert that a thing isnt to be feared. It learns nothing when drenched in adrenaline and cortisol with a blown brain. All it learns is that whenever a human is there, comply or else the worst stress will be experienced.
There’s a parallel to be seen from both states: the over-reactive body with blown stressed brain and the shut-down brain - both states the horse is actually in survival mode, isnt learning willingly/eagerly or happily interested.
Its such a fine line isnt it? To be introducing stress, but be fair about it. Have them alert and intrigued every step of the way. I recognise all horses react differently but seeing and listening …feeling the horse where its at on the learning journey. I love watching trainers that inherently have that natural ability, who are acutely aware where that ‘knife-edge’ is of having the horse’s attention and bombarding it to stress-brain or shut-down state.
When a concept becomes monetised, it is easily corrupted producing varying questionable results. Parelli and M. Roberts have both seemingly fallen foul of that temptation to monetise what essentially is the idea of good horsemanship.
Methods are all well and good, but they cannot be applied cookie-cut style and work the same for all horses. Good trainers individualise their training for the horse infront of them. They dont have a bag of tricks they repeatedly apply the same to all and any horse.
I love watching training videos, even older style classic methods, to see how they all tune into that individual horse in front of them, and how they then adapt their training skills to work with that horse as an individual. The methods are secondary, it seems, the feel of the trainer and them tuning-in to the ever-changing state of the horse seems like thats an aspect to training that’s more important for successful training outcome than methodologies.
Trawling through the videos, one i watched was of a chap with his horse demonstrating how to pick up feet. It wasnt relevant to my quest but i carried on watching because of the technique he had learnt via parelli-esque type training techniques.
He started violently swinging the very long lead rope over the horse randomly. Horse was startled but the longer he went on the ‘less desensitised’ (his words) the horse became. It took a while. Then he got a lunge whip and started whacking that about around the horse - which he played on fast-forward so the visual was a horse pulling away from him all over the large yard completely stressed-out. The body language of the horse was to retreat constantly from this maniacal whipping man.
Until the horse got so exhausted by all the stress, it shut down, and let him fling ropes and whack whips - upon which he stated was ‘de-sensitisation’. The horses head was dropped, eyes flat, and completely shut-down IMO.
He was then free to pull on legs, pick them up etc. The horse had endured many long minutes of flailing ropes and whips to give-up and just let the guy do whatever he wanted.
It reminded me of the old cowboy videos of bombard with so much stress the horse simply completely gives up all its will and attention and complies lazily.
I thought NH was about more compassionate training, than older more ‘brutal force shut its spirit down’ methods. What i witnessed on the video was NH/parelli-type methods shutting down a horse’s will completely. May aswell have used stocks, might have been less stressful tbh.
That video reminded me, when we de-sensitise, we have to be acutely aware of reaching that line of over-load stress and shut-down. We want the horse to learn while alert that a thing isnt to be feared. It learns nothing when drenched in adrenaline and cortisol with a blown brain. All it learns is that whenever a human is there, comply or else the worst stress will be experienced.
There’s a parallel to be seen from both states: the over-reactive body with blown stressed brain and the shut-down brain - both states the horse is actually in survival mode, isnt learning willingly/eagerly or happily interested.
Its such a fine line isnt it? To be introducing stress, but be fair about it. Have them alert and intrigued every step of the way. I recognise all horses react differently but seeing and listening …feeling the horse where its at on the learning journey. I love watching trainers that inherently have that natural ability, who are acutely aware where that ‘knife-edge’ is of having the horse’s attention and bombarding it to stress-brain or shut-down state.
When a concept becomes monetised, it is easily corrupted producing varying questionable results. Parelli and M. Roberts have both seemingly fallen foul of that temptation to monetise what essentially is the idea of good horsemanship.
Methods are all well and good, but they cannot be applied cookie-cut style and work the same for all horses. Good trainers individualise their training for the horse infront of them. They dont have a bag of tricks they repeatedly apply the same to all and any horse.
I love watching training videos, even older style classic methods, to see how they all tune into that individual horse in front of them, and how they then adapt their training skills to work with that horse as an individual. The methods are secondary, it seems, the feel of the trainer and them tuning-in to the ever-changing state of the horse seems like thats an aspect to training that’s more important for successful training outcome than methodologies.
asmp
Well-Known Member
My one experience of it was letting my horse be used for a RC demo. He wouldn’t move over when asked (would lean into to you instead). The instructor’s suggestion? Poke him with a hoofpick until he moves!
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
Anyone interested in more flexible application of nh principles should look up Tik Maynard and Mark Rashid. Tik in particular favours what he calls 'Cafeteria Horsemanship' ie learn as much as you can from as many different people as possible, become skilled in a range of approaches, and then slowly over time, develop your own style and approach with roots in lots of different places.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
No one can save you from from the slog of learning and waste of time and outcome that mistakes cause .
You have to go through it , learn timing learn observation, learn to get your balance good enough so you can have an effective position .
You have to learn that love and good intentions is not enough, you need challenge yourself to be better every time .
What I don’t like is training dogma the moment it’s my way will give you horsey nirvana and every one else is bad and that’s what marketed systems tend to push .
I do work to system with horses my system I been developing it since I was about six and it should never stop.
Always look to people who have horses without drama they usually the best people to watch .
I like Steve Young hes a horseman he’s got a good eye and good timing but boy does he go on it just is all too time consuming with too much crap of driving in cars .
You have to go through it , learn timing learn observation, learn to get your balance good enough so you can have an effective position .
You have to learn that love and good intentions is not enough, you need challenge yourself to be better every time .
What I don’t like is training dogma the moment it’s my way will give you horsey nirvana and every one else is bad and that’s what marketed systems tend to push .
I do work to system with horses my system I been developing it since I was about six and it should never stop.
Always look to people who have horses without drama they usually the best people to watch .
I like Steve Young hes a horseman he’s got a good eye and good timing but boy does he go on it just is all too time consuming with too much crap of driving in cars .
dorsetladette
Well-Known Member
I've enjoyed watching the Steve Young horsemanship you tube videos. He does yard visits to 'problem horses' and his wife or daughter video. The videos are quite long as they are real time, but you get the whole picture which I feel is often missing from these training video's. He explains things in 'real life speak' so you can understand what he is doing and what he is trying to achieve. He is also not afraid to change tactics if his first approach doesn't work - which I found interesting/refreshing as some NH people will keep 'flogging a dead horse' even when it's obvious it isn't working.
As others have said - it isn't a one size fits all. What works for one doesn't work for all.
As others have said - it isn't a one size fits all. What works for one doesn't work for all.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
I did dabble in early Parelli before it became huge. Some decent basic stuff there. It certainly helped the now senior mare get over her loading difficulties.
Non Parelli BHS qualified instructor method? Broom up the bum, slam ramp shut, job done
. Yeah, it gone her on that time, but as for the next, forget it.
Parelli got her loading again. Once she was in she was allowed to reverse back out if she needed to - it was very important to her not to feel trapped. It was a while before we progressed to putting the ramp up. Before long she got her trust back, and that was it. It was about being able to move her feet. Very much not shut down.
Later Parelli though
.
Non Parelli BHS qualified instructor method? Broom up the bum, slam ramp shut, job done
. Yeah, it gone her on that time, but as for the next, forget it.Parelli got her loading again. Once she was in she was allowed to reverse back out if she needed to - it was very important to her not to feel trapped. It was a while before we progressed to putting the ramp up. Before long she got her trust back, and that was it. It was about being able to move her feet. Very much not shut down.
Later Parelli though
.