Is the tide turning?

[cosmo_sam]

My thoughts/discussions with my instructor Sue Hill yesterday, re Anky's BD convention, really have got me sort of wound up!

Not in a bad way, more of a frustrated way.

I'm a fairly novice rider in terms of probably most of you on here. I rode ponies for other people's as a teen, worked at a riding school etc, stopped riding at 17 (the usual distractions

)

I began riding again at 25 when I shared a horse and bought George 3 years ago.

I've done unaff dressage, some RC ODE's etc and generally tried to experience as much as I could (with the help of my share horse).

I consider myself SO lucky that as I got back into riding, I also met Sue. She has led us through everything every step of the way, and I consider I'd never truly learned to ride or understand a horse before I met her.

I soon realised that her way of teaching/thinking was not the same as everyone else's instructors. She was very horse focused and allowed us to iron out or positional problems etc as we went along, but the horse's reactions etc were always the priority.

I moved yards, onto a more competitive yard where I began to study other instructors and their methods. I've also used these forums and tried to gleam most people's attitudes to training etc.

Initially I began to doubt Sue, as these other instructors seemed to be giving many more commands, shouting "OUTSIDE REIN, LIFT YOUR HAND, MORE LEG, LEG ON" etc.

With Sue, we were always to focus on getting a reaction to any aid we gave, go back to riding quietly once we had the reaction, riding from leg to hand, not hand to leg. Teaching the horse to carry itself and not rely on our hand etc.

My friends however were being taught to "support" the horse the whole time, hold it all together, use outside rein to control falling out, inside leg to control falling in. I was confused as I'd been taught to just ride forward to prevent these things, and to enable the horse to be straight by finding it's own balance through going forward.

Over the last 12 mths, I've moved yards again, to a much more competitive yard. All of these differences in attitudes to riding seemed even more prevalent! Bigger bits/gadgets etc, are seen as the answer to problems, where for us, flatwork (both on a hack and in an arena) has always been the solution.

I again had to sort of bury myhead and just stick to my guns and have faith in Sue.

Last week I was lucky enough to have a dressage lesson with a fabulous classical dressage rider Georges Dewez. I was overjoyed!! He was the first person I'd met to totally support Sue's way of thinking, and the results he got when he rode my horse was out of this world!

Sue has since come back from Anky's conference feeling such relief and vindication as the focus of it was totally in support of all Sue's thinking. Yes there were added points etc, but the fundamental thinking behind it all was what she has always believed.

I felt wonderful hearing it, and seeing her face. She admitted that she feels she is the only trainer in her area that seems to think this way, and that it is very difficult to stick to her guns and feel so out in the cold at times.

Do we think that Anky's convention and the likes WILL begin to filter down to grass roots and change instructor's persectives? Will common sense, black and white teaching take front stage as opposed to the old archaic regimented instructions that have been banded around for years??

I for one hope so!

 

[Llwyncwn]

I for one couldnt agree more. Very interesting post. Would be interested to know how your lesson went with Georges as I e-mailed him weeks ago asking to book a lesson, but I have had no response yet.

 

[burtie]

[ QUOTE ]
"OUTSIDE REIN, LIFT YOUR HAND, MORE LEG, LEG ON"

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing wrong with any of these commands as long as used with an explanation of why and what you are trying to help the rider achieve!

 

[Judie]

[ QUOTE ]
With Sue, we were always to focus on getting a reaction to any aid we gave, go back to riding quietly once we had the reaction, riding from leg to hand, not hand to leg. Teaching the horse to carry itself and not rely on our hand etc

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this totally, but don't think it is a new concept or that Sue is alone in thinking this way.

With the terminology ' hold it together', taken out of context one could think you mean literally holding the horse's front end up and shutting the door, I would take this as holding the horse together with ones seat - something Anky does very well - this is how you would get collection and engagement.

I also agree with you that a horse should always be moving, forward, however forward on it's own isn't enough, you do need to control the shoulders, may I ask how Sue would ask you to correct this? (not a trick question genuinely interested).

Again I agree with gadgets/bits ect but every horse is different and should be treated as such, not all horses like the milder bits so it's some times hard to critise others without know the horse well.

I have heard the comment out inside leg to outside rein but I also heard that it was meant to 'all the time' rather than not at all, but I wasn't there! Having watched Ulla S recently she certainly uses the outside rein and having watched Anky compete, she certainly uses both reins to contain the energy, so one must remember that the ideal expressed at these lectures isn't always the way it is done in practise all the time.

Clearly Anky is a very talented rider but there are others who are also very talented and do things slightly different, there is room for more than one way in the horse world and so long as the horse is comfortable in the methods used then I don't have a problem - the problem is when people can not recognise when a method isn't working for the horse! Which brings the whole thing back to Sue's point I guess.

 

[Tempi]

i understand what you are trying to say about the 'outside hand/inside leg' as Sjef said in the convention that inside leg to outside hand was not the way to ride, but he did surcome to this view a little later in the convention saying that it can be used in some circumstances. I think what must be understand is that the riders used in the demos where all top class on very well trained horses, what Anky and Sjef got them to do is not necessarily the way to train your horse. For example non of them rode with a whip, yet ive just started training with one of the '5' from the demo and a whip is definately needed for my horse at this stage in his training.

When Anky got Gareth to ride Duvie with no leg aids in the downwards transitions she did it to help the horse 'think forwards' and to get the horse more responsive. Dont forget that these horses are top horses..........

 

[Tempi]

[ QUOTE ]
Clearly Anky is a very talented rider but there are others who are also very talented and do things slightly different, there is room for more than one way in the horse world and so long as the horse is comfortable in the methods used then I don't have a problem - the problem is when people can not recognise when a method isn't working for the horse! Which brings the whole thing back to Sue's point I guess.

[/ QUOTE ]

good point - everyone teaches differently and as long as you find a method that works well for you and your horse then you dont need to worry that you're not training the same as the likes of Anky and Sjef. Ankys methods are controversial and did raise a lot of questions at the convention. I agree wholey with her methods, but others dont. Its the same as what works for some dosent work for others imo.

 

[burtie]

[ QUOTE ]
I think what must be understand is that the riders used in the demos where all top class on very well trained horses, what Anky and Sjef got them to do is not necessarily the way to train your horse.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have the hit the nail dead on!! Most the riders who I teach who have ridden loads but never schooled a horse before, they ride by stearing the horse around the arena using the inside rein and the outside rein hanging loose, so I'm afraid inside rein into outside hand is an expression I use a lot. Not becuase I want the horse to be heavier on the outside rein, just not falling in around the corners with a loose outside rein!

Sometimes, shock horror I 've told the riders to do the exact opposite, it really depends on the horse, and the riders ability and what is going on at the time! In the real world I'm neither qualified or likely to come across riders and horses the likes of Anky and her collection, I can take away a lot of their ideas though and perhaps tailor them to help my more 'average' riders!

 

[Tempi]

exactly - you dont get a novice rider on an ordinary riding school horse riding LDR for example.........you have to teach what people understand.

 

[cosmo_sam]

Quote:
With Sue, we were always to focus on getting a reaction to any aid we gave, go back to riding quietly once we had the reaction, riding from leg to hand, not hand to leg. Teaching the horse to carry itself and not rely on our hand etc

I agree with this totally, but don't think it is a new concept or that Sue is alone in thinking this way.

No I agree it's not new, but it does seem to be conveniently ignored by many. I see lots of people obsessed with a shape, when a horse is barely moving behind.




I also agree with you that a horse should always be moving, forward, however forward on it's own isn't enough, you do need to control the shoulders, may I ask how Sue would ask you to correct this? (not a trick question genuinely interested).

Well I don't claim to be the expert (only the pupil

) but my understanding is that if the horse is moving forward in a good rhythm and balance, then the riders job will be one of monitoring rather than controlling. My horse is so big, that if I were to try and control anything with my hands I'd have no chance. He pretty much takes me around the corners/circle etc, and provided I sit straight etc and think forward he rarely falls in or out. Granted I've not yet got to half pass, so there may be a new lesson to learn then

Everything I'm talking about is based on basic aids/work not advanced movements as I'm not there yet

As for the holding together, yes I mean people riding on their hands. Fixing a hand position and resulting the horse sort of rolling around the hand. I agree the seat is a big part of holding together as again with George, teaching him to respond to my seat had been invaluable.

Also bit wise, I do believe in varying them to help a problem on the flat if you think it may help, my comment was mainly in regards to horses running against the hand and a bigger bit reached for, when the horse perhaps needs work on it's rhythm and balance on the flat to help jumping etc.



there is room for more than one way in the horse world and so long as the horse is comfortable in the methods used then I don't have a problem - the problem is when people can not recognise when a method isn't working for the horse! Which brings the whole thing back to Sue's point I guess.[/]

I totally agree

I suppose my point is that many (and around me MOST) instructors seem to use terms and instructions in a one size fits all way! They also seem to have very little understanding in terms of a horses training, and yet these are the people entrusted with riders of the future!

We can't all have very expensive trainers, but surely at the basic level, blinding riders with commands and rules, that don't make any sense to the novice is not the way to go.

Teaching riders to be clear, and black and white with their horses and THEN go on to refine the details is better than causing backward thinking horses/riders blocked and shut down in lots of cases?

 

[Tempi]

[ QUOTE ]
..............and yet these are the people entrusted with riders of the future!

[/ QUOTE ]

if you mean the general riders of the future then yes there is a way that most 'riding school' instructors teach which is normally the same, however dressage riders of the future will be training with the likes of Spencer/Andrew/JLC etc..........and likewise eventers/SJers etc are going to be training with the top people.

[ QUOTE ]
Teaching riders to be clear, and black and white with their horses and THEN go on to refine the details is better than causing backward thinking horses/riders blocked and shut down in lots of cases?

[/ QUOTE ]

but these training methods are used by the highest level trainers in the world basically, not by riding school instructors who teach day in day out. Im not meaning this to sound rude, but the sort of people these training methods are being used on are ones that are training with the best.......

(what ive written probably dosent make sense, but i know what im trying to get at!!)

Edited because i cant spell!!

 

[burtie]

[ QUOTE ]
I suppose my point is that many (and around me MOST) instructors seem to use terms and instructions in a one size fits all way! They also seem to have very little understanding in terms of a horses training, and yet these are the people entrusted with riders of the future!

[/ QUOTE ]

There are 2 basic levels of training IMO, the first is purely teaching the rider how to ride a horse, stay on safely and stay in balance, the second and biggest area is teaching the rider how to train a horse. However at any level even from the first lesson on a horse some explanation should be given as to why you are doing what you doing in a way you can understand(it also shows they understand what they are trying to teach!). If not change intructors!

 

[cosmo_sam]

[ QUOTE ]

You have the hit the nail dead on!! Most the riders who I teach who have ridden loads but never schooled a horse before...

[/ QUOTE ]

That's such a good point and I think clarifies what I mean in MY head!

Basically from day one Sue has taught us to school a horse, and as we do, we've learned to ride. Granted on a riding school horse this is not as easy, but because I was learning on my share horse and then my youngster she has been able to do that.

She told us to forget the front intially and focus on getting forward reaction and then sitting quietly, not nagging and nagging blocking the horse. With my share horse (that was VERY shut down). It was leg aid, backed up my enough of a schooling whip to get a reaction if she didn't react. Weaning her off the big aid and getting her of a quiet aid.

That's all we did for ages really, but then thing began to get easier and come together on their own. Then we worked on getting her to relax her jaw, mainly in halt and just built up from there.

 

[cosmo_sam]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but these training methods are used by the highest level trainers in the world basically, not by riding school instructors who teach day in day out. Im not meaning this to sound rude, but the sort of people these training methods are being used on are ones that are training with the best.......

(what ive written probably dosent make sense, but i know what im trying to get at!!)

[/ QUOTE ]

It does make sense, but I think that this is the point, why shouldn't we all benefit from the attitudes of the best?

Sue is a BD pyramid trainer, and that is the whole concept, she learns from the best and it is filtered via her to us.

I know that the top dressage riders will have access to the best trainers but I feel my horse deserves me to have access to someone who helps me keep him happy, free and able to move. Even if we never win a dressage test, I know I've not blocked him or made him tight in his back etc.

Surely that's all most riders would like to get from their lessons?

 

[burtie]

I think where we differ in this country to Europe is the vast number of pleasure riders who happily plod about for years on the natives and TBx and other varieties of horse, and decide 'Oh this dressage looks fun'. This is absolutely brilliant and I love teaching them, in fact this is where most my pupils come from , but when you have a 40+ year old lady who has happily hacked for years on her lovely TBx something who has not done much schooling for years, you have to be a bit more imaginative about how to teach them and perhaps work with the less than perfect position and stiff hips and one sided horses etc etc.
Does not mean they can't make dressage riders or course they can(although they are probably not going to riding for Britain!), but equally you have to be able to achieve something that is within their abilities without perhaps spending years going right back to basics. It's not about taking short-cuts as such, but helping them both improve without completely throwing their confidence and making then feel hopeless!

Does that rambling make any sense!?!

 

[cosmo_sam]

It does

and I think you must be a very caring thoughtful instructor to think like that

I suppose my main problem is with instructors who bellow very typical (and I don't mean to sound offensive) BHS instructions at a rider, the rider gets nowhere fast, then the rider gets tense, the horse gets blocked and so the instructor bellows the same instructions LOUDER making the poor novice try harder and feel like they're a failure! I've seen this far too many times with not only one instructor either!

Also, my horse is very laid back. Sue has said from day one that he MUST respond to a light aid and I must ensure I get a reaction. Teamed with that though, she stresses I have a duty to make sure I'm not closing the front door with my hand or my seat when I am trying to get him more forward etc as that is how horses end up shut down.

Other instructors would have had me use more and more leg, and my horse would more than likely be capable of little more than hacking!!

 

[Patchwork]

[ QUOTE ]
use outside rein to control falling out, inside leg to control falling in.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think people often get confused differentiating between an instructor asking you do do something as a correction and as a permanent technique. For example, the perfectly trained horse would neither fall our not in and would go perfectly forward from a light aid. This is not often the case in 'real life,' due to a lack of training, rider inexperience, etc., so further measures are sometimes required AS A CORRECTION. If your horse doesn't go forward from a light aid then repeating this light aid is unlikely to prove beneficial and will deaden the horse further. Use of a stronger leg aid/the whip will sharpen the horse up providing it is used once the horse has been given the chance to respond to a light aid and providing the aid is removed as soon as the horse reacts. This doesn't mean that a strong leg aid is being advocated as a permanent technique. Similarly, if the horse falls in the inside leg can be applied more strongly, and then relaxed when the horse obeys. These issues are often balance/strength/suppleness related so a sensible programme is required in order that the horse isn't asked to produce a movement he is physically unable to perform.

From what you have said I don't think your trainer is asking you for anything particularly unusual... I have always been taught in a similar way...

 

[cosmo_sam]

That's reassuring

maybe the tide is turning then and it has just yet to reach the majority of instructors I've come across

 

[flyingfeet]

I really don't like the British dressage style.

Majority of riders apply far too much pressure through the reins and as stated at the lower levels people are trying to hold their horses together via contact.

More traditional riding from the seat gets my vote!

 

[teapot]

I think I've been lucky with my instructors (never had my own horse or competed) in the fact that my lessons, which used to be weekly or twice weekly (less so at the mo) on the RS horses, albeit, would be either an ex-advanced eventer or a medium dressage horse.

I've ALWAYS been taught to ride from the back to the front, get the horse listening to you, balanced or even the lovely word cadence (how many RS's use that word in everyday lessons?), working from behind before you even think about the front end. All my flatwork lessons have concentrated on the legs, the seat and working from behind.

had a lesson with a friend once, working on our own, instructor just sat and watched for a bit. I was working on engagement behind etc, whilst friend was working on fixing head down into an "outline" and it was duly noted by instructor. When I first started learning about riding into an outline etc (and this was only a couple of years ago) it wasn't a case of fiz your hands and hope. My instructor went through the principles both on & off a horse. Demonstrated what she was meaning etc and this is the way I've always ridden.

Reading threads online and hearing people's experiences, just makes me realise how lucky I am to have the 3 instructors I do. When I eventually get up to the yard I'll ask whether they were at the convention (2 of the 3 are competing in BD). They always bring in examples or snippets from their own lessons from various people. But this is a RS, ok, it's one the better ones in the area, and more expensive. But that's why I'm happy to pay for it

Hope this kinda brings in another viewpoint from someone who's only ever ridden at a RS. Oh and it's a BHS where to train yard too - so rather BHS in it's approach most of the time

 

[cosmo_sam]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
use outside rein to control falling out, inside leg to control falling in.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think people often get confused differentiating between an instructor asking you do do something as a correction and as a permanent technique. For example, the perfectly trained horse would neither fall our not in and would go perfectly forward from a light aid. This is not often the case in 'real life,' due to a lack of training, rider inexperience, etc., so further measures are sometimes required AS A CORRECTION.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been giving this point some thought.

I understand what you mean. I often say that to me some people are very good riders in the "coping" sense. We all know the type. Riders that can get on any horse and make it look something decent no matter how it is trained. These riders are usually very good for dealers or good at showing horses that they just turn up and ride.

I don't consider myself one of these people!

I'm not that naturally gifted.

I personally strive to be a good training rider. I don't like to do fixes or cover ups, but I'm lucky in that usually the horses I ride I have time to work with.

I understand that learning to "correct" a fault temporarily does have it's uses. I don't really think though, that that is good for a rider to learn from the beginning. As I've said, on some riding school horses the rider has to be taught to cope as they can't retrain the horse in their hour session but that's far from ideal.

The instructor's I'm talking about were all teaching riders on their own horse, so I think it's inexcusable for them to perpetuate a fault, and they should strip it all away and get the horse going forward etc - or at least attempt to.

 

[Patchwork]

[ QUOTE ]
I understand that learning to "correct" a fault temporarily does have it's uses.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is sometimes possible to correct a fault temporarily by using strength to 'hold' the horse up, straight or whatever but what I was talking about was a training process involving using a stronger aid to get a reaction from the horse in order that next time you can revert to a lighter aid. For example, let's say a horse isn't going forward and is dead to the leg. The ideal way to ask a horse to move forward is a light nudge by the girth, etc., which can be taken from any instructional book. If you are teaching somebody to ride on a horse that does not react to this aid, it seems to me pointless to merely ask them to use this aid as this is the 'correct way' - to me the essence of riding is effective communication. If, when the horse fails to respond, you use a stronger leg aid/touch with the whip to gain the desired reaction (which you praise the horse for) you will usually be able to very quickly get the same response from a 'correct' light leg aid. I don't see this as a 'quick fix' - you may well need to repeat the process the next time you get on the horse but as long as you are consistent you will end up with a much more responsive horse that you can communicate more subtly and effectively with.

 

[cosmo_sam]

I've said Sue has always insisted George goes from a light aid, and if he doesn't react it's backed up by a sharp schooling whip enough to ensure he reacts. He now knows the score and does react to a light aid. Sue has always said, if he can feel a fly on his bottom he can feel a light aid, he just used to choose to ignore it.

The corrections I was referring to was not the leg aid point, but the hand/falling in/out point.

That is a coping correction and not a training correction IMO (hope that makes sense?)

 

[Weezy]

[ QUOTE ]
I really don't like the British dressage style.

Majority of riders apply far too much pressure through the reins and as stated at the lower levels people are trying to hold their horses together via contact.

More traditional riding from the seat gets my vote!

[/ QUOTE ]

I TOTALLY agree - this is why I get on some horses over here and I feel I cant ride - I know I CAN, I ride from my seat, it just takes some horses a while to feel free and trust you enough to work in that way IMHO - the inside leg to outside rein thing - I am cruddy at it and whenever I have a lesson and am told to get better bend to use more outside rein I always ask "why" - I have NEVER EVER had a decent explanation - to me, if shouldnt be about rein at all

Anyway, I dont feel qualified enough to comment much, have lots to say in my head but I am no dressage rider so shall now retire

 

[Patchwork]

Yep, does make sense

However, with the falling in/out thing there is the additional issue of physical ability. If the horse does not have the required lateral flexibility and strength to remain soft and engaged through left and right bend then I feel that no amount of just allowing the horse to move forward in the way he/she finds easiest to balance is going to improve this. It is the same as training a human gymnast: If you always do only what you find easy then you will never improve, but if your coach over-pushes you then you will end up resistant and probably suffer an injury. If, however, you are gradually stretched over a period of time then you will become more supple and flexible and hence things that at the beginning of the training programme you found difficult, creating some tension and requiring support, you will now find easy to perform unaided. To achieve this with a horse you need the mental cooperation that is taken for granted with a human sportsperson, and this can be cultivated by knowing the right point at which to ask each new question - this, in my opinion, is a large part of what constitutes 'horsemanship.'

 

[cosmo_sam]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I really don't like the British dressage style.

Majority of riders apply far too much pressure through the reins and as stated at the lower levels people are trying to hold their horses together via contact.

More traditional riding from the seat gets my vote!

[/ QUOTE ]

I TOTALLY agree - this is why I get on some horses over here and I feel I cant ride - I know I CAN, I ride from my seat, it just takes some horses a while to feel free and trust you enough to work in that way IMHO - the inside leg to outside rein thing - I am cruddy at it and whenever I have a lesson and am told to get better bend to use more outside rein I always ask "why" - I have NEVER EVER had a decent explanation - to me, if shouldnt be about rein at all

Anyway, I dont feel qualified enough to comment much, have lots to say in my head but I am no dressage rider so shall now retire

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL

As for the outside rein/bend thing, that always bewildered me!!!

I read something by Tina Sederholm though were she said that the outside rein controls the lateral bend as the horse should be TAKING the outside rein if it is working forwards and through. Therefore the outside rein limits or allows the amount of bend the horse takes.

That is however a very different concept to someone holding the outside rein to stop a horse falling out and I think it must get misinterpreted.

 

[Weezy]

Yes yes yes - TAKING the outside rein and working forwards through it - however SO many instructors over here IMHO tell their pupils to *hold* the outside rein or take more outside rein - which, IMHO is incorrect!

 

[Tierra]

*Disclaimer* No offence is meant to anyone with this post. It's each to their own etc

I agree with Weezy and Cotswold completly. Im not a fan of the way many BD trainers teach over here at all. The BD trainer who manages the livery yard where my boy is was there (although I havent spoken to her regarding this). However, her methods have changed in the last couple of years that ive been based with her and it's showing in both her teaching and the way her own horses and those of her students are going.

I was taught classically throughout my teens and then took a break from riding for a couple of years while I lived abroad. When we returned to the UK, we bought a very nice dressage horse and I proceeded to have hmmm.. more conventional (im trying to think of an appropriate word here), dressage lessons with a BD trainer. After a few months of that, I reverted very very quickly back to a classical trainer and I havent looked back.

Im not a fan of rollkur / LDR / hyperflexion at all so Im not particularly going to comment on Anky.

Im on a very competitive livery yard and I think im the only person there who doesnt have regular lessons with the person managing the place. I ride differently to everyone else and it shows for sure in the way my horse works compared to the others - we have a yard full of very overbent horses with their outlines broken mid way up their necks (all working at levels from elementary all the way through)

Interestingly, someone else got on my horse recently and couldnt ride one side of him. Everytime she attempted to take a contact (and proceeded to do whatever it was she was doing with his reins), he went extremely above the bit, hollowed through his back and looked horrendous. The person in question is certainly what most people would consider to be quite competent, but she couldnt ride him from back to front.

I keep things simple... I ride from leg and seat to hand and I dont fiddle with the reins. Ive always aimed to achieve the classical ideal presented by the likes of the spanish riding school and while Im a loooong way from being anywhere near their level, I am happy in my own mind that my horse is progressing well and working in a way that Im comfortable with (via methods that im happy with).

Ive just had my inlaws over for a weekend and they spent quite a bit of time at the stables watching me ride. A classic quote came from my OH's dad (who is completly none horsey). While watching someone else schooling he said "why is that horse staring at it's own feet - it doesnt look natural". That for me, sums up a lot of riding today

 

[Weezy]

It REALLY REALLY gets my back up when I see/hear people bloody fiddling with their horses via the reins - sure I can do that, hell I have enough strength to pull a horse into an *outline* I dont do it, why? because IT ISNT RIGHT! Work from your seat, into an accepting and soft hand, make the rear do the work and the rest WILL come! I dont give a jot what the front end is doing, so long as the back end is motoring then it will come - and people getting on my horses, and vice-like gripping them with their legs (inclu lower leg) NO, DONT, it wont work! Add to that a firm hard hand and you are ASKING for trouble!

 

[eventingdiva]

[ QUOTE ]
For example non of them rode with a whip, yet ive just started training with one of the '5' from the demo and a whip is definately needed for my horse at this stage in his training

[/ QUOTE ]

How did your lesson go? Did you go to Danes or did Andrew travel? x

 

[teapot]

[ QUOTE ]
Work from your seat, into an accepting and soft hand, make the rear do the work and the rest WILL come! I dont give a jot what the front end is doing, so long as the back end is motoring then it will come

[/ QUOTE ]

That is probably bar a couple of words exactly how I was and still am taught.

Constatly - forget the front end