Is there a market for a unbroken 4 year old Warmblood?

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sz90168

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I have got a lovely 16.2hh Palomino Warmlood gelding that has grown to big me for me. He is 4 now and 16.2hh already. He was only meant to make 16hh max. He was backed lightly last year and turned away until now. Due to time constraints and that he has grown to big me for me I have decided to sell him. My question is would people buy him unbroken or would it be worth finishing him off? He was very quiet and easy to do last year but I have left him to mature due to his size. Would people prefer a fairly blank canvas? Or would people be put off? I am not sure what to do. Any advise would be appreciated.
 
Preferably i would want un backed so i know what has gone on with him, but it wont hurt to put an advert out for him and if you get no response then i would look at sending him for backing and sales livery. TBH 4 for a warmblood is still pretty young for their body to be mature and i would much rather be buying something with not much work in it than something that has done a lot.
 
Well our last horse was an unbroken gypsy cob - there is a market for unbroken horses, or rather unbacked.

But you need to be VERY realistic with the price.
 
I've bought two unbroken for year olds in the last three months. One reason why there were so few enquiries for the second was that the advert said he had been sat on and then taken no further. It raised huge alarm bells in me that the horse would be difficult to back. It was only the spectacular look of the horse that made me pursue it, and I got the seller to back him on the basis that I would not pay until he was riding quietly.

So I would sell your horse either ridden, or on the basis that you are happy to back him if the buyer wants, for, say, an additional £500.


Good luck, he sounds nice. I would have been interested myself a month ago.
 
Thank you for the replies. I think I will advertise him shortly to test the waters and if he does not sell within a month I get on and back him with the help of a professional. He was lightly backed last year and was very easy. Think I just need to get on with it.
 
sz90168 said:
Thank you for the replies. I think I will advertise him shortly to test the waters and if he does not sell within a month I get on and back him with the help of a professional. He was lightly backed last year and was very easy. Think I just need to get on with it.
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The problem you have is that folk think you have cocked it up if he was backed and then not ridden away- or been re-started this year - I am sure that is not the case but it is buyer beware
 
I'd say there are two types of markets - the unbroken, but ready to break, and the establish. You kind of don't fit into either. I would be questioning what was wrong with the horse if you had backed last year, turned away but not progressed further - if you had backed and sold immediately this wouldn't be an issue.

I wouldn't discount a horse just because it had been backed by someone else, but I would favour an untouched one though.
 
Fides said:
I'd say there are two types of markets - the unbroken, but ready to break, and the establish. You kind of don't fit into either. I would be questioning what was wrong with the horse if you had backed last year, turned away but not progressed further - if you had backed and sold immediately this wouldn't be an issue.
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Why on earth would you question it? When people took more time over their breaking in , that was exactly what usually happened; the horse would be lunged, long reined and then backed, ridden a few days and then put away until the following year when the horse would come back stronger and more mentally ready to progress remembering the lessons before; nothing unusual at all about it. Nowadays people are in too much hurry which isn't good for the horses so for an experienced person, the Op's situation is ideal as the horse has grown and strengthened up so is ready to progress.
 
It's a once bitten twice shy, kind of thing. Often these horses' education has been halted for a reason, and that could be perfectly legit - owner's circumstances have changed etc, or it could be because of behavioural or physical issues with the horse. Buyers do tend to be wary, and it's probably for the best!

To be honest though, at four, I wouldn't worry! If he was six, people might question it, but his education thus far sounds as if it's right where it should be :) You could put something like 'ready to progress'.
 
Maesfen said:
Why on earth would you question it? When people took more time over their breaking in , that was exactly what usually happened; the horse would be lunged, long reined and then backed, ridden a few days and then put away until the following year when the horse would come back stronger and more mentally ready to progress remembering the lessons before; nothing unusual at all about it. Nowadays people are in too much hurry which isn't good for the horses so for an experienced person, the Op's situation is ideal as the horse has grown and strengthened up so is ready to progress.
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Exactly this!

Your horse will appeal to us old school folks who don't like to see an education rushed. In fact I'm looking for this sort of thing. Unshod and left to mature. If I were to buy I'd continue the process this summer, then leave it alone until next spring.

I HATE seeing ads for 4 year olds whove "done everything".
 
Maesfen said:
Why on earth would you question it? When people took more time over their breaking in , that was exactly what usually happened; the horse would be lunged, long reined and then backed, ridden a few days and then put away until the following year when the horse would come back stronger and more mentally ready to progress remembering the lessons before; nothing unusual at all about it. Nowadays people are in too much hurry which isn't good for the horses so for an experienced person, the Op's situation is ideal as the horse has grown and strengthened up so is ready to progress.
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Maesfen, the thing i question is why it has not been re backed this year for sale, not the fact that it was turned away. It rings big alarm bells with me if someone says a horse has been sat on but can't show me it sat on when I go to view. I don't think there is anything worse than trying to back a horse someone else has already made a bodge of.
 
Yes certainly there is a market for such horses .
He's a fashionable colour and if a good mover I think he would sell.
I am another who would not be phased by the lightly started thing .
His price would need to reflect the cost of producing him though.
 
cptrayes said:
Maesfen, the thing i question is why it has not been re backed this year for sale, not the fact that it was turned away. It rings big alarm bells with me if someone says a horse has been sat on but can't show me it sat on when I go to view. I don't think there is anything worse than trying to back a horse someone else has already made a bodge of.
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Apologies for sounding a bit thick, but I thought that you were supposed to back and then turn away? Surely if the seller is looking to sell ASAP then surely this isn't unusual?

Considering he's a warmblood & only 4, this wouldn't raise any alarm bells for me, quite the opposite in fact. I agree with pp, there's too much rush in backing youngsters.

Good luck OP, he sounds lovely!
 
Yes I agree with above. Surely he is in the "lightly backed and turned away for the winter" category? If a potential buyer asks why he hasn't done anything this year, OP can be completely honest and say that he had just grown bigger than expected. OP, I dont think you will have any problems shifting a 16.2 palomino 4yo WB. He sounds lovely.
 
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minkymoo said:
Apologies for sounding a bit thick, but I thought that you were supposed to back and then turn away? Surely if the seller is looking to sell ASAP then surely this isn't unusual?

Considering he's a warmblood & only 4, this wouldn't raise any alarm bells for me, quite the opposite in fact. I agree with pp, there's too much rush in backing youngsters.

Good luck OP, he sounds lovely!
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Turning away is a habit only the British routinely follow.
 
Depends upon the horse IMO. If he is a plain sort aimed at the amateur market, they may be worried about why he isn't trotting circles with a rider up.
If he is a serious competition horse, then a buyer isn't going to care I would have thought. Because potential purchasers will possibly want to send him off to be broken, I would restart him while you are selling him. It'll make his life easier & mean the backing process costs less. How is he bred out of interest.
 
Coblover63 said:
Yes I agree with above. Surely he is in the "lightly backed and turned away for the winter" category? If a potential buyer asks why he hasn't done anything this year, OP can be completely honest and say that he had just grown bigger than expected. OP, I dont think you will have any problems shifting a 16.2 palomino 4yo WB. He sounds lovely.
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But not all sellers ARE honest, and it will be impossible for a buyer to know whether she is or not. The problem with the 'lightly backed and turned away and will be easy to re back' approach is that it increases the potential market for the horse so much for it to have been ridden away that it is difficult for the buyer to see why it would not have already been done if it was going to be easy.

When I bought my two this spring, I had no idea if either of the sellers had routinely been hitting the floor, or not. I didn't know them from Adam. The first one was small and not much money and I didn't mind. The second I have got the dealer to back for me. She was as genuine as they come and the horse has been as easy as she said he would be.

If only one person a year lies, it still means you can't automatically trust any seller, it might be the one :)

I sell occasionally too, and I know how irritating it is when other sellers make people mistrust you. I think the man who bought my hunter a month ago is going to be on tenterhooks about whether he really will jump hedges over six feet high, until he does one.
 
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cptrayes said:
Turning away is a habit only the British routinely follow.
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Being in Britain as I assume the OP is this doesn't seem terrible relevant ;)

Although I can see your point about being concerned about a horse advertised as lightly backed which then can't be sat on to demonstrate as such.
 
Amicus said:
Being in Britain as I assume the OP is this doesn't seem terrible relevant ;)
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What is not relevant about the fact that every other country in the world believes it to be unnecessary, as do many people in this country, when the poster said 'I thought you were SUPPOSED to turn away' :D
 
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cptrayes said:
But not all sellers ARE honest, and it will be impossible for a buyer to know whether she is or not. The problem with the 'lightly backed and turned away and will be easy to re back' approach is that it increases the potential market for the horse so much for it to have been ridden away that it is difficult for the buyer to see why it would not have already been done if it was going to be easy.

When I bought my two this spring, I had no idea if either of the sellers had routinely been hitting the floor, or not. I didn't know them from Adam. The first one was small and not much money and I didn't mind. The second I have got the dealer to back for me. She was as genuine as they come and the horse has been as easy as she said he would be.

If only one person a year lies, it still means you can't automatically trust any seller, it might be the one :)

I sell occasionally too, and I know how irritating it is when other sellers make people mistrust you. I think the man who bought my hunter a month ago is going to be on tenterhooks about whether he really will jump hedges over six feet high, until he does one.
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But if the OP hadn't lightly backed him, he'd be a blank canvas and there are still no guarantees that people won't still hit the floor when introduced to riding....

The other trouble is that horses have brains for themselves so you can only ever tell people how they've been under your care. I had a cob mare who was really dominant in the field for the whole time I owned her. She went off on loan, with warnings of this and of her being territorial with her mum in the field.... and she was completely ruled by the gelding in her new field. I would never have believed it, had I not witnessed it! New owner could have accused me of lying, but you just never know how they'll behave under new ownership and in a new environment.....
 
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Coblover63 said:
But if the OP hadn't lightly backed him, he'd be a blank canvas and there are still no guarantees that people won't still hit the floor when introduced to riding....
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Which is exactly why a horse which can be seen ridden will generally fetch a fair bit more money, and in turn that is why it raises questions when someone says a horse will be easy to re back - if it will be easy why has it not been done?

It reduces the uncertainty to see the horse ridden, it does not remove it, but every little helps :)
 
I think there is a market for your horse at the right price. Whilst the fact he'd been turned away probably wouldn't worry me if I felt the seller was genuine there would always be the chance that there had been a problem or soundness issue. I also think his colour will have an influence on some people, whilst I'm very much of the opinion that a "good horse is never a bad colour" some people will see him as a way to fulfil their childhood dreams of golden ponies so for the horse's sake try an ensure any buyer is competent.
 
I personally would prefer to buy a four year old that was unbacked. I too would be questioning why he hadn't been started this year yet. It would only take a few weeks to get him back to the stage he was last year, the buyer would then be able to have a sit on him. I think you would get a lot more response.
 
We don't turn away our newly backed horses; they are backed in whatever year we decide they are ready and then once backed they are kept ticking over. If they are going to be for sale then they'll be ridden lightly over the winter and then this will be ramped up a bit prior to advertising them for sale so that they are ready for buyers to get on and see whether they're a match or not. OP if he'll only take a few weeks to get back up to par again then that is what I would do as it will make him more saleable and the figure you ask will be greater than it would be for an unbacked horse. If you advertise him as lightly backed and then turned away, viewers may still want to see him ridden, so my advice would be to either back him again and have him riding out, or not make too much of him being previously backed.
 
Maesfen said:
Why on earth would you question it? When people took more time over their breaking in , that was exactly what usually happened; the horse would be lunged, long reined and then backed, ridden a few days and then put away until the following year when the horse would come back stronger and more mentally ready to progress remembering the lessons before; nothing unusual at all about it. Nowadays people are in too much hurry which isn't good for the horses so for an experienced person, the Op's situation is ideal as the horse has grown and strengthened up so is ready to progress.
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I guess it's all down to perspectives really. My view is if a horse is backed and then turned away to grow both mentally and physically, then the horse was backed too early and should have been left until the next year when it was ready, so therefore the 'rush' was starting to do something with the horse too soon.
 
cptrayes said:
Maesfen, the thing i question is why it has not been re backed this year for sale, not the fact that it was turned away. It rings big alarm bells with me if someone says a horse has been sat on but can't show me it sat on when I go to view. I don't think there is anything worse than trying to back a horse someone else has already made a bodge of.
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And me, I've been caught out more than once with apparently unbacked or backed and turned away horses that turn out to have very established issues when we come to working them.
 
I think the simple answer is no unless he is exactly what one individual is looking for but then again I have found that unless they are very established in everything then the market is limited then too so you may or may not find the right person for him but one thing is for sure you wont if you don't try. If he had been a filly I may have been mildly interest although he is a bit big for my riders. I have excellent riders to bring on youngsters but not everyone is capable or should be let loose with one. If you want to find the very best home for him it may well take quite a bit of time
 
OP I think your plan, pages back, of advertising him unbroken to see what happens, then getting him backed if nobody is interested is the best plan.
 
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