is there anything i can feed that gives the same 'sugar rush' as haylege?

LeannePip

LeannePip

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this could get long - you have been warned!!

my horse is quite backwards thinking, very laid back and verging on lazy and is quite hard work!! shes only a baby (4) but its hard to teach her anything when all im doing is trying to get some forwards gears it would be nice to have a little bit of 'fizz' to play with. she spent 6months with me at an event yard where she was on haylege and although still well behaved we had alot more fizz and she would even be a little bit naughty! :eek: which i dont mind! adds to the fun but atleast i had something to work with - now shes back at home on hay shes so un hyped up when we go hacking any other horse would love to 'let rip' not pip - shed rather wander round and enjoy the scenery!! any way since shes come home shes back on steamed hay (prone to a cough) i'd like to have her back on haylege to see if we can get some fizz back but she shares a field with her best friend my mums horse who gains weight just looking at anything more than a bare paddock - they are in starvation field overnight with hay - have 3 hours after breakfast on the nice grass then into a less grassy field untill we ride/tea time. i've introduced oats into her diet shes now upto half a scoop twice a day +a scoop of showshine and a handfull of nuts in each feed - we've used a whole bag of oats now and theres been no difference what so ever in her 'moveability'! so is there anything i could try her on feed wise or supplement wise that would give 'haylege rush' with out the need for haylege?? the only other thing i could think of that might cause her behaviour to change was that we were away over winter and she was clipped and maybe feeling fresh but the change was almost instant - as soon as she came home she was back in dobbin mode or is she just more chilled back at home? any other suggestions other than feed would be fab!! Please help us!! Choccy Biscuits if you got this far :D
 
Maybe she's just a laid back horse?! Just like mine........I've learnt to enjoy him :) however if she does't get fizzed up by oats, then it would be a case of some schooling or trying something like Propell plus or a competition mix.

Personally I don't like to feed anything with a high sugar/starch content, but not my decision
 
Has she had a break yet? She was in quite hard work as a 3yr old, perhaps she's just a bit jaded and needs a holiday. She'll probably come back bigger and stronger and mentally more ready to take thing on - I think people underestimate the power of turning away after back ing and riding away.

You could always send her down to me. My supposedly sensible dressage schoolmaster has turned into a raving loony after a week off, some grass and very little hard feed. I don't know what's got into him - but I like it!
 
Hi have you tried a good vitiamin and mineral suplement, or balancer if the grazing is minimal, and she is being only a hanfull of nuts (not recmended daily) , oats, and show shine she might not be getting enough espiacail as she is only 3 and still growing ?
 
thanks for your replys - sorry she does have a nutball everyday as well with two cups of nuts in which i forgot to mention, will try and find a good vit +min supplement as well and she is off on holiday on the 3rd of july so just experimenting untill then she'll then come back at the begining of august so that may well help her, thanks for the offer auslander where abouts are you? we do have good grazing but both of them are quite good dooers so the starvation is for weight managment!! i think i'll try a comp mix after her holiday as our feed stock should have run out by then! he schooling is at a good level for her age and she goes very sweetly just at a much slower pace! dont get me wrong - i love how laid back she is, just wish sometimes there was something else there!! at the show the other day we were walking round and one of the marquues took off and flew right into out ring - she barely even noticed!
 
I think you have a horse many people would love to own, if you want a forward going type you have to buy one!
It may be youth, just try things like Trec and allow her to grow in to herself. 24/7 grass is best.
 
Okay, two things:

Firstly, horses are often more fizzy at competition yards because they are 'hyped up' and usually stabled for longer periods. I have a WB here that was very fizzy at the large comp yard he was at before arriving here. But once he arrived here and settled down to being out 24/7 in the summer, he has become really laid back. So much so, that last year his owner had me feeding him up on oats (two large scoops a day in fact) and it didn't make the slightest difference. He has become so relaxed and laid back here. However, I have managed to get him much more off the leg in his schooling. His owner had been nagging too much with her legs. We worked together through me schooling and lunging him and giving her lessons, so that he is a nice mixture of laid back but responsive. So with your mare, it may be a schooling issue.

Secondly, it sounds as though you have a mare whose nutritional needs are far in excess to your Mum's horse. Therefore, I would separate them off for at least half of the time and either have your mare on the lush grazing, or feed her haylage. IME hard feed does very little to add 'umph' to a horse, except for those horses that are naturally fizzy, and which if fed high energy feeds such as oats, will explode.
 
Miss L Toe said:
I think you have a horse many people would love to own, if you want a forward going type you have to buy one!
It may be youth, just try things like Trec and allow her to grow in to herself. 24/7 grass is best.
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i do love owning her i am extremly lucky i dont want a forward going 'type' i just want her to be a little more forward we are working on this with schooling aswell and it is coming, i just think she needs something a little extra. she is already at grass 24/7 but for management issues they both need to use the starvation paddock to stop them getting too fat as they are both native types

Wagtail said:
Okay, two things:

Firstly, horses are often more fizzy at competition yards because they are 'hyped up' and usually stabled for longer periods. I have a WB here that was very fizzy at the large comp yard he was at before arriving here. But once he arrived here and settled down to being out 24/7 in the summer, he has become really laid back. So much so, that last year his owner had me feeding him up on oats (two large scoops a day in fact) and it didn't make the slightest difference. He has become so relaxed and laid back here. However, I have managed to get him much more off the leg in his schooling. His owner had been nagging too much with her legs. We worked together through me schooling and lunging him and giving her lessons, so that he is a nice mixture of laid back but responsive. So with your mare, it may be a schooling issue.

Secondly, it sounds as though you have a mare whose nutritional needs are far in excess to your Mum's horse. Therefore, I would separate them off for at least half of the time and either have your mare on the lush grazing, or feed her haylage. IME hard feed does very little to add 'umph' to a horse, except for those horses that are naturally fizzy, and which if fed high energy feeds such as oats, will explode.
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i thought aswell it might have been the yard change aswell as i said perhaps shes just more relaxed here :) i am finding this to be the case - think i'll wean her off the oats and go from there as they havent done a thing! seperating them is something i would like to do will speak to YO about this, we are working on the more off the leg and it is getting much better and she is so much better than she was i have a lesson on her once a week she is then ridden in the school once maybe two other days of the week and hacked twice and usually has 2 days off - sometimes 3 somtimes four - i just think she needs a little extra help. thank you all :)

purplestar said:
Hi have you tried a good vitiamin and mineral suplement, or balancer if the grazing is minimal, and she is being only a hanfull of nuts (not recmended daily) , oats, and show shine she might not be getting enough espiacail as she is only 3 and still growing ?
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im going to try and find her a good supplement as think she is lacking vits and mins she has a mineral lick but maybe this is not enough, can i ask what i shouldnt be feeding her daily? i thought you could feed nuts every day?
 
She is very young. I imagine she will become more forward with age and appropriate schooling. I also agree with Aus about turning her away. Mine has certainly become exponentially more forward as he's grown into himself.
 
24/7 turnout can turn some horses into complete slugs!!! Fab for the sharper ones but not so great for the more laid back.

Perhaps consider stabling for part of the day before you ride?

Other options would be to include propell/EnerG/red cell type suppliment.

The biggest thing though is fitness and reactivity when schooling.

I also agree on the regular breaks at this age, she will still be growing and using a lot of energy for that!
 
JFTD said:
She is very young. I imagine she will become more forward with age and appropriate schooling. I also agree with Aus about turning her away. Mine has certainly become exponentially more forward as he's grown into himself.
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thank you - shes got a holiday booked for the whole of july so im looking forward to what she might comeback like!

ihatework said:
24/7 turnout can turn some horses into complete slugs!!! Fab for the sharper ones but not so great for the more laid back.

Perhaps consider stabling for part of the day before you ride?

Other options would be to include propell/EnerG/red cell type suppliment.

The biggest thing though is fitness and reactivity when schooling.

I also agree on the regular breaks at this age, she will still be growing and using a lot of energy for that!
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thank you im going to try one of those suppliments afterall it cant harm to try it! unfortunatly shes on grass livery so would have to have a word with YO about borrowing a stable for a few hours - she does quite often have small breaks every few weeks as mini holidays and her big holiday is in july :)
 
Definitely at 4 take things easy. My boy,5, gets tired, and I know when to slacken off, or even give a full week or more off . When you think that all the bone plates aren't fully in place till (is it ?) eight years old, there is a lot of growing still to do.

Shy has become much more forward going, the more we do - he seems to love life ! One thing I do use when we need more "oooomph" for shows etc is his GoGo juice - Naf EnRG syringes. Work a treat :)
 
Sorry, but this is a schooling issue. If your horse looks well, is well covered (but not fat, of course), then she is receiving all the energy she needs. To get her more forward she needs to be schooled to respond to your forward aids (this means leg, or leg + a flick with a whip). This takes work, on your part and on hers. Some horses are more responsive than others naturally, and judging by a lot of peoples' problems, perhaps the majority are more responsive than their owners would appreciate?
 
Cortez said:
Sorry, but this is a schooling issue. If your horse looks well, is well covered (but not fat, of course), then she is receiving all the energy she needs. To get her more forward she needs to be schooled to respond to your forward aids (this means leg, or leg + a flick with a whip). This takes work, on your part and on hers. Some horses are more responsive than others naturally, and judging by a lot of peoples' problems, perhaps the majority are more responsive than their owners would appreciate?
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thank you for you input but as i already have said she is being schooled and going well - this is something we are working on :) im not looking for a quick fix just something to help
 
Sounds like she desperately needs a break. I know you are letting her off for July but I wouldn't consider that long enough. By contrast our four year old was bought at August National Hunt sale last year. Broken straight away and started cantering. Turned away for two weeks in November. Started slow again and in work till end Feb then another week or two break. Then back in and work stepped up until mid May by which time he had schooled over hurdles and fences and been in two schooling bumpers. He was then turned away and will not be brought in till July 1st when he will do 6 weeks roadwork and then start training for an Autumn campaign. Had we decided he was forward enough for a Spring campaign he'd have had the whole of November off and rather than break in Feb just dropped work levels for a week or two. At four they are learning and growing...it's a lot for the system to cope with
 
You shouldn't really feed to add energy/fizz, more to replace energy lost. So if your horse is in good condition then as others have said its more of a schooling issue and is more likely a lack of fitness and or vits and minerals. I've had fantastic results with baileys lo cal balancer and a bag last ages :)

A break will do her good x
 
Usual reasons for a lack of forwardness in youngsters are lack of variety ie all schooling and no hacking, being in need of a break and schooling issues. From a feed perspective it is more usually a lack of or excess of a particular mineral. You could try forage analysis or feed a general mineral supplement.
 
amage said:
Sounds like she desperately needs a break. I know you are letting her off for July but I wouldn't consider that long enough. By contrast our four year old was bought at August National Hunt sale last year. Broken straight away and started cantering. Turned away for two weeks in November. Started slow again and in work till end Feb then another week or two break. Then back in and work stepped up until mid May by which time he had schooled over hurdles and fences and been in two schooling bumpers. He was then turned away and will not be brought in till July 1st when he will do 6 weeks roadwork and then start training for an Autumn campaign. Had we decided he was forward enough for a Spring campaign he'd have had the whole of November off and rather than break in Feb just dropped work levels for a week or two. At four they are learning and growing...it's a lot for the system to cope with
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i dont understand why people on here are always assuming i dont give her time off despite saying it time and time again? on an average week yes she will school twice and hack twice and maybe one other session, its not uncommon for her to have a week off every few weeks or two weeks for that matter? she was backed this time last year she then hacked over the summer and had 6 weeks off. she has a planned holiday for july - if she needs longer she can have longer - i dont run her on a strict reigime. im sorry if that came across as rude but everytime i post on here im told my horse needs a break and everytime i explain that she does have breaks - she spends a week or so in the field being a horse - she is hardly on a strict training programme and by no means in hard work

Cocorules said:
Usual reasons for a lack of forwardness in youngsters are lack of variety ie all schooling and no hacking, being in need of a break and schooling issues. From a feed perspective it is more usually a lack of or excess of a particular mineral. You could try forage analysis or feed a general mineral supplement.
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what mineral supplement would you suggest? i have tryed 'vits and mins' but she didnt like and and would barely eat her feed? i've just started her on equine america Pro-pell as an iron supplement - shes only on hay and mixed grazing forage wise? can you analyse this? her hay is steamed aswell so would that be taking an nutrients out of the hay?

Horses24-7 said:
You shouldn't really feed to add energy/fizz, more to replace energy lost. So if your horse is in good condition then as others have said its more of a schooling issue and is more likely a lack of fitness and or vits and minerals. I've had fantastic results with baileys lo cal balancer and a bag last ages :)

A break will do her good x
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thank you will try the baileys balancer - have just started her on pro-pell - another sugestion on here but and just going by trial and error so that may be my next port of call - i try very hard to give her variety in her work so i do hope it isnt that! - she schools hacks - walks to the pub - goes showing - does a bit of jumping - and has been x-country schooling - and has finally learn to lunge!! :) the fitness is something im working on but with her not being in hard work its hard to build fitness although it is getting there, thank you
 
Blue chip gave my horse more stamina for work. Schooling in a field so we could have a blast up the hill every 10 min helped his enthusiasm, as did varying the hacking routes. If we did the same route two days in a row he'd switch off because he got bored, he likes exploring. When competing I'd stable him overnight and give half a mug of competition mix in his breakfast, both helped. Also he goes best when fit, I guess the work feels easier.
 
How about doing away with going in the school at all for a month and just hacking out, you can sneak schooling moves in out on a hack without it being 'boring' for the horse, that way you'll keep it as fresh as possible. I'd go with a proper break from the school environment... Not just a week, most of my schooling is always done on hacks no matter what the horse. I wouldn't do anything about changing feed to be honest, there is a lot of sugar in the grass at the moment. If you were feeding for stamina and energy in a high level competition horse I'd be saying different but in a 4yo, forage and bit and minerals and fun work, it sounds to me like it could well be linked to enthusiasm more than energy... Make it as fun as possible for your horse and loads of praise... Sometimes this is the best tonic for giving them a bit of a zing :D
 
She sounds like my friends ID. she used to pray there was a helicopter at the shows as it might wake her up a bit especially as she had to get a move on when the judges rode her.
 
Hi there,

I understand what you're going through and it is easy to think feed is the answer and to some extent it is but I wouldn't personally go down the high sugar route as she is native and a good doer!

My welsh pbr
 
Grrrr and again!!! My welsh pbr was very similar to your mare, soo laid back she was almost horizontal, she was backed lightly as a 3 yr old off for the winter then brought on slowly as a 4 yr old and off for the winter again as she was still growing then started doing a lot more as a 5 yr old but I was constantly worried about her energy levels, I tried oats and nag enerG etc but nothing really worked 100%

This year (she's just turned 6) and towards the end of last year has been the turn around she seems to have finished having such massive growth spurts and has found her go button!!!! She is beautifully forward and loves her work.

I would say that it is a combination of 4 things that you need for her to find her "fizz"

1. Short but effective schooling sessions that focus on getting her quick off your leg, not letting her slop along on hacks ensure she walks out at all times.

2. Getting her vitamin and mineral balance right so that she can utilise the energy that she is getting from the forage/feed you are giving her, I use baileys lo cal balancer fed at the recommended amount and it is brilliant!

3. Time, she is probably still growing which takes a lot of energy and she is a sensible native so she will be concentrating her energy on doing this right!

4. Patience, I know it can seem frustrating, I don't know how many people told me I was going to sell mine as she was not enough for me but i am so glad I didn't, she is still laid back and easy to do but my word can she turn her hoof to anything!! She jumps anything you put her at and can turn on a sixpence, she grows a hand when doing flatwork and is showing such great promise and finally (the bit I was most worried about!) she's found her go button and loves a good gallop across the plains!


Don't despair it will come and you will be so pleased!

Would just like to point out that despite being this laid back mine is the spookiest horse I know and as a stubborn welshy can be a little bugger he be!!!
 
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