Is riding and use of the horse abuse in itself?

What a load of tosh
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What's 'in it' for any domesticated animal? Dogs and cats werent put on this earth to be captured and tamed by humans, any more than horses were. I'm sure if you 'asked' a wild cat whether it wants to wear a collar, it would say no. Ask a wild dog if it wants to be made to walk to heel, or asked to run through tunnels, or jump over fences - it would probably say no. Ask a budgie if it wants to be kept in a cage instead of its natural habitat...I'm sure it would rather run the risk of predators, given the choice! The list is endless
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My comment isnt a dig at you, wetpretz - just at the article
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Very interesting indeed - i often think about this myself and once when i was hacking out a man stopped me and asked why i was making my horse wear tack and carry me around streets for my own enjoyment and although he did piss me off - it did make me wonder. We do justify what we do with horses but really i suppose the article is absolutely spot on.
 
if you start on these thought where do you stop?
Humans domesticated horses thousands of years ago.

The one thing i do feel some people forget though is, that it is a privalige not a right for us to be allowed to ride and be around these majestic animals, and this privalige should be given willingly by the horse.
 
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The one thing i do feel some people forget though is, that it is a privalige not a right for us to be allowed to ride and be around these majestic animals, and this privalige should be given willingly by the horse.

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Now THAT I agree with
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You can't sit on a horse but it's 'morally justifiable' to specifically breed things just to kill and eat them? I don't think battery hens like their totally unnatural lives but because there is an end product, it's OK? I don't think dairy cows have an astonishingly natural and exciting life, but it's OK because we get milk from them... At least most of us love and look after our horses, just for the sheer pleasure of spending time with them - whether competing or just having them around.

Most articles like this seem to be written by non-horsey people (I know author is a scientist with RSPCA, but that doesn't mean they are into horses).
 
There is a faction within the RSPCA that opposes companion animals - ie pets of any description; it is all quite extreme. If you have a spare moment in a big magazine store dip into Vegetarian magazine - it's scary.

Look at the tough lives feral horses and cats have; especially in this modern world where they have a good chance of being hit by a car. My horses love their lives; they hate having time off - after all look at the depression problems among the human long-term unemployed.
 
I read a book years ago that suggested that domesticated animals 'chose' to be domesticated because it was to their advantage to hang out with humans, who provided food and protection from preditors. It said this is why we ride horses and not zebras as horses chose us and zebras didn't.
 
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"Horse riding is not a productive, educational, scientific, or useful activity. It is something people do, directly or indirectly, for entertainment, pleasure, or fun.

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Along with just about everything humans do when not at work, what a ridiculous thing to say.

Taken to it's natural conclusion, this argument would lead to the scientist losing his / her job and and in fact the disbandment of the RSPCA, as all domesticated or 'pet' species would be eliminated. The only dogs would be working dogs, no need for cats, or any small animals, budgies, parrots, racing pigeons etc, the list is endless.

This is why I ridicule those animal rights people who say that farm animals should not be exploited. If they were not producing food for humans, they would never be bred in the first place.

Oh dear, I could get a serious rant on with these people.
 
Oh my goodness. I didn't realise how horrible I was being to my poor horse by riding and training him!! I must stop immediatly --- so I will ring the vet tomorrow and have him destroyed!! Will that make the do gooders happy then!!!

What a load of nonsense.
 
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This is why I ridicule those animal rights people who say that farm animals should not be exploited. If they were not producing food for humans, they would never be bred in the first place.

Oh dear, I could get a serious rant on with these people.

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I agree with this - it's expressed better than I tried to in my previous post, but was the point I was trying to make - I'm a bit incoherent today.
 
I agree with all of the above really; perhaps some of the things we do to any animal aren't strictly what the animals would 'like' or would 'choose' given the opportunity to do so, however generally speaking (and I'm sure there are a few exceptions) domesticated animals are only around because people enjoy them so breed more... A world without animals being kept for human pleasure/use/reasons would very quickly become a world without animals in it- and personally I think given the choice most animals would rather be alive than dead
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Edited to add: Having said that (^) humans being the 'reason' for animal survival should only bestow upon us the duty of their absolute care and should NEVER give us with the right to inflict unnecessary pain, suffering or distress where we can possibly avoid doing so
 
The worse thing about the article is its total confusion between different issues. Some of the things it raises are welfare concerns about looking after horses properly and education, some are confused claims about what we get out of riding (fun not education, where the former does not rate very highly), some are fairly ignorant claims about the impact of certain aids like a double bridle, spurs or whips, some are again rather confused claims about what horses themselves would 'choose'...frightening really that this guy is a scientist and is given a voice in the media.
 
I really think it has a point although it doesn't make it very well. Horses would live happy fulfilled lives without being ridden and competed, which are things we use them for for our own enjoyment. Having to be useful and competitive does cause the problem that horses bred for this purpose but who fail to meet expectations, like all the waste race horses, and who can't earn their care are a welfare risk. A lot of the problems it raises regarding the use of sports horses are real and are largely ignored or justified because its been acceptable for so long.

One thing I think needs adding is that besides our enjoyment, there are many industries relying on competing horses and many professionals who have made their living by using horses. It would be near on impossible to tell them, "sorry its tight and you can't do it any more".

I don't agree with it all and I don't know what we can do about the issues that aren't ideal for horses, but I don't think you can dismiss it as rubbish.
 
Anyone who thinks I'm abusing Daisy should try getting her to do something she doesn't want to do
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I gave her a day off from dressage today which she tolerates and let her jump. She was in her element, I had to hold her back as she screamed "let me at it, look how high I can go over that". At 10st there is no way I could make her jump if she didn't want to.
 
But if you put jumps in her field and leave her to her own devices, does she run round jumping them or does she stand munching grass and playing with her mates? She might wake up when you jump her but my guess is that it wouldn't be her first choice of things to be doing if it were entirely up to her.
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You could go round philosophising for hours about this sort of stuff.

FACT: humans domesticated and created the various breeds of animal we know and love.

FACT: a good proportion of those breeds (rightly or wrongly) could not exist without human support. Can you imagine your average TB or warmblood surviving on the mountains in winter? Bulldogs would not last long, as they cannot reproduce without human interference.

We need animals, and they need us, whether it is for food, work or pleasure. And we need animals for food, it makes me laugh when the vegetarian lobby start up that grain is a better use of the land than rearing meat. I'm sure it is, when you have flat fertile fields, but I challenge anyone to come and grow worthwhile crops around here. And I'll stand and laugh as you try to plough among the rocks!

People who come out with this mushy sort of stuff should stop talking and actually take some action about the real problems in the world.
 
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But if you put jumps in her field and leave her to her own devices, does she run round jumping them or does she stand munching grass and playing with her mates? She might wake up when you jump her but my guess is that it wouldn't be her first choice of things to be doing if it were entirely up to her.
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I had a Tbx Connie who used to jump out of his field, cross the yard, jump into the jumps field and jump a couple of courses all by himself! I also have a DWB who had been learning ten metre circles in the school and then practiced in the field by running at the fence with his mate then doing the perfect 10 metre circle at the last minute leaving his mate to come to a crashing halt.

The best trained horses are the ones that have an interest in what they are doing and have been trained sympathetically in an encouraging manner.
 
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But if you put jumps in her field and leave her to her own devices, does she run round jumping them or does she stand munching grass and playing with her mates?

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actually at least 2 or 3 of mine would jump...

was at a friends this week with babyhorse and he was jumping the trotting poles in the menage when i let him loose in there

also was wandering through my wood this weekend and a tree has come down near the horses path, and the horses tracks have actually detoured away from the path to the tree and theyve obviously been jumping it when they hoon through the woods

so yes, they seem to like jumping well enough to do it for their own pleasure...
 
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