Is Sharing Now All About Money?

One thing to advertise....another to actually get what you're asking for lol �� they'll soon realise it'll be semi novice kids instead of lessons or that the rider type they need, should be free to someone with the experience but not finances or time for a full loan/own horse or be paying them as a service to school their horse.
 
If I had a sharer I'd want a financial contribution. Horses are expensive to keep. If the sharer had their own horse they'd have all the costs to pay and total responsibility for it's care and health. As a sharer they just don't really have to worry about those things, sort them out or pay for them. If the sharer had their own horse they'd have to school it if they wanted a nice horse to ride, unless they went out and paid extra for a ready made horse. I just see schooling and yard jobs as part and parcel of the horse owning experience. That experience of horse owning, albeit on a part time basis and without any real responsibility, is what the sharer is paying for. If the horse is young, green or difficult, so what? Nobody is having access to my horse and sharing the horse owning experience without contributing financially. To expect otherwise is taking the mickey IMO.

I've been a sharer and paid for the shares and schooled the horses as necessary and dressed wounds, competed, mucked out, bought items of tack and equipment if needed, paid for the share during short periods of lameness or whilst I was on holiday, looked after the horse for the whole 2wks while the owner was on holiday etc. It's just part and parcel of being a sharer IMO. I enjoy schooling, the challenge of bringing on a green horse, but as a sharer I felt no obligation to do this. If all I'd wanted to do was hack or potter about in a field and made no attempt whatsoever to improve the horses, the owners would have been equally as happy. I enjoyed schooling so I was getting something out of it and I wouldn't have expected to get any of the shares for free or be paid to ride them.

I understand that you're a good rider and you're improving someone elses horse "for free" in your eyes, when you could be charging for your time, but that's not how every horse owner looking for a sharer will see it. If you want paying why don't you just start charging and do it as a job? If you want to hack/school/compete a horse for fun then pay for a share like everyone else has to and find a horse you like. Nobody forcing you to take young or green ones or ones with issues, you could look for a share on a more established horse. If you're lucky enough to find one you don't have to pay for then great, but I think you're mad to expect it, just leads to the disappointment you're finding now. Just because you've got skills doesn't mean anyone should feel they have to give you a free horse to ride.
 
Different agreements suit different people.

I'm a sharer and a sharee (it's complicated). With my share horse, I pay riding costs (shoes, saddle fittings, hard feed as he wouldn't have it if he wasn't working etc) and owner pays for his "keep" so livery, hay, bedding etc. I do him 3/4 days a week - depending on whether his owner is working a Saturday or not and without that she'd have to have him in full livery due to kids and full time demanding job. In return I get to compete Mr Perfect so it's a win win.

With my horse, I've done different things depending on the situation. The first one was a short term arrangement as I was really busy and an acquaintance (now friend) had unwittingly bought a BOGOF so had nothing to ride. She paid for shoes as she insisted on paying for something although I was happy just to get him ridden.

The 2nd was after my boy had to stop jumping. I started sharing my share horse and looking for a sharer to keep him busy. She was with us 6 years and paid £60 a month for 3 days a week. On her 2 weekdays days she had to muck out in winter and get him and my share horse in. We did the chores between us on Saturdays. At the time I was a bit stretched so the extra cash was handy and she wasn't doing anything to improve him so I felt justified in asking for something. She was obviously happy with this as she stayed with us for 6 years until she moved away.

The most recent one didn't pay anything. She's a Kiwi over here for a few years (about to go back later this month) and I stumbled across her on here. I was looking for a new sharer but A wasn't getting enough work so I offered her the chance to ride a bit until I found one. The moment I met her I didn't bother to carry on looking. She's a qualified instructor back home and from the first day I met her she has given me more than money ever could. She's improved my horse no end, given me some lessons on my share horse to the point where I'm about to give elementary a go. She doesn't have transport so it's been limited to when she can get a lift with me, so I've lost out on having him mucked out for a day or two a week as well as the cash, but I've gained so much more.
 
I think it depends on the riders experience, skill and qualifications.

I wouldn't expect to charge a rider who was effectively improving my horse, which the average owner would usually have to pay for anyway, plus it would add value to the horse overall.

I do think though that many shares are offered for purely financial reasons; you only need to look on this forum for sharing to be put forwards as an idea for someone struggling financially, in which case the owner will probably be happy to just have somebody competent enough to hack out for exercise.

I think the best way is to probably advertise your services for a fee, then you are more likely to get the sort of horse you want to work with.
 
S&S, I think you miss my point. As I said, happy to pay to share an established horse. Just very surprised people would buy a smart horse but young & inexperienced (example 1) and then offer it for share asking for financial contribution. If the only way they can afford the horse is to share then fine but I feel the horse is likely to suffer as a result.
Second example, they just want someone to sort the horse out for them. I'd lay 10:1 the horse will be up for sale as soon as it's issues are overcome. How fair is that on a paying sharer?

My surprise is the type of horse offered for share wanting a contribution, not wanting a contribution per se.
If I had a 5 yo warmblood then I would certainly be very careful about it's early education and not be looking for a paying sharer. I'd want someone more experienced than myself and I certainly wouldn't expect them to pay me.

No I don't think I'm mad to expect to find a horse to work on FOC. I've spent the last 15 years competing for owners at zero cost to myself. In all cases the owners got as much out of it as I did, increased value of horse, a more experienced horse the owner could then compete themselves or just the fun of watching their horse compete at a level the owners weren't happy to do themselves.
 
PaddyMonty said:
S&S, I think you miss my point. As I said, happy to pay to share an established horse. Just very surprised people would buy a smart horse but young & inexperienced (example 1) and then offer it for share asking for financial contribution. If the only way they can afford the horse is to share then fine but I feel the horse is likely to suffer as a result.
Second example, they just want someone to sort the horse out for them. I'd lay 10:1 the horse will be up for sale as soon as it's issues are overcome. How fair is that on a paying sharer?

My surprise is the type of horse offered for share wanting a contribution, not wanting a contribution per se.
If I had a 5 yo warmblood then I would certainly be very careful about it's early education and not be looking for a paying sharer. I'd want someone more experienced than myself and I certainly wouldn't expect them to pay me.

No I don't think I'm mad to expect to find a horse to work on FOC. I've spent the last 15 years competing for owners at zero cost to myself. In all cases the owners got as much out of it as I did, increased value of horse, a more experienced horse the owner could then compete themselves or just the fun of watching their horse compete at a level the owners weren't happy to do themselves.
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not missing your point at all, just happen to think you're being unreasonable.

If you're happy to pay to share an established horse then why not just go and do that, instead of repeatedly posting on this forum that you can't find any free horses to ride?

Your example 1 - Surprised people would buy a horse when they can't really afford it? I think they can afford it but with the extra help from a sharer they can afford to pay for the nice little luxury extras instead of keeping horse on a shoe string budget.

Your example 2 - I think my reply above explains why it's fair on sharers, but I'll try again. They get the pleasure of psuedo "horse owning" on a part time basis, without any real responsibility or financial commitment. All they pay is a small weekly fee, at a rate that's much less than they'd pay if they went to a riding school where the experience would be nothing remotely resembling horse ownership. It's not unfair if the horse is sold after they've schooled it because they're not paying to buy the horse, they're contributing towards it's keep for the period of time that they're having access to the horse. The owner still owns it and can do what they like with it. Sharers are priviledged to be allowed access to someone else's horse for such a nominal fee, they shouldn't be bitching about the conditions. If sharers get tired of schooling horses and not getting to enjoy the final result because it's been sold, the option is there for them to go out and buy their own horse instead. Or to choose to share horses that are already well schooled, if they can find such a creature up for share.

I just think some people expect "something for nothing" - you think that person is the owner getting "free schooling", I think that person is the sharer who thinks that because of their skills they should get to share a horse and play at horse ownership a few days a week for free.
 
PaddyMonty said:
I've seen a few like that on Equine Adverts but as you say, not in my area. That one would be perfect as I only want to ride weekdays. Weekends are spent on my boat.
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Paddy, if only you'd move to the better 'Hampton, further South, I have a lovely 5yo that wants more work during the week! Its also much better for boating as there is alot of water near by! How much boating can you get done in a land locked county?
 
The real problem as I see it is that you're not really looking for a share horse at all. Which is why you have trouble finding what you want. You're looking in the wrong place and targeting the wrong people. For some reason you don't seem to want to be paid to ride, maybe because you want to compete and don't just want schooling work? You basically remind me of competition pro's who have horses given to them to compete and it's their full time job, except you don't seem to want it as a full time job. Or perhaps you're not competing at a level where the prize money would fund the horses and give you enough money to live on too.

I know you've advertised before with no luck but why don't you try again, this time not asking for a share and not on Preloved but somewhere more competition type people hang out. Advertise yourself as somebody wanting to compete to a reasonable level and willing to school the horse on until it's at a suitable level to do that. Then you get the people who are looking for free schooling and not a sharer. Maybe have some sort of legal contract drawn up where you agree to school the horse for nothing (and maybe look after it a few days a week if you like that side of things too) for, say, a year - and in return they agree to let you compete the horse for a year afterwards. With the condition that if they decide to end the arrangement early they have to pay you "X" amount per hour for all the schooling to date. Employers used to do this with people on training schemes for professional qualifications which are funded by the employer, the employee has to agree to work there for a year or so after the training ends (often on a fairly rubbish wage), otherwise they have to refund the employer the amount paid in tuition fees.

That way you can happily ignore all the offers to break and school all the 13hh coloured 2yr olds without feeling rude, because you've made it clear in the advert that's not what you're about.
 
LeannePip said:
Paddy, if only you'd move to the better 'Hampton, further South, I have a lovely 5yo that wants more work during the week! Its also much better for boating as there is alot of water near by! How much boating can you get done in a land locked county?
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No No NO. That would mean sailing in the Solent. Much prefer peaceful east coast despite the 5 hour round trip. Just means I have to go for ALL weekend, not just a few hours. :D
 
S&S, yep you are right that I'm not really after a share horse although happy to look after a horse the days I ride.
When I advertised previously it wasn't for a share, just offering to school (flat,SJ or XC) for free. Competing was a bonus.
I did spend some time a few years back being paid to school and instruct but I just prefer to keep my job and my hobby completely separate. One I do for fun, the other pays the bills.
Can you suggest anywhere other than Preloved, equine adverts etc to advertise?
Do you really think advertising for a paying sharer for 17hh 5yo warmblood is a good idea? Genuinely interested.
 
PaddyMonty said:
No No NO. That would mean sailing in the Solent. Much prefer peaceful east coast despite the 5 hour round trip. Just means I have to go for ALL weekend, not just a few hours. :D
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Ahh i see, your a Sailor - not much fun that in the Solent - my Dad is a motor boat man and he (as would mum and I) would love a new buddy *so we could play more horses at the weekend and not feel guilty about not joining him* . . .
 
But surely a share means you would pay part of the livery/feed/all other costs pro rata to the days you have horse?
 
PaddyMonty said:
S&S, yep you are right that I'm not really after a share horse although happy to look after a horse the days I ride.
When I advertised previously it wasn't for a share, just offering to school (flat,SJ or XC) for free. Competing was a bonus.
I did spend some time a few years back being paid to school and instruct but I just prefer to keep my job and my hobby completely separate. One I do for fun, the other pays the bills.
Can you suggest anywhere other than Preloved, equine adverts etc to advertise?
Do you really think advertising for a paying sharer for 17hh 5yo warmblood is a good idea? Genuinely interested.
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No I don't know anywhere to advertise sorry can't help there.

Yes of course it's a good idea, if the warmblood owner wants a sharer. Not for me, I train my horses and want it done well not some numpty messing it up. But not everyone is like that. There are plenty with no real interest in schooling who are happy as long as it turns left with the left rein, right with the right rein, stops with both and goes faster from the leg. So they don't care about training the horse or who rides it really. People like that often think well I only ride 3 days a week, so may as well have a sharer for the other days, because why not? Then there's those who only want to hack so if they can find a sharer who is either a good rider and will school the horse by default simply by being on it's back or someone who likes doing a bit of schooling, they see it as a bonus because then they don't have to do the boring stuff, they're often not too bothered about the training methods used having little interest in that side of things and being esctatically happy if the rider trains the horse to tuck it's nose in whilst it goes along. Or those who like to school and want a sharer to hack because they think hacking is dull but the horse would benefit from some down time, they're less bothered about the quality of the riding because it's "only hacking". Shares can work out well for people with these types of attitude and sometimes the horse even benefits from it, if the sharer is better than the owner or if the horse is better for being ridden daily than once a week or better for having a break from arena work. It's not unusual for someone with no competition ambitions, or sometimes any real skill or ability, to buy a smart looking warmblood or TB for basic activities just because they like the look of it. Or someone who wants to compete but not put any of the hard work in so is happy to share with someone who will. So yes, not what I'd do or want for my youngster but for some people with different priorities to me it works out well and it's their horse, their life. As for the payment part, most people if they have the choice of getting money for something or not getting money for it, will choose the money. And paying sharers are generally more likely to turn up, because they want to get their moneys worth, that's just reality.
 
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The people I know who are good riders and will offer their time for free have no end of offers to ride. They don't need to go looking. So why don't you use your contacts and find something that way.
 
PM ,you need a friend that does FB I can't get my brain round it at all but I have a friend who is really in FB ,increasing FB is where things like this circulate .
Or are you really thinking this through are their any pro yards for whom you could ride or smart full livery yards they might well want a good rider weekdays .
Perhaps you know the person already try to think outside the box someone with the breeding bug but too long in the tooth for the test piloting would be ideal .
What's to lose if you try a ad just times answering lots of silly phone calls .
I hope you find something soon.
Just adding I work hard to make sure FYF doesn't get poached lots of people offer him riding .
 
I wouldn't put a young horse needing training up for a share. I would assume I would need a higher standard of rider and would expect to pay. When my retired mare (fine to hack, no competing) then she had sharers to help cover her costs. They had a rock solid hack kept on part livery and she took care of them. Interesting thread!
 
I can understand someone with a young horse looking for a sharer if something like pregnancy or injury disrupted their plans and they wanted to keep the horse in work but didn't have the money to pay for schooling. In that case you'd just hope someone good came along who could continue the horses training well, or as well as could be. I'd completely understand why a sharer would pay, even if they were improving the horse - you'd have no horse to ride unless owner paid farrier, feed etc. I'd be delighted to contribute financially if I found a horse that was genuinely a nice project, just for my own satisfaction, regardless of the owners overall gain.

I ride out nice horses for a breeding yard up the road for people I met on ride-outs near me, everything seems to be through word of mouth here. I just get paid in wine and lunches and am happy as the horses are super fun. Any good riders around here have waiting lists of horses people want them to ride. But they are niche riders, not just vague 'schooling' riders - it seems they get labelled as people who have specific skills for bringing horses on in an particular area.

Is it a case of you falling between two stools - you have the skills to bring super horses on to high levels, but what good is that if you can't back it up to the owners with a commitment to compete at weekends etc.? From the posts I can't figure out what you want fully? People with really good horses at a high level know how to use them and their time.

If you are only free during the day is your best bet to put an ad on an affiliated forum relating to whatever discipline you like, saying you are available to keep horses ticking over during the week and can compete occasionally if needed? It doesn't sound like your average horse owner is your target market, you'l just end up wading through pleas from owners to stop their horse napping.
 
I agree it sounds like you are not really looking for a 'share' as such. I had a teenager share my pony at one point, and she was expected to make a small financial contribution. But in return for that she got nearly unlimited riding on an established schoolmaster pony and only needed to do a few minor chores on the day she rode. We also gave her lifts to competitions, Pony Club and hunting in our lorry and she had access to our private sandschool, jumps and excellent hacking. So I think she got a fair deal, as she was intending to take a pony on full loan otherwise, which would have worked out far more expensive.

I have also had the opportunity to 'ride for free' when I didn't have a suitable riding horse, but never called this a share and it was a more informal, less committed mutually beneficial arrangement. I do agree with others that these arrangements do tend to happen by word of mouth though.

As for offering a 5 year old warmblood for share, it does depend on what the horse is actually like and what the owner expects from the share. If it is a fairly sane horse that can be hacked and ridden in a school without trying to kill you, even if it lacks a little finesses, then the owner is quite likely to find people wanting to pay for the privilege. However, if the horse is more challenging or if the owner is specifying a certain standard of rider who can actively improve the horse's schooling, then wanting someone to pay for a share may be rather over-optimistic.
 
My sharer is much less experienced than I am but is doing me a favour by hacking my lad out twice during the week when I am stuck in work and freeing up those 2 evenings for me. I don't charge her for the privilege I appreciate the help too much!
 
I also see so many ads round here looking for sharers which should read "want someone to train my horse and pay me to do it"!

I have had an informal share of a friends horse in the past which was hacking out with her once or twice a week while she rode another and schooling one night a week. They were kept at home though so no livery bill to cover. I helped out with chores whenever I was there and paid for the shoes of my share horse (£60 every 6 weeks) which I thought was pretty fair.
 
I'm seriously going to kidnap you one day put you through a boil wash and stick you on my 11.2

FB is the best place for this to be honest, I see plenty on our local pages not necessarily all suitable but there are some, The last competent rider I saw advertise looking for free riding had plenty of offers. Have you considered offering to ride at producers yards? there are some around here
 
Whoopit said:
So people who don't have their own horse (or aren't near them) should get to ride someone else's horse for free because they consider themselves an above average rider?
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Well yes I'd say so - although I think it has to be the judgement of the owner of the horse as to whether you are good enough or not.

It is fair when it is a mutually beneficial arrangement. Most people would happily pay an instructor to school or train their horse, if they were short on time, or lacked experience or confidence. If instead of paying, you knew someone experienced willing to do it for free, then you'd benefit from that arrangement - as would they.

Sharing is two way - it's an exchange of time, experience (horse and rider), and money. It has to be fair on both sides. That doesn't always mean money needs to exchange hands for it to be fair.
 
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