Is she pregnant?

Congratulations - it sounds like you have lovely homes waiting for the puppies!

Good luck and would love to see pictures of pups as and when.
 
twiggy2 said:
those 2 pups don't sound like they have much quality of life from what you have written.
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Absolutely, it is odd that you feel they are OK?

I'm sure if OPs litter was as disasterous as yours she would have any puppies that were struggling pts. TBH though most healthy cross bred bitches, like lurchers, spit out pups quite happily. I think they will be a nice cross. What breed are yours?
 
In answer to the person who asked if vets would Spey a birch in pup, then the answer is yes. I work in a vets and we do Spey in pup bitches, we even did one at 8wks, she was rescued by rescue society for her breed and they had no homes for a litter of puppies. At about 4wks of gestation they resemble tadpoles and the butch is Speyed as normal, at 8wks they were fully formed just hairless, each pup was euthanized and the bitch speyed. The bitch had a normal recovery, they don't think about life like we do and being speyed while pregnant would have had no affect on her.
 
NellRosk said:
When my crossbreed had pups I don't think she noticed it was happening! Literally just walked across my room and puppies fell out of her. There was no effort involved :eek3:
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OMG...you are here on AAD and you ADMIT that you had pups from a crossbred bitch!!

LOL.
x
 
redstar said:
we do Spey in pup bitches, we even did one at 8wks, she was rescued by rescue society for her breed and they had no homes for a litter of puppies. At about 4wks of gestation they resemble tadpoles and the butch is Speyed as normal, at 8wks they were fully formed just hairless, each pup was euthanized and the bitch speyed .
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I think that this is morally very, very wrong. I would seriously question the ethics of a vet who can cut into a bitch and kill fully formed puppies for convenience.
Barbaric.
 
Patterdale said:
I think that this is morally very, very wrong. I would seriously question the ethics of a vet who can cut into a bitch and kill fully formed puppies for convenience.
Barbaric.
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I think it is much the best for a rescue bitch that has no known history, they have no idea what she was bred with, and there are hundreds of unwanted dogs already, why add more? Far removed from what OP is ending up with as it sounds as though she will follow through her pups lifes.
 
Clodagh said:
I think it is much the best for a rescue bitch that has no known history, they have no idea what she was bred with, and there are hundreds of unwanted dogs already, why add more? Far removed from what OP is ending up with as it sounds as though she will follow through her pups lifes.
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Exactly this ^^^^ why would we take in a rescue bitch with a belly full of pups and allow them to join a world where their mothers life was at risk!!! and she herself should have been in a yellow bag!. There is more to being successful at watching a bitch give birth and care for pups and then find homes, it's whether those homes are for life and those dogs don't end up in pounds or on in a yellow bag themselves. I wonder if we think of the vet when they are killing a perfectly healthy dog just because the pounds and rescues are brimming with unwanted dogs. I know I would rather end a life before there literally is one than when the dog is healthy and strapping and full of life at a year old.
 
Patterdale said:
I think that this is morally very, very wrong. I would seriously question the ethics of a vet who can cut into a bitch and kill fully formed puppies for convenience.
Barbaric.
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Clodagh said:
I think it is much the best for a rescue bitch that has no known history, they have no idea what she was bred with, and there are hundreds of unwanted dogs already, why add more? Far removed from what OP is ending up with as it sounds as though she will follow through her pups lifes.
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From two posters, both of whom post and generally make perfect sense, and we have totally opposing views. I agree with both of you, and that's not an intentionally perverse or fence sitting stance, it's just that you both make valid points. Were I a vet, then I would have serious reservations over any operation of convenience, but then is that what it is? Is it a convenience, or is it a just and humane balancing of the facts, with a following event? Difficult, but for me, Clodagh's argument leads, but only just!

Alec.
 
CAYLA said:
........ I wonder if we think of the vet when they are killing a perfectly healthy dog just because the pounds and rescues are brimming with unwanted dogs. I know I would rather end a life before there literally is one than when the dog is healthy and strapping and full of life at a year old.
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..... and of course, where is the justice in rearing a puppy to have it end up in a kennel, and from there to be put down, whilst it's still only young? What was the point of rearing the poor creature, in the first place? Perhaps the decision isn't so difficult, after all.

Alec.
 
I'm afraid there are plenty of vets who do neuter pregnant bitches patterdale.I do a few a month depending on circumstances..mostly in early pregnancy. our practice has a cut off point, thank god!nothing worse than killing moving pups...but then again I do that to the unwanted pups all the time for the dog warden so whats the difference? that the didnt get the 6 months of neglect and time straying and dodging cars in between?

the scenarios that drive me mad are scenarios like the one above and the one im about to explain...
having to put down healthy 16 week old kittens because the rescue has lost foster space or cannot take on more cats as they have no homes to go to.but the same rescue taking in pregnant stray cats and having issues deciding on what stance they take...so deciding while the cat was already under anaesthetic that actually minds have been changed it was wrong to spay a pregnant cat ...meaning that the cat goes home to have kits while still healing from a laparotomy , that op needs to be repeated in a few weeks and the kittens she produces are joining a system already under to much strain and take up potential homes that the kittens we are killing could go to.
Which do you try to prioritise? which one do you feel worse about killing....some days its hard to know.

it happens more with the old and teenage dogs than pups..pups are cute,people want them and respond to the facebook appeals for foster homes. .the older Dogs or teenage hooligans not so appealing. if they are physically broken enough someone might feel the need to want to save them though strangely enough.

in an ideal world where people acted responsibly and took care of their pets and if keeping them entire monitored them while on heat then this wouldn't be a problem, we wouldn't get many accidental litters. .but we dont live in that world.we live in the one where pups are already being dumped after Xmas as the shinyness of the new toy has worn off and where the rescues are full beyond capacity all of the time.where all sick stray kittens handed in to vets,that the good samaritians cannot take on, are pts automatically there are no homes for the healthy let alone the sick.
hard decisions need to be made in this world.

this world does not need unwanted extra puppies because the bitches owners didnt bother to keep her confined during heat or get her injected post mating.they need to rehome the little blighters already in the system and to teach people that neutering is a better option than bringing 10 more little crossbreed pups into a world where no homes are waiting...because the adorable pups become big dogs and it id very very difficult to find a responsible homes for large breed crossbreeds..esp once the puppy cuteness wears off. Every dog neutered reduces the amount of potential unwanted pups.
if the pups were wanted and much anticipated pups who had good responsible homes and happy lives to look forward to then the bitch would not be on the table in the first place.

Neutering a bitch early in pregnancy is actually fairly easy to get used to when you look at the wider picture.

sigh can you tell I had a bad day at work and this hit a nerve?
 
Aru have you seen the piece apparently written by a vet circulating on facebook, very moving.
My daughter fostered a lot of cats and kittens that there were no places for at her last practice, she had 10 at one point! They were all neutered before they went to new homes, the only ones I had mixed feelings about were orphan kittens who she helped hand rear. Part of me thought that maybe they should have been pts rather than reared , but they did all find homes easily.
 
MurphysMinder said:
Aru have you seen the piece apparently written by a vet circulating on facebook, very moving.
My daughter fostered a lot of cats and kittens that there were no places for at her last practice, she had 10 at one point! They were all neutered before they went to new homes, the only ones I had mixed feelings about were orphan kittens who she helped hand rear. Part of me thought that maybe they should have been pts rather than reared , but they did all find homes easily.
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I've posted the article in a separate thread as didn't want to hijack this one.
 
We would not spay and in-pup bitch. We spay cats that are pregnant as they don't seem to mind. But Bitches do actually have hormone release and do know that they have lost their puppies.
I agree, as a nurse that healthy puppies being pts even if they haven't been born yet is just as bad as putting healthy live dogs to sleep. Completely barbaric and wrong.
 
I still have to disagree but I respect all opinions, working in rescue and also seeing the veterinary side also (so yes I do assist) in in pup spays.... why on earth would we as a rescue want to add to the numbers in this hideous society where animals are being discarded like an old rag, where dogs every day of next week and the week after will be pts by lethal injection from the ages of months to years, fully aware and already gone through the stress of being impounded for a period before the end comes.
We have seen no issues, mental or physical from bitches or cats after in kitten/pup spays.
Like I said I can accept a life lost before it begins than a life taken away when the animal is aware and have lived through some hideous stress and cruelty in the meantime.
Allowing a bitch to birth that is on the conveyer belt to death herself is imo unacceptable.
and what Aru said (those are my reasons)
 
CAYLA said:
.......

Allowing a bitch to birth that is on the conveyer belt to death herself is imo unacceptable.
.......
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I agree with you, and would you say that a pregnant bitch which was already on the conveyor belt, rather than suffering an op, would be better off despatched, and so saving the need for an op and then a subsequent LI? Serious question.

Alec.
 
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