Is the use of a Pessoa ever justified?

[Crugeran Celt]

I think the problem with all these gadgets is that anybody can buy and use them often without really knowing what the aim of the aid is in the first place, it's a fad and the 'in thing'to have. They then use these aids incorrectly which cannot be good for any horse. I have owned horses for nearly 40 years and would have absolutely no idea how to fit a pessoa correctly or how to work a horse in one. I hate gadgets, not becuase they don't work but because they can easily be used incorrectly by anybody who fancies buying them.

 

[Kat]

Vets seem to prescribe lunging in a pessoa fairly frequently.

 

[ester]

Excuse my ignorance, I have never used one. But surely a pessoa doesnt actually affect the horse unless its working incorrectly? (either the horse or the pessoa). My friend uses one and has won every showing class there is, including RDS and all the judges comment on the way of going and lovely ride her ex racehorse gives. He certainly doesnt look like he has a broken neck!
I have used a chambon for lunging, and again that encourages rather than forces the horse to stretch down.

Hmm that presumes that a pessoa is putting a horse where it needs to be to work correctly. I am unconvinced. And show horses are frequently not using themselvs properly. I also think you have misunderstood what is meant by stating that it is broken at the 3rd vertebrae.


I have also never used a rein movement for encouraging forwards on long reins, granted I taught myself to long rein but reins are for contact, voice and stick for direction, the same as driving.

 

[DabDab]

I've known lots of people use the rein as a substitute leg aid when long reining - young horses who haven't been lunged or loose schooled to learn voice commands and you don't necessarily want to be in close quarters waggling a whip. I've known a few people who prefer to teach basic lateral work using the lines for aid too, it does allow you to give an aid both sides of the body, but that can be mighty confuzzling for a young horse in my humble opinion.

 

[stencilface]

I try long reining where I have my hands on the sides of his tail and walk to one side, I hold a jumping whip on his other side that I use for forward encouragement, if he needs to stride on a bit more. This means u can do shoulder in etc a la the Spanish riding school, but obviously I look nothing like them

 

[tallyho!]

Vets seem to prescribe lunging in a pessoa fairly frequently.

For what ailment? This worries me a lot and has happened to me - do they ever tell anyone how to use one?... Not mine anyway, all that was said was that "it would strengthen the back". I duly bought one and watched every video, write up, article there was and sure enough, it does encourage "correct work over the back".

As I was using it, as correctly as I could, you see, there's no "Pessoa School" to go to and learn exactly how to use one, I realised that yes it was encouraging a lower head carriage in walk and I was impressed actually.

Fast forward to a year after I started using one... it did not deliver. It gave me a hollow, unhappy, on the forehand horse. If I was a typical example, then how many others must there be? If someone here is a master of one, perhaps you'd do horses a service and video a tutorial?

The truth is, it's not the back that needs "strengthening"... its the core muscles, underneath that need the most work to LIFT the back and allow forward movement and a proper swing which in turn gets you a horse that is listening to your aids and working correctly from behind and seeking your contact. You can only really get that by allowing a horse to find it's balance. Not forcing a prescribed balance for them. It takes more time, but less time than correcting what a gadget has got wrong.

My pessoa was cut up in bits years ago and used for all manner of other USEFUL things.

 

[be positive]

Vets are rarely "qualified" trainers so they suggest things that they have been told may help but in reality they are not best placed to advise on what is a training issue, they also have very little idea of what the owner is capable of doing with the horse which is a crucial part of the equation, I know of one physio who works with a vet and has successfully used a pessoa in KS rehab but I think the physio is very involved with every horse and owner to ensure it is used appropriately.

I don't own one, would have no idea how to put one on and have no desire to do so, I lunge with as little equipment as possible so the horse learns to carry itself and find it's own balance, sometimes one rein on a headcollar is more than enough.

 

[Goldenstar]

Vets seem to prescribe lunging in a pessoa fairly frequently.

It does not mean it's a good idea .
They would be better IMO setting inexperianced owners away in bungee and use a tail round the bum and list of pole exercises chosen by a ACPAT Physio who has a special interest in this type of work .
Or an equi core and a bungee .

 

[JFTDWS]

Vets seem to prescribe lunging in a pessoa fairly frequently.

But on what basis? As in medicine, there's a move towards evidence-based veterinary medicine, which doesn't always filter down to grass roots level, and without evidence (which I'm fairly sure does not - at this point - exist), the vet's suggestion is just speculation or anecdotal experience.

 

[tallyho!]

I would agree with BP & GS above, if a vet "prescribes" any sort of gadget he should be prescribing the physiotherapist that goes with it.

The ACPAT physio that I called upon myself actually said she would never advocate a pessoa for any rehab instead a programme of polework and in-hand work that focuses on the core strength of a horse.

Whilst she has never seen or familiar with ST, she did actually say she would look into it as a way of rehab - you never know - proper classical training may be coming back in vogue if enough physio's were to look into it's merits.

 

[tristar]

lunging for a few minutes each way, watching intently how the horse reacts to what it is doing, is where i would start, in a headcollar only.

lunging vaguely whilst gazing into the sky and wondering what to cook for lunch is not going help, study of the horses movement and carriage, whether it is stiff and where, using very big circles and not forcing the pace until the horse is loose, and building up the working time according to the horses response, letting the horse dictate how long the work session will be.

i have done this and it takes as long as it takes, until it is possible to put pressure on the horse and ask for more, but only when the horse is ready.

the benefit of taking it slowly and not constricting the horse is that it enables the horse to put its head where it feels most comfortable, only the horse knows how it feels and where it feels tension or discomfort, the horse needs to have confidence it will not be subjected to pain so it can relax and experience all the sensations as its body starts to put itself right.

as with all training, every few minutes the horse should be rested in walk and allowed to stretch, which it can`t do if trussed up up like a sodding chicken ready for the oven, with whatever gadget is the flavour of the moment.

in fact if horses where not forced and rushed in the first place during the early training, surely a lot would not need rehab excepting for accidental injuries.

 

[Pippity]

Hopefuly, most of us are agreed that ideally a horse will work well on the lunge without any gadgets, be they side reins or something else. Tbh, that is how I do most of my lungeing. However, sometimes, especially after injury, judicious and targeted use of the right aid can assist in the retraining of muscle memory.

I'm a big fan of the equi ami for rehab. It's always set as loosely as is safe, but the ingenious sliding loop arrangement means that the horse is only ever encouraged, not forced, to work correctly. If it wants to go like a hollow bendy banana, it still can, but it is rewarded if it stretches forwards and down and straight.

This thread was more aimed specifically at the Pessoa, which in its variants is in common use.

Anyhow, I've just signed up to attend a series of 3 lecture demos being put on by my equine physio. They cover Equine massage and stretches, Polework for fitness and rehabilitation, and Lungeing and long reining. I'm looking forward to those, should be good .

Here's a link if anyone is interested.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1374528642615976&id=128788887189964

I was considering signing up for those, so I might see you there. Here's hoping the Polework lecture covers how to persuade your horse that poles aren't going to leap up and bit his belly!

 

[Goldenstar]

Take a look at the art2ride ( it's a bit ra ra American but ignore that )stuff on Facebook and see what can be achieved with a graduated stretching plan done mainly at first ...walking .

Get that mindset settled in your brain and the need for a Pessoa or such things just dissolves .