Is she too thin?

[AshTay]

Given her issues, I think she looks fine.

I'm in a similar boat with my mare (who may or may not have similar issues..). I had vet last weekend as she was mildly colicky and I asked the vet about her weight as I was getting similar comments from others on the yard. She said that she likes to see horses with condition score 2.5-3 (on 0 to 5 scale) and that on most yards most horses are 3.5-4. She estimated my mare would be 2.5 and that she'd like to see a little more on her but not to worry and to do it slowly. She actually looks ok in her neck and shoulders but her quarters look very poor and she is ribby.

 

[stencilface]

She looks ok to me, how old is she?

Our 29yo TB is still hanging on to some tufts of his coat, and I'm waiting for it to all go before I give him another bath - weather looks good for this weekend. Ours has not been in work for 6 years + and would be ribby even if he was obese, thats just the way he is. Currently he's a bit light, but putting weight on all the time with the grass, and I won't be putting a pic up Old people look saggy and worn round the edges, as long as they're happy and healthy within reason, why shouldn't horses imho

 

[Kallibear]

She looks fine for a metabolic horse. You cannot condition score one in the same way you would a normal horse.

When you say 'footy' is she just sensitive or is she actually sore? Because EMS ponies need as much work as you can give then. The burning of calories through exercise helps reset their metabolism. If she's just sensitive I'd have her in boots and pads (even over shoes if required) and get her working as much as she can cope with.

 

[lottiepony]

I think your doing a grand job managing her weight as her issues do make it so difficult! I'm currently trying to get my mare's weight down (you might have seen my other posts) and slowly her fat pads are reducing but it's so hard as she's allowed so little and you can help but feel mean! For what she has I think she looks fine and must say looks a real sweetheart!

 

[Wagtail]

Given her issues, I think she looks fine.

I'm in a similar boat with my mare (who may or may not have similar issues..). I had vet last weekend as she was mildly colicky and I asked the vet about her weight as I was getting similar comments from others on the yard. She said that she likes to see horses with condition score 2.5-3 (on 0 to 5 scale) and that on most yards most horses are 3.5-4. She estimated my mare would be 2.5 and that she'd like to see a little more on her but not to worry and to do it slowly. She actually looks ok in her neck and shoulders but her quarters look very poor and she is ribby.

It is definitely better healthwise for them to be a little on the lean side than too fat. I hope you get to the bottom of what is causing the colic symptoms.

She looks ok to me, how old is she?

Our 29yo TB is still hanging on to some tufts of his coat, and I'm waiting for it to all go before I give him another bath - weather looks good for this weekend. Ours has not been in work for 6 years + and would be ribby even if he was obese, thats just the way he is. Currently he's a bit light, but putting weight on all the time with the grass, and I won't be putting a pic up Old people look saggy and worn round the edges, as long as they're happy and healthy within reason, why shouldn't horses imho

She's not as old as your boy. She is 19. As you say, just like people, they do get more saggy with age.

She looks fine for a metabolic horse. You cannot condition score one in the same way you would a normal horse.

When you say 'footy' is she just sensitive or is she actually sore? Because EMS ponies need as much work as you can give then. The burning of calories through exercise helps reset their metabolism. If she's just sensitive I'd have her in boots and pads (even over shoes if required) and get her working as much as she can cope with.

I think she had a mild bout of laminitis as she had pulses for a few days. I have booted her up in the field now, so will see if this helps her at all. It is only on the stones and hard mud that she is sensitive. Perhaps all the wet weather we had softened up her feet?

I think your doing a grand job managing her weight as her issues do make it so difficult! I'm currently trying to get my mare's weight down (you might have seen my other posts) and slowly her fat pads are reducing but it's so hard as she's allowed so little and you can help but feel mean! For what she has I think she looks fine and must say looks a real sweetheart!

It's been a long job. She weigh taped at 608 kg when she first got laminitis in December 2011. She didn't LOOK fat, but was carrying lots of fat pads. I never really noticed until it was too late as it was winter and I wasn't worrying about weight so much. So she has lost 130 kg on the weight tape over the past 18 months. I don't want any more off her now.

Considering all the comments, good and bad, I have decided to up her micronized linseed from one mug to two. Hopefully that will help with her condition without triggering a lami attack.

 

[lottiepony]

Considering all the comments, good and bad, I have decided to up her micronized linseed from one mug to two. Hopefully that will help with her condition without triggering a lami attack.[/QUOTE]

Do you find the micronized linseed works and is okay to feed as from here on in my girls diet has completely changed and I'm keen to get something in her which will maintain her condition but you obv don't need much of, as come winter she is not a good doer as such.

 

[Wagtail]

Do you find the micronized linseed works and is okay to feed as from here on in my girls diet has completely changed and I'm keen to get something in her which will maintain her condition but you obv don't need much of, as come winter she is not a good doer as such.

I know the pictures I posted are not a good advert, but since being on the linseed her coat has never looked better (apart from right now and that is honestly just down to the fact that she is shedding her last few dead hairs). I have also put my TB on it, and another mare at the yard (the one that has her full summer coat). She looks absolutely magnificent. Her coat is brighter than it's ever been. Micronized linseed is excellent for putting on condition, and for hooves and coat too.

 

[SpanishNeddy]

To me, she looks a bit under weight. Just my opinion. I do not know much about her health issues though and I also like them slightly over than under personally.

Could you not give her a vit/min supplement. I have put my boy on 365 Complete (I have just started a new thread showing before and after pictures!) and his condition is amazing now

 

[Wagtail]

To me, she looks a bit under weight. Just my opinion. I do not know much about her health issues though and I also like them slightly over than under personally.

Could you not give her a vit/min supplement. I have put my boy on 365 Complete (I have just started a new thread showing before and after pictures!) and his condition is amazing now

Thanks. I used to be like you and like them to be around the 3 - 3.5 condition score mark. Now since seeing the devastating laminitis in action, and how I could perhaps of prevented it, I have changed my mind. If she wasn't always teetering on the edge of a laminitis attack, I would say that yes, she is too thin. She certainly doesn't want to lose any more. Regarding the vitamin and mineral supplement, she is already on a very good one (Pro hoof balancer) as well as there being a full balancer contained in her feed already (she is fed Pure feeds Easy).

 

[Wagtail]

This is her just before her first ever laminitis attack, and weighing in at 608 kg. She is holding herself nicely, but you can see her cresty neck (bear in mind she had been out of work and retired for three years, so it isn't muscle), and the fat pads around her shoulders and on top of her loins.



And for comparison:

 

[SpanishNeddy]

Ah see there to me she looks just right

One of my boys is on a diet at the moment, he has for the first time in 3 years got porky! my new one could do with loosing few pounds too, but he is ok I would say.

 

[Mocha]

She looks perfect considering - and if she hadn't held her coat with the cushings, she would look a whole lot better and you probably wouldn't be getting the comments!

Thanks. I used to be like you and like them to be around the 3 - 3.5 condition score mark. Now since seeing the devastating laminitis in action, and how I could perhaps of prevented it, I have changed my mind. If she wasn't always teetering on the edge of a laminitis attack, I would say that yes, she is too thin. She certainly doesn't want to lose any more.

Refreshingly honest post -I actually started reading the thread worried about the replies you would receive! Sick of reading posts where people are keeping their horses knowingly slightly above 'good condition' because they 'like' them that way, that is all it takes for a lot of horses in the longterm.

 

[Wagtail]

Ah see there to me she looks just right

She did to me too, at the time. Now I cringe. It's amazing what nearly losing a much loved horse because of laminitis does to change your perspectives. I have had many horses in the past, the same weight, and never had a problem before.

 

[Wagtail]

She looks perfect considering - and if she hadn't held her coat with the cushings, she would look a whole lot better and you probably wouldn't be getting the comments!



Refreshingly honest post -I actually started reading the thread worried about the replies you would receive! Sick of reading posts where people are keeping their horses knowingly slightly above 'good condition' because they 'like' them that way, that is all it takes for a lot of horses in the longterm.

I have had a massive wake up call! I have looked back at old summer photographs of her and realise now she was too fat. Never bigger than the one I have posted above, but when you think about the strain on her feet of carrying around an extra 100kg of weight, it makes you think. Add to that the fact that I am 64 kg on top...

 

[JFTDWS]

No, no, the latter pics are a drastic improvement.

It must be kept in mind that she will lack muscle due to lack of work, and her coat will look rubbish at the moment, due to the EMS. I really wouldn't worry too much about her being too thin

 

[Mocha]

I have had a massive wake up call! I have looked back at old summer photographs of her and realise now she was too fat. Never bigger than the one I have posted above, but when you think about the strain on her feet of carrying around an extra 100kg of weight, it makes you think. Add to that the fact that I am 64 kg on top...

Not to mention the multiplying factor when it comes to impact on the joints. Looking at the really unusual fatty deposit on her loin (!) you would wonder if she was predisposed at any rate - but no harm keeping on the safe side anyway.

 

[mjcssjw2]

Wagtail, this is a good thread. my horse has just had his first attack of Lam and the vet strongly suspects EMS/IR, one thing worries me, you think too much hay has caused it, I was (possibly wrongly) assuming he would be ok with the soaked hay am i incorrect?
Was going to get it tested, but it seems its about 75 pounds so was going to get the xrays done first (400 pounds)
Are you able to turn your horse out at all? Mine doesn't seem to be able to tolerate any grass at the moment. Not sure if I will every dare try him in grass again. I was a bit paranoid about this at first, but as you say this is a life threatening issue.
Stunnungly for a stressy horse he is very happy in with his haynet and on the concrete yard during the day.
He is like your before picture though in terms of weight - so maybe I need to try and get more off him, although I am able to work him it boots at the moment - so that should help.

 

[Wagtail]

Wagtail, this is a good thread. my horse has just had his first attack of Lam and the vet strongly suspects EMS/IR, one thing worries me, you think too much hay has caused it, I was (possibly wrongly) assuming he would be ok with the soaked hay am i incorrect?
Was going to get it tested, but it seems its about 75 pounds so was going to get the xrays done first (400 pounds)
Are you able to turn your horse out at all? Mine doesn't seem to be able to tolerate any grass at the moment. Not sure if I will every dare try him in grass again. I was a bit paranoid about this at first, but as you say this is a life threatening issue.
Stunnungly for a stressy horse he is very happy in with his haynet and on the concrete yard during the day.
He is like your before picture though in terms of weight - so maybe I need to try and get more off him, although I am able to work him it boots at the moment - so that should help.

It is a strange one with my mare, as every single lami attack has come on after hay, haylage or even soaked hay, and not grass. For her, this seems to be the trigger. I do however put a grazing muzzle on her all the time she is out. At the minute she goes in the field from 8.30 am until 5.30 pm. She then spends the rest of her time with the other lami prone horse in the sand turnout. If he looks like my mare in the 'before' pic, then yes, you need to get weight off him. Good luck. It really is a horrible disease to have to deal with.

 

[Wagtail]

No, no, the latter pics are a drastic improvement.

It must be kept in mind that she will lack muscle due to lack of work, and her coat will look rubbish at the moment, due to the EMS. I really wouldn't worry too much about her being too thin

Thank you. I will post up pics after her summer coat comes through to prove to people she doesn't really look so bad!

Not to mention the multiplying factor when it comes to impact on the joints. Looking at the really unusual fatty deposit on her loin (!) you would wonder if she was predisposed at any rate - but no harm keeping on the safe side anyway.

Yes, that is quite a fatty deposit! But it came on so gradually, can you believe that I didn't notice it at the time? She was retired and I am busy with the liveries etc. Bless her. She got her needs looked after and her cuddles, but it's amazing when you are not spending time working a horse, what you don't see.

 

[CobsGalore]

I can see she was quite porky in the first picture, and I agree she looks better in the more recent one, but I definitely wouldn't have guessed you got 130kg off her!

Pictures can be so deceiving though, and she is holding herself nicely in the first.

 

[Wagtail]

Okay the sun was out today. So for those who say she has no shine, she may not be the picture of health, but considering she is in the worst time of coat shed, it isn't so bad. Will still post up more when she has her summer coat through:



I have upped her linseed now and am giving her an hour without her muzzle. I am now beginning to wonder if her soreness was maybe her shoulder injury. I had started to do more than just 15 minutes walk and was trotting. She had the odd canter too. Her laminitis is usually worse in her right fore, but she injured her left shoulder 3 years ago which ended her career, and she is currently about one tenth lame in trot left fore. No difference on hard or soft ground. I will wait a few days and then take it really slowly with her again. Just in walk for a few weeks before stepping up the pace.

 

[blackcob]

She looks very similar to how my EMS (but not Cushings, yet, though aged 13 it's always in the back of my mind) horse looked a few months after her first and only laminitis attack.

She'd been on a crash diet to get the weight off her, on long term box rest as her feet were wrecked almost beyond saving (pedal bones came clean through the soles ) and her pulses came up again at the slightest provocation. This after 12 years of being a perfectly healthy good do-er, always well covered, blatantly fat in the summer - it eventually just caught up with her and bam, insulin resistance, laminitis, the works.

The turning point came when she was sound enough to exercise again, for her exercise really is the key to management and when she's ridden regularly she can even be turned out on grass for long periods without any ill effect. She looks a lot less oddly shaped since resuming work, though she's still ribby in comparison to a 'normal' horse the rest of her is sleek and shiny and the muscle is building up where fat pads used to be. We're even thinking about weaning her off metformin.

In short, it's harder to see beyond a retained coat on a dull day which is why people may think she looks poorer than she is. It will come, especially if you are bringing her back into as much work as she's able to do - I found that even walking out in hand for 20 minutes a day was enough to boost her metabolism and allow her to stay out at grass longer.

 

[serenityjane]

No difference on hard or soft ground

If it were footiness causing the problem in my experience there would be a marked difference between hard and soft ground (or boots/no boots)!
She looks just right considering her lack of work/muscle-in fact she has kept good condition in spite of the lack of work, she has just lost the fat.
Poverty lines are no measure of condition- I have had really fat horses that have had them! They are after all just lines of muscle definition-like a six pack!

 

[Wagtail]

If it were footiness causing the problem in my experience there would be a marked difference between hard and soft ground (or boots/no boots)!
She looks just right considering her lack of work/muscle-in fact she has kept good condition in spite of the lack of work, she has just lost the fat.
Poverty lines are no measure of condition- I have had really fat horses that have had them! They are after all just lines of muscle definition-like a six pack!

I think that she did have a touch of lami a week ago as there were pulses and the stones definitely made her 'ouch'. But since the pulses have died down she still has very slight left fore lameness that is just as bad in the sand.

I agree re the poverty lines. It is just the way each horse is made. I have never seen the significance of them.

 

[Wagtail]

She looks very similar to how my EMS (but not Cushings, yet, though aged 13 it's always in the back of my mind) horse looked a few months after her first and only laminitis attack.

She'd been on a crash diet to get the weight off her, on long term box rest as her feet were wrecked almost beyond saving (pedal bones came clean through the soles ) and her pulses came up again at the slightest provocation. This after 12 years of being a perfectly healthy good do-er, always well covered, blatantly fat in the summer - it eventually just caught up with her and bam, insulin resistance, laminitis, the works.

The turning point came when she was sound enough to exercise again, for her exercise really is the key to management and when she's ridden regularly she can even be turned out on grass for long periods without any ill effect. She looks a lot less oddly shaped since resuming work, though she's still ribby in comparison to a 'normal' horse the rest of her is sleek and shiny and the muscle is building up where fat pads used to be. We're even thinking about weaning her off metformin.

In short, it's harder to see beyond a retained coat on a dull day which is why people may think she looks poorer than she is. It will come, especially if you are bringing her back into as much work as she's able to do - I found that even walking out in hand for 20 minutes a day was enough to boost her metabolism and allow her to stay out at grass longer.

Well done with your mare. I know that it will really help if I am able to exercise mine, but I never seem to be able to get any consistency due to soundness.

 

[blackcob]

There was a long period where it was the same for us - we'd be riding one week and she'd be fine, then the next day her pulses would be up and she'd be sore on tarmac. At the time she was off grass completely (couldn't tolerate a blade) and her intake of everything else so closely monitored, it was disheartening as we often couldn't pinpoint the cause. It did level out eventually but it's still a fragile balance.

It is a hard slog and you have my every sympathy, it's a bloody awful condition and the last thing you need is to have people questioning your management by saying she's too thin. You do whatever you need to to keep the pulses down.

She looks a hundred times better than the before picture. With hindsight mine had the abnormal fat distribution as well but when you are constantly reinforced with the 'looking well', 'well covered', 'good do-er' type stuff and surrounded by other fat horses who haven't yet succumbed to EMS or PPID then you just don't see it until it's too late.

 

[snooples]

I think she looks perfect given her problems.
Nothing is going to look nice and shiny when its changing coat but I think your doing a great job.
Iv noticed on here a lot of people seem to think being on the fatter end of healthy (prob due to all the fat cobs they have) is the perfect weight!

 

[FfionWinnie]

At the end of the day what option do you have, you are doing more than most would to keep this mare going and doing a great job too. So just ignore any idiots.

 

[Wagtail]

I think she looks perfect given her problems.
Nothing is going to look nice and shiny when its changing coat but I think your doing a great job.
Iv noticed on here a lot of people seem to think being on the fatter end of healthy (prob due to all the fat cobs they have) is the perfect weight!

At the end of the day what option do you have, you are doing more than most would to keep this mare going and doing a great job too. So just ignore any idiots.

Thank you! I feel a bit better now. I know she is happy, and yes, in an ideal world I would like a tiny bit more on her, but it's lean or dead for her really. I'm sure she wonders what ever happened to ad lib.

 

[LittleRooketRider]

looks lovely with a really kind face too