Is rearing considered a vice?

Hollycat

Hollycat

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If you bought a horse that the seller stated had no vices but was not a novice ride, would you have any comeback against the seller if the horse started rearing? In particular if you found out from a past rider that had been schooling the horse, that the horse was a confirmed rearer and it had been sent back to the seller from being schooled as it was considered dangerous? Or when buying horses is it just a case of 'let the buyer beware'?
 
Yes rearing is considered a bad vice, if you have a receipt stating no ridden vices, then you have a case as long as you can prove the horse reared with the person you bought from.
 
well not straight away. they wouldnt be too hapy if you woke em lol

How long have you had the horse? How long after you had it did is start to rear.

Has its back been checked /saddle been checked.

Yes it is a vice, but its sometimes caused by pain.

Lou x
 
Seller has admitted to us now that the horse has reared in the past but blames everyone that has ever ridden the horse (including us). We didn't specifically ask if the horse had ever reared when we looked at her, but we asked did she have any vices etc etc. Problem is we have had the horse for a while as she was poor when we got her and had been out of work (owner had been seriously ill which was true). We took it very slow with her to build her up and not ask too much. When she started rearing we had everything checked - teeth, saddle fit, back, had the vet out etc which all took a while to rule out any pain or discomfort. Was in contact with seller at that point who did not mention they had the same problem. They are only admitting it now as we talked to the professional rider that sent the horse back from being schooled.

The rearing is bad. She almost comes over backwards and gives very little warning when she is going to do it. She only does it when asked to work hard or when she doesn't want to do something - if she feels shes hacked far enough, at home being schooled and at competitions. We paid alot of money for her as a comp horse but down the centre line, halt, rear isn't very satisfactory.

We don't necessarily want to take her back as we have had her for a while and are prepared to try and get to the bottom of it with her. We just feel very angry at having been duped like this - particularly as she is dangerous and someone could have been killed or badly injured. I don't want to harp on about money but we bought her together as our dream horse pooling our resources for a horse we couldn't afford individually and we have ended up with a horse which is very scarey and essentially worthless as we could never sell her on
 
Buyer beware i think especially if you knew it was not a novice ride :S

very naughty of them BUT you would find it hard to come back at them I would think as you knew on buying he wasnt easy
 
I think you are in a really difficult situation and I really feel for you! I hope you can find a solution to the mare's problems!

I am surprised at people's responses though as for me there are four vices that have to be declared when the vet or the buyer asks: cribbing, wind-sucking, box walking and weaving. So if she does not do any of the above, strictly speaking, the seller was right to say she has no vices.

Having said that, a habitual rearer is clearly a dangerous horse and they should have disclosed that, although where you stand legally might be another matter entirely. It might be best to talk to an equine specialist solicitor, they usually offer an initial consultation for free, who can advise on your rights and the chances of getting any money back from the owner.

Good luck!!!
 
"No vices" is open to interpretation. To some it includes ridden vices like rearing, but it often only refers to stable vices like weaving.

What the seller did was unethical, a habit like serial rearing ought to have been disclosed, but there are lots of b'stards out there selling horses who don't give a monkeys about morals. You have been done by one and I don't think there is much that you can do about it.
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Thanks everyone - its interesting to get everyones views. We are very fond of the mare and are trying lots of things to see what works best for her. She goes best in a magic bit but it is illegal for BD comps! We are talking with a bitting specialist to try and get a bit that has a similar effect but is BD legal. Noseband doesn't seem to make any difference - we never use a tight noseband with her.

What helps is having her out 24/7 - she seems less stressed and more ameniable. Also magnesium calmers help her tension too at comps.

It will be something that will always be there with her and she is a very kind, lovely mare. She is just like jeckell and hyde though - one minute she is lovely, the next she is awful in the blink of an eye and with no warning she is unhappy or resistant.
 
In a sales context I always thought that 'vices' were what we now call stereo typical behaviours i.e weaving, cribbing/ windsucking and box walking- as these can be detremental to overall health.

Rearing is a behaverial issue, as serious one, but not a vice IMO If the horse was mis sold then you might have a comeback, but if it was sold as not a novice ride then i'm not sure?
 
If the horse has a known history of rearing to the point where it is dangerous and doing it quite a lot then I would contact a equine law firm to see where you stand, they did point out that the horse was not a novice ride therefore you expect the odd qurk but obviously something that an experianced rider can handle and still ride safely as well as carrying out the job intended but if it has been schooled by experianced riders specifically to improve that problem then you have been had!

I agree rearing is not what I'd class a vice, otherwise you could say bucking is or spooking is or running out at jumps, where do you draw the line....the list could go on and well every horse in the country would have a vice.

But never the less its a dangerous behaviour and you have every right to return the horse. It should of been their job to check its back, saddle, bit and all that business...or find out whats going on in the horses head and sort it out before they went and sold it on, not only that but if they thought it was your riding then get them to come over and ride it for you.

Good luck.
 
Feel sorry for you, good on you for trying to get to the bottom of her, she sounds lovely in other ways and you are obviously attached to her now....so always difficult. I'll keep my fingers crossed
grin.gif
 
I returned a horse because it was a rearer.Bought in private sale,got it vetted.2 weeks later it started rearing when it didn't want to do something.Old owners eventually took it back reluctantly I might add and refunded money.They weren't going to but we found people who knew the horse and said it was a confirmed rearer and we advised old owners of people who knew horse.
But you want to keep horse -I didn't so don't really know how that helps
As has been said see solicitor for advice
 
Thanks everyone. We have spoken to a solicior as we get free advice with our BD membership, and to be honest though we do have a case - taking it to court could be very expensive if it went against us, and it just may not be worth the tears and hassle given we have lost enough already.

Hot or sharp is very different from dangerous in my opinion and if it was the odd nappy rear every so often then that would be fine. Given that a top professional rider (household name) returned the horse to the seller as too dangerous to ride gives an indication that this problem is more than just being 'not a novice ride'.

More than anything I think the horse world needs to get its house in order and realise selling a dangerous animal is not acceptable. If I was sold a car whose brakes failed every time it went down a very steep hill, then it would not be ok for the seller to say 'well we told you it was a sports car and it goes down hills fast'.

I hope we do get to the bottom of this for the horses sake as I don't think horses rear like this for no reason.
 
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I am surprised at people's responses though as for me there are four vices that have to be declared when the vet or the buyer asks: cribbing, wind-sucking, box walking and weaving. So if she does not do any of the above, strictly speaking, the seller was right to say she has no vices.

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Same here, a "vice" to me is purely a stable vice like cribbing etc. I would not call rearing a vice. I think its very hard one... its hard to prove the owners did not tell you it reared. IMO it is buyer beware, I make sure I actually ask owners specific questions like literally "has the horse ever reared / bucked / bolted?" etc. I would never expect them to just tell me.
 
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