Is there a supplement to fix stupid? Or at least help with focus

[tobiano1984]

Just wondering if anyone has found a supplement that helps particularly stupid horses to focus and engage the brain?! Or any other training gems that I may not have already tried...

A couple of years ago I went off my usual clever, sensible Heinz 57 piste and bought a very pretty warmblood 3yo - stunning, lovely German dressage & SJ breeding, sweet temperament. With the idea to bring on and sell. Nearly 2 years later I really need to get on with selling him, but I take issue with selling something I'm not 100% happy with, and we're about 95% there.

Today my trainer rode him for the first time in a while, and agreed that he lacks focus and brain. It doesn't help that I am used to super smart mongrels who have evolved some degree of self preservation and wit, and understand the concept of 'do it well and life is easier'. She suggested looking at calmer type supplements that would maybe give some focus and stop the distractability.

Said baby is not dangerous, or particularly sharp (but too sharp to be a novice/RC type horse unfortunately), there is just a loose connection, as my trainer described it. When it is connected, he produces lovely work and is responsive to aids, and then a few seconds later the connection has gone and the (small) brain is no longer with you, the most enthusiastic pony club kicks get no response, bending around the leg goes out the window, steering does too to some extent, and transitions become some sort of alien concept. Along with the emergence of definite monsters that weren't in the corner the last 10 times you've passed it.

I must stress that this horse is in no way under pressure - he hacks out a few times a week, schools maybe twice a week for 20-30 mins, lesson every fortnight, bit of polework here or there, it is not intensive by any means. He has plenty of time out in the field. Out hacking he is keen and forward, but again the brain can disappear into its own world, especially disconcerting when you have a vehicle passing you and you know full well that he is reciting Latin verbs to himself (I wish) and has no idea what is happening externally. He has been known to plod along the road perfectly happily and then suddenly realise that he's not in the same place he was 5 minutes ago and take fright at the flower that definitely wasn't next to him last time his brain and eyes registered. A couple of weeks ago he fell over on the road in a similar state of internal conversation (not a bad fall, kept his feet and his rider but only just). As you've probably guessed, jumping is particularly terrifying - he will pop a fence happily, come round again, lights on but no one is home any more, and crash - poles everywhere, horse and rider everywhere, just carries on pootling along like nothing happened. He is sure footed out hacking when he is concentrating, and over poles, so definitely not got any neuro deficits. His footwork is coordinated in the school, doesn't struggle with SI or LY when we're in the right mood.
Never bucks, never bolts, never spins - spooks tend to be slow drawn out affairs - i.e. spotting an invisible monster that wasn't there last time round, and drifting away from it with total loss of rider/horse connection.

It is driving me mad, I thought it might just be because I'm more of a fan of clever ponies but then after my trainer rode him, who is used to dealing with warmbloods, she said he is particularly thick and it's not just me! Has anyone else had one like this? Do they grow a brain eventually? Is there anything further I can do? It's so frustrating because he is 95% perfect, if only I could capture his concentration and engage the brain!

 

[ycbm]

Got one just like it and you aren't going to like my answer!

Mines not WB, he's a QHxID/TB but he sounds exactly like yours. He has improved and improved since he was backed at four, just agonisingly slowly. I've done the neuro tests on him more times than I can count, there are just days when you would swear his brain is not connected to his legs.

I think I have another year to go before his brain gets anywhere near his physical age. At seven, he is like a backward five year old.

So I'm two years ahead of you, and yes they get better and the good work gets longer and longer and is quite brilliant at times. That doesn't really help you if you want to sell, I just wanted you to know that you are not alone.

The one thing I am sure would help is a season hunting, but I don't hunt any more and I don't want to send mine out with anyone else on him.

 

[DabDab]

Hahaha, sorry, probably shouldn't laugh....my friend has one exactly like this. He is the only horse I have seen walk into a hedge (buckle end riding) because he was busy gawping in the other direction, and then stand with a look of complete puzzlement as to why he was immersed in hedge.
He was actually very clever when he was switched on and learnt stuff super quick, but once the brain had fallen out he was about as much use as a chocolate teapot.
I can't say she has ever really cured him of it, but I know she found clicker training and horse agility type stuff really helpful for extending the concentration span (though they aren't training techniques she'd usual employ)

 

[rachk89]

Yeah dunno if there is a cure. My horse isnt nearly as bad but he will walk into jump wings if left to walk on his own in the school.

 

[tobiano1984]

Thanks guys - at least good to know I'm not alone! Interesting re the horse agility stuff DabDab, as polework (interesting patterns etc) is about the only thing he actively engages in, weird that he is careful with poles but not with jumps! Mine also picks work up really quickly when he's engaged, and doesn't forget it - so if you can get his attention he does do some lovely work. Big IF.

 

[ycbm]

Thanks guys - at least good to know I'm not alone! Interesting re the horse agility stuff DabDab, as polework (interesting patterns etc) is about the only thing he actively engages in, weird that he is careful with poles but not with jumps! Mine also picks work up really quickly when he's engaged, and doesn't forget it - so if you can get his attention he does do some lovely work. Big IF.

Mine is like this. Never forgets a thing he's actually learnt. I have often felt he is really bright, but has a kind of autism, where there are too many inputs and he zones out. But for retention of learning, I've never had a horse as good. It's just that he learns sooooooo slowly.

 

[be positive]

Have you tried doing several days schooling in a row then a few days to take it in, there is no need to put more pressure on but if he is losing focus it can sometimes help to have a few "boot camp" days, keep it short and sweet if you can, to get them really making progress, I often do this when starting jumping youngsters, several short sessions for 3, 4 or even 5 days then a 3 day away from the school completely, some sessions may be extremely short, just 4 or 5 pops after a warm up but it seems to help consolidate the less focused individuals and allow decent progress rather than going back to square 1 each time, there is no reason the same cannot work for flatwork and may be what you need to do to get the penny to drop with his jumping.

 

[claracanter]

I have a German WB- a Westphalian and your horse sounds a lot like him. He spooks at daffodils, his shadow and monsters I can't see anywhere. It just seems to be his way and he's 14. He's hopeless at trot poles, does them by braille but has a great jump.
Here he is spooking/posing at a photographer whilst show jumping. He did jump a clear though.
http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s431/ttangledweb/cg1-2_1.jpg

 

[Auslander]

Is he turned out with other horses, and does he do any loose schooling/jumping?

He sounds rather like my Ramiro Z, who was a complete pleb as a youngster. He lacked any ability to think for himself, and was away with the fairies. I turned him out with 3 native ponies, who gave him a very hard time - which switched the lights on for him very successfully. If he wasn't on the ball, he was in trouble!
Loose schooling was also helpful - as it forced him to think, rather than relying on me to make decisions for him!

 

[claracanter]

. ..

 

[rachk89]

Is he turned out with other horses, and does he do any loose schooling/jumping?

He sounds rather like my Ramiro Z, who was a complete pleb as a youngster. He lacked any ability to think for himself, and was away with the fairies. I turned him out with 3 native ponies, who gave him a very hard time - which switched the lights on for him very successfully. If he wasn't on the ball, he was in trouble!
Loose schooling was also helpful - as it forced him to think, rather than relying on me to make decisions for him!

Oddly mine is related to Ramiro z too. My instructors just say that my horse is like the naughty schoolboy in the classroom who is looking out of the 'window' (arena) at something that has distracted him. But if you ask him to concentrate he does but "shiny" things distract him again after a while. He is 8 and is improving so there's hope yet for you.

 

[rowan666]

Mines exactly the same! Had him 7 years and haven't really found an answer tbh, lots of transitions help get him a little focused but other than that I've just learnt accept that his brain is away with the fairy's and crack on, all the plans we initially made have been dropped and he's only ever going to be a happy hacker

 

[Amye]

Oh no sounds a bit like my WB (he's 16 on Wednesday!).

When he's gawping at something it is SO hard to get his attention - turning his head is even difficult. And if there's something to spot - he'll spot it! Even if other horses haven't.

He's got better since i've owned him. He's not so careful with poles, but I do find that having poles out keeps him focused more then a bare arena. I also put TREC style obstacles out (bending poles, cones for neck reining) and this seems to keep him a bit more focused.

I don't know if there's any 'cure' for it, some days he just gawps at everything but this has become less since i've been doing more with him and keeping everything varied, schooling, hacking, long reining. I also do clicker training with him and he loves this, he can still get distracted but it's much easier to get his attention back as he loves food!!

I like the naughty schoolboy analogy!

 

[Cortez]

Warmbloods have been bred to be trained, not to think for themselves. They're a bit like computers (or bank accounts): you only get out what you put in. Some are thicker than others, but you have to work with what you've got and actually a somewhat dim horse is easier to train than a very bright one

 

[ester]

I was going to say similar to be positive as to whether schooling on consecutive days might help?

 

[ycbm]

Warmbloods have been bred to be trained, not to think for themselves. They're a bit like computers (or bank accounts): you only get out what you put in. Some are thicker than others, but you have to work with what you've got and actually a somewhat dim horse is easier to train than a very bright one

I'm not sure we are describing dim horses, though, Cortez. Mine isn't a warmblood, granted, but he sounds very similar. What he learns he learns very quickly, but his attention span suggests his farther was a goldfish. When alert he is always alert for any possible danger and has to be persuaded that his rider can keep him safe before he can concentrate on work. And if you pressure him he will shut down. A mist comes over his eyes and he seems to disappear somewhere inside himself. In that state, you could probably beat him and he wouldn't respond. He's a lot better now he's older, but in the past if you were walking past him and he'd gone into his trance and you didn't notice, and touched him, he would jump out of his skin.

He's agonisingly slow to learn but in his case, at least, it isn't because he's dim, and possibly completely the reverse. He's the only horse I've had who has ever watched me open a spring trigger gate latch and copied it later to escape.

 

[Sukistokes2]

My cob is like this, he grew up at about ten but still has the ability to zone out and fall flat on his face. He is 19 now.

 

[Darkwater]

I have a part bred TB pony who is exactly like this. I have had her since she was 2, now nearly 6 and although she has always been fairly easy to deal with, she is very much in a world of her own a lot of the time. I've never met another pony quite like her. I've tried feeding a calmer in the past and it had no useful effect, and i'm afraid I don't have any useful advice but will be watching this thread with a lot of interest

 

[tobiano1984]

I will give the consecutive day thing a go - he hacked yesterday, schooled today and went reasonably (for him) - so will school tomorrow and Friday too and then he can have 3 days off while I'm away, to think about it. He's so odd, he repeats the same idiotic things over and over again and gets reprimanded (i.e. if he spooks at non-existing things I just push him on, keep circling back round until he stops being a doofus and once he goes past like a normal horse I reward him with easier work/a break) but when he goes well and you praise him he LOVES it, now why can't he put 2+2 together?! He learns so quickly in some ways, it took about 3 repetitions today before he started doing super halt to trot transitions with minimal aids, but then the slightly-different-coloured-tree on the other side of the fence remained scary for every single lap of the school. Sometimes he forgot it was there, but remembered it a few laps later. Infuriating! I almost wish he was always useless, then I would give up and sell him as a giant pretty pet, but the moments of brilliance make me determined to persevere and get the best out of him..!

 

[Slightlyconfused]

I have a German WB- a Westphalian and your horse sounds a lot like him. He spooks at daffodils, his shadow and monsters I can't see anywhere. It just seems to be his way and he's 14. He's hopeless at trot poles, does them by braille but has a great jump.
Here he is spooking/posing at a photographer whilst show jumping. He did jump a clear though.
http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s431/ttangledweb/cg1-2_1.jpg

Sorry but that is a brilliant picture! 😂😂

 

[Slightlyconfused]

I will give the consecutive day thing a go - he hacked yesterday, schooled today and went reasonably (for him) - so will school tomorrow and Friday too and then he can have 3 days off while I'm away, to think about it. He's so odd, he repeats the same idiotic things over and over again and gets reprimanded (i.e. if he spooks at non-existing things I just push him on, keep circling back round until he stops being a doofus and once he goes past like a normal horse I reward him with easier work/a break) but when he goes well and you praise him he LOVES it, now why can't he put 2+2 together?! He learns so quickly in some ways, it took about 3 repetitions today before he started doing super halt to trot transitions with minimal aids, but then the slightly-different-coloured-tree on the other side of the fence remained scary for every single lap of the school. Sometimes he forgot it was there, but remembered it a few laps later. Infuriating! I almost wish he was always useless, then I would give up and sell him as a giant pretty pet, but the moments of brilliance make me determined to persevere and get the best out of him..!

Completely out of the box but have you had his eyes checked?
I knew of a wb like yours and he did have floaters in his eyes (just talking about it with someone as it came up in conversation) that's why he was spooking at stuff he has previously walked past.
Other than that she found a good vit supplement did help a bit.

 

[blitznbobs]

Try ear plugs can make a huge difference with young horses

 

[TandD]

Cool calm and collected by equifeast helps my mare. She likes nothing better than looking out across the fields rather than schooling. It's the amount of magnesium that she is getting that affects her, recently changed her feed a bit so working on getting the right level for her again. Too much mag and she's like a ticking time bomb ready to explode, to little and it's like riding a gold fish!