Is seeing a stride jumping so important ..

[opinionuk]

My mare is a good little Showjumper and generally sort outs the striding herself, however, I have started having lessons with a Event rider who is all about the striding in Showjumping, however whenever I put the striding into practise she starts having poles down, 2 poles in each class the other day when she usually jumps clear.

Surely as a rider it's our responsibility to get her straight and balanced rather than mess about with the striding?

Is it necessary to re-educating her, we are jumping at 1m and a metre five.

 

[Clare85]

For me, I think feel is more important than seeing a stride - if it feels right then go with it, don't look for strides which may put her out of kilter. If your horse is going in a nice rhythm and is jumping clear quite comfortably then why mess about with her? IMO your horse will probably be better placed to see her stride than anyone who is sitting on her back. Obviously babies need to be taught when/where to take off but I'm not sure it's so important for a more established horse who knows its job.

 

[dieseldog]

Have you had lessons with a Show Jumper rather than an Eventer? If so what did they tell you to do? Are you hoping to jump bigger more technical tracks than you are now, or is this your horses limit?

 

[opinionuk]

Have you had lessons with a Show Jumper rather than an Eventer? If so what did they tell you to do? Are you hoping to jump bigger more technical tracks than you are now, or is this your horses limit?

Hi no it's not her limit its mine! Lol
I tend to have lessons with eventers as xc is my love and unfortunately our weakness as she's not overly brave xc but great showjumping

 

[Jesstickle]

I wouldn't take showjumping lessons from an eventer if you actually want to jump clear

How big are you jumping? I think unless you are jumping something big or you know the distance is tricky it is far better to just set up a good canter and get on with it. This is just MO but it is an opinion which I hear reiterated a lot by people who are much more capable than me and it suits my inability to see a stride so I go with it! Most of the time horses are pretty damn good at sorting themselves out if you let them. Plus if you get the canter right and ride the turn probably you rarely find a real misser!

 

[PaddyMonty]

What you ask is a very complex question.
The simple answer is, at the height you are jumping no it isn't.
The problem comes when riders start looking for 'the' stride an expect to see it 5 strides out. They dont and so start fiddling, shortening, lengthening all in an attempt to see it. If you dont have a consistent stride length on approach then it is impossible for you (or your horse) to see a stride but you have now made it much more difficult for the horse to help you out.

Ok so you can see the magic stride and it appears 2 strides out but it's wrong. Can you effectively change the stride in such a short distance from the fence? You see people trying to all the time. They either shorten and loose all impulsion or lenghten and flatten the horse. Neither helps.

The best piece of advice I was ever given by a top SJ pro was "stop looking for a stride, keep the rythm consistent and it will appear by magic. If you see a long one, WAIT, the perfect stride is just one more stride away"

It's far more important to get your horse to the fence with the impulsion for him to jump it than to get him to the perfect spot. Most horses can deal with being a foot or two wrong at takeoff point provided they have the impulsion (and freedom) to do so. Few can do so it presented from a shortening stride or pushed out of balance going for the long one.

Hold your rythm, relax, wait and all will be revealed.

 

[opinionuk]

What you ask is a very complex question.
The simple answer is, at the height you are jumping no it isn't.
The problem comes when riders start looking for 'the' stride an expect to see it 5 strides out. They dont and so start fiddling, shortening, lengthening all in an attempt to see it. If you dont have a consistent stride length on approach then it is impossible for you (or your horse) to see a stride but you have now made it much more difficult for the horse to help you out.

Ok so you can see the magic stride and it appears 2 strides out but it's wrong. Can you effectively change the stride in such a short distance from the fence? You see people trying to all the time. They either shorten and loose all impulsion or lenghten and flatten the horse. Neither helps.

The best piece of advice I was ever given by a top SJ pro was "stop looking for a stride, keep the rythm consistent and it will appear by magic. If you see a long one, WAIT, the perfect stride is just one more stride away"

It's far more important to get your horse to the fence with the impulsion for him to jump it than to get him to the perfect spot. Most horses can deal with being a foot or two wrong at takeoff point provided they have the impulsion (and freedom) to do so. Few can do so it presented from a shortening stride or pushed out of balance going for the long one.

Hold your rythm, relax, wait and all will be revealed.

That's exactly how I do it at the moment, she tends to take a stride out, but seems to do a better job if I don't interfere! She's really capable as she's really honest but I have no intention to jump her over 1.05m.

 

[TheMule]

I agree that if you have no ambition to progress beyond your current level, you're best to carry on with what works for you.
If you want to be able to jump bigger, more technical tracks or to educate a young horse then it's worth practising getting your eye in so you can start to see it. Everyone's eye kicks in at a different distance from the fence but unfortunately, the more you think about it, the more you're likely to panic and interfere, thus creating a problem! Using canter poles and low fences is the best way to start to develop your eye as you it doesn't matter if it goes wrong

 

[longdog]

Agree with all who say just concentrate on getting a good medium canter stride. If your horse is going into the bridle & taking you to the fence, then I would leave it to him/her. At that height, they can usually sort their own striding out. If you are in a medium length stride then you can only ever be half a stride out, which the horse can easily sort out without too much effort. Good luck!

 

[timetoride]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F84TodVzuso hopefully that link worked...

This video (and the other 2 as there are 3 parts) has some useful info and exercises (along with being funny! )

I've been to lots of different trainers over the years and they often seem to have different opinions which is not dependent on height of the jumps- the trainer I got the best results with was of the 'direction and speed is your responsibility and jumping the jump the horses' opinion and that was at 1.20 jumps. But I have also had good lessons working on distances with other trainers over smaller stuff- personally I have found a mixture of the two is best, keep a good direction, speed and balance then adjust only when necessary but by small amounts and without killing the power of the canter.

 

[glamourpuss]

I had a bit of a *lightbulb* moment with a popular jumping trainer (won't name drop). She kept telling me I had a great natural eye which I laughed at, but she pointed out that as people we walk about day to day 'seeing strides' we subconsciously lengthen/shorten ourselves to step on/off kerbs, stairs. We are able to judge distances so well that we are able to park cars in spaces. Humans have fantastic spatial & distance awareness when we just trust ourselves to let it happen.
Now I know others will say 'but, but there's a horse involved here!' But as she pointed out horses are so intune with our subtle weight adjustments that often it's these that can seem to get us to the perfect stride.
When people talk about riding a good turn or getting a good canter I actually think what they are doing is stopping themselves 'looking for a stride' & trying too hard to alter things but letting their natural distance perception kick in.

Lucinda Green claims she can't see a stride for toffee but actually she doesn't need to she trusts her distance perception enough that it isn't necessary for her to 'see a stride' ...she just seems to get to the fence perfectly

The reason I lost my nerve jumping was because I had a instructor that had me 'doing stuff' before a fence....result was an obsession on seeing a stride = making more & more adjustments = still not able to see the stride= disaster + crashing loss of nerve.

 

[ArcticFox]

What you ask is a very complex question.
The simple answer is, at the height you are jumping no it isn't.
The problem comes when riders start looking for 'the' stride an expect to see it 5 strides out. They dont and so start fiddling, shortening, lengthening all in an attempt to see it. If you dont have a consistent stride length on approach then it is impossible for you (or your horse) to see a stride but you have now made it much more difficult for the horse to help you out.

Ok so you can see the magic stride and it appears 2 strides out but it's wrong. Can you effectively change the stride in such a short distance from the fence? You see people trying to all the time. They either shorten and loose all impulsion or lenghten and flatten the horse. Neither helps.

The best piece of advice I was ever given by a top SJ pro was "stop looking for a stride, keep the rythm consistent and it will appear by magic. If you see a long one, WAIT, the perfect stride is just one more stride away"

It's far more important to get your horse to the fence with the impulsion for him to jump it than to get him to the perfect spot. Most horses can deal with being a foot or two wrong at takeoff point provided they have the impulsion (and freedom) to do so. Few can do so it presented from a shortening stride or pushed out of balance going for the long one.

Hold your rythm, relax, wait and all will be revealed.

Good advice, although I always look for a stride (having been competing at a level that needed it), however I try never to fiddle in the last 3 strides, so I do look from a distance.

I find that another useful piece of info is that you need the horse going forwards and infront of your leg. without this finding a stride and being able to adjust it is useless anyway.

 

[TarrSteps]

I had a bit of a *lightbulb* moment with a popular jumping trainer (won't name drop). She kept telling me I had a great natural eye which I laughed at, but she pointed out that as people we walk about day to day 'seeing strides' we subconsciously lengthen/shorten ourselves to step on/off kerbs, stairs. We are able to judge distances so well that we are able to park cars in spaces. Humans have fantastic spatial & distance awareness when we just trust ourselves to let it happen.
Now I know others will say 'but, but there's a horse involved here!' But as she pointed out horses are so intune with our subtle weight adjustments that often it's these that can seem to get us to the perfect stride.
When people talk about riding a good turn or getting a good canter I actually think what they are doing is stopping themselves 'looking for a stride' & trying too hard to alter things but letting their natural distance perception kick in.

Lucinda Green claims she can't see a stride for toffee but actually she doesn't need to she trusts her distance perception enough that it isn't necessary for her to 'see a stride' ...she just seems to get to the fence perfectly

The reason I lost my nerve jumping was because I had a instructor that had me 'doing stuff' before a fence....result was an obsession on seeing a stride = making more & more adjustments = still not able to see the stride= disaster + crashing loss of nerve.

This is worth rereading, along with the advice preceding about having a good canter to start off with. Someone who jumps well won't feel comfortable or able to see anything with a poor canter and so will seek to fix the situation because it feels wrong, not just as an intellectual concern. If you are running, on your own feet, towards a ditch you want to jump over and you realise you don't have enough pace you will either speed up or, if you are too close, you'll stop and represent. (We also seem to assume horses don't know even that much about their bodies, when in fact they are probably better at this stuff than we are!)

There is a bit of a dirty little secret about this though and that is practice. You can't perfect something you don't do. I come from a very "jumping culture" and it's not unusual for people to jump a few times a week, even more if they have access to jumping other horses. Few horses and riders who compete over fences don't have access to jumps on an as needed basis. I know this isn't possible for many people here but if you are only jumping at competitions or a couple of times a month there is a limit to how much you can expect to build your skills. This will change how people teach you, too. If a student is not able to jump or even work over poles regularly it's a bit pointless to send them away with exercises to do so the trainer will concentrate on the canter, rather than a mix of flat and jumping exercises.

Also, horses aren't all the same. Some have great, rhythmic canters with "a bit of knee" and are very easy to present, some experienced horses have a great eye of their own. In cases like that an instructor will be more likely to shape the training to encourage the rider to leave the horse alone. A trickier horse or one with bad habits - even if it's leaving the rails up at a low level - may need more input.

All of which isn't important to the original question, but it does mean people aren't always having the same experienced even from the same instructor.

 

[blackhor2e]

The elusive 'seeing a stride' is something I have been working on this winter with my eventer trainer.

The most useful piece of information I have learnt during this is the earlier you see the stride the better, if you start fiddling or holding back three or even four strides before a fence you interfere with your horse's natural jump. Which in turn could produce a very stiff jump or knock down (with my horse anyway).

 

[slumdog]

I've posted before about my total inability to see a stride. At the moment I'm also jumping around 1m10 but I want to progress to jumping 1.20 and my ultimate aim is the HOYS qualifiers in the summer. I'm lucky in that I have a very experienced horse who forgives my mistakes (for the most part) I have a terrible habit of taking a random pull 3 strides out and putting him in the bottom or feeling like I need to 'collect' him when in fact I'm just killing his canter. You could say I can see a stride, just the wrong one lol! I have a fab instructor though and it's work in progress, and tbf I only jumped my first British Novice in July!

If your horse has always jumped clear and you have no plans to progress, personally I wouldn't try and fix what isn't broken

 

[Jesstickle]

There is a bit of a dirty little secret about this though and that is practice. You can't perfect something you don't do. I come from a very "jumping culture" and it's not unusual for people to jump a few times a week, even more if they have access to jumping other horses. Few horses and riders who compete over fences don't have access to jumps on an as needed basis.

I certainly find I am much better (not at seeing a stride, but at keeping the canter, looking over the fence etc) if I jump at least once a week, twice is even better. Which is a pain as dragging out fences is annoying! But then I think, I wouldn't expect to ride a decent dressage test without schooling once a week, so why would I expect to jump a reasonable course without doing the same?

I can't jump at the best of times, if I don't do it for months I am truly woeful!

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Will follow with interest as I am fine with small jumps but when they go above 90cm I start to try and look for a stride and try and hook to sort it as I seem to feel the bigger jumps I have to be right but then of course I lose the canter quality and rhythm, it's annoying!

Yet was playing around over small jumps yesterday and saw one right at the bottom of the school. Frustrating much!

 

[MungoMadness]

Well here's my two pennies worth!

I can be a bit of a nervy jumper, and panic when I can't see a stride. But I've adopted something Tim Stockdale says, "canter rhythm, line, gets it right everytime" as my mantra. It helps me change my focus from the jump, to what the horse is actually doing. Then I concentrate on getting a good canter, rhythm, all the "flatwork" bits really, and as such I actually see a stride more often and sooner then when I was worrying about seeing a stride!

I think it all links in and you've just got to find your way of breaking the chain and getting in the cycle.

 

[EmmyMD]

The best advise i was ever given was to ride the canter and not the fence. Granted if you are going to want to jump big tracks then maybe the school of thought is different, but I think it's far easier for a horse to jump a fence in a good, forwards even canter than being pushed/held 5 strides out as the rider tries to see the stride.

 

[Miss.Geek]

Well here's my two pennies worth!

I can be a bit of a nervy jumper, and panic when I can't see a stride. But I've adopted something Tim Stockdale says, "canter rhythm, line, gets it right everytime" as my mantra. It helps me change my focus from the jump, to what the horse is actually doing. Then I concentrate on getting a good canter, rhythm, all the "flatwork" bits really, and as such I actually see a stride more often and sooner then when I was worrying about seeing a stride!

I think it all links in and you've just got to find your way of breaking the chain and getting in the cycle.

This makes so much sense. I do love Tim.

I have days where I will hit every fence foot perfect (our canter is rhythmical and I'm on form) and I am totally connected with my boy not to mention I can see my stride from a mile off. Other days we just won't be clicking and my main issue is I then start to really hold him hoping a stride will magically appear, it never does and the poor sod is buried at the bottom of the fence!

I think it really comes down to 3 things. 1) A good canter rhythm 2) Practice 3) Trust between the horse and rider

But that's just my way of thinking...

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Yes and no but as others have said its more important to have the horse going forwards with enough impulsion to clear the jump, with my gelding when he jumped you had to leave him to it, if you fiddled or tried to sort him he just refused point blank and I ate floor. With my mare she was the perfect horse for SJ as you could change her striding with your seat, problem is when she got excited she shortened and a four stride fence could be an eight

When I was younger getting the stride was drummed into me, now i can see them but I dont always ride for them depending on the horse.

 

[Daytona]

I think for that kinda of height all you need to do is have a nice rhythmical canter and let the fences come to you.

I do not think you need to look for a stride, once you get 1.20+ I think you need to start seeing strides and adjusting to suit.

 

[kassieg]

Theres always going to be different opinions on this 1!
Personally my view is its the riders job to get the horse to the fence (eg produce the right amount of canter & ride the correct line into & away from) its the horses job to jump the fence (eg judge the stride & produce the right height & width to get over the fence)
at the end of the day if you are always telling them what to do they are never going to help you out if you get into a sticky situation because they wont have the confidence to

 

[frannieuk]

. If you dont have a consistent stride length on approach then it is impossible for you (or your horse) to see a stride but you have now made it much more difficult for the horse to help you out.

The best piece of advice I was ever given by a top SJ pro was "stop looking for a stride, keep the rhythm consistent and it will appear by magic. If you see a long one, WAIT, the perfect stride is just one more stride away"

It's far more important to get your horse to the fence with the impulsion for him to jump it than to get him to the perfect spot. Most horses can deal with being a foot or two wrong at takeoff point provided they have the impulsion (and freedom) to do so. Few can do so it presented from a shortening stride or pushed out of balance going for the long one.

Hold your rhythm, relax, wait and all will be revealed.

This is great advice and exactly what my SJ trainer tells me.

 

[TarrSteps]

The best piece of advice I was ever given by a top SJ pro was "stop looking for a stride, keep the rythm consistent and it will appear by magic. If you see a long one, WAIT, the perfect stride is just one more stride away"

As George Morris say, "Distances are like buses. If you miss one, another will be along shortly." Or - somewhat audience dependent - "Distances are like men. If you don't like the first one you see, wait. A better one will be along soon."