Is there such a thing as slow release feed for chubby IDx?

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OldieButGoodie

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I have a 8yo 16.1hh IDx gelding. He is a lovely natured and gentle animal who is unfortunately a very good doer and as such at high risk of laminitis. I'm not the world's most confident rider so don't cope well with sharpness or spookiness but thankfully my big fella is reasonably sane and spooks are rare events.

Unfortunately he can be rather lethargic (I prefer 'laid back' lol) and although this hasn't been a problem in the past I'm now trying to do a bit of dressage on him. Trouble is after the initial burst of energy after he's arrived at the venue he then flatlines - usually during the test (this prompts lots of comments like 'lazy' 'lacks impulsion' etc). Its such a shame as he usually has a really nice way of going and tries his heart out for you.

I had a chat with my instructor yesterday and she suggested he might need a feed that would give him more energy yet not make him put on the beef or turn him fizzy. She suggested a slow release type of feed might help.

He is currently fed a handful of mollichaff calmer with half scoop speedibeet and pro hoof twice a day. He's turned out on restricted grazing overnight and given approx 6kg timothy haylage during day when he's in.

Any suggestions out there please??
 
It doesn't really work like that - what he lacks is motivation, not energy. I was told once that it takes 3 days to tire a horse out! As prey animals they are hard wired to conserve energy in case they need it to escape a predator, your job is to motivate him to use it when you want him to.You need to ensure he responds to your leg, and that it hasn't become white noise due to nagging.
Mine can be a bit like that, and I first of all ensure I'm not leaning forward and blocking him. Then I do lots of transitions, to lift him off his forehand and teach him to listen to my leg. I make a point of keeping my legs clearly off him until I use them, and if he fails to respond give a clear nudge. If he doesn't listen to that, follow with your whip - if hitting him worries you, smack your boot for the noise.
I also remove the risk of nagging (and it is a temptation lol) by expecting him to pick up a pace and then stay with it until he is told otherwise, and keep legs off until another transition is needed. If he slows or breaks, use the whip again just once until it never crosses his mind.
I'd be looking for an instructor who can address those sort of problems.
 
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I would not be feeding him but getting him fitter.

Feed is not going to help his weight, and generally once they've trimmed up a bit and have a higher level of fitness you wouldn't need to feed for energy.
 
Being fat makes horses feel lazy .
The answer is more work and less or the same food .
However I have been through all this with Fatty and what I found with him was I needed to give a very high quality balancer ( he gets the forage plus winter performance balancer all year round ) and some high quality protein every day in winter he gets some oats and micronised linseed and in summer he gets the supplement myoplast .
It's made a huge difference to his attitude to work.
There's no quick fix with these very good doers it's a slog to get them slim and fit and stay on top of it .
I have never seen any horse hold its weight like Fatty does .
 
JillA said:
It doesn't really work like that - what he lacks is motivation, not energy. I was told once that it takes 3 days to tire a horse out! As prey animals they are hard wired to conserve energy in case they need it to escape a predator, your job is to motivate him to use it when you want him to.You need to ensure he responds to your leg, and that it hasn't become white noise due to nagging.
Mine can be a bit like that, and I first of all ensure I'm not leaning forward and blocking him. Then I do lots of transitions, to lift him off his forehand and teach him to listen to my leg. I make a point of keeping my legs clearly off him until I use them, and if he fails to respond give a clear nudge. If he doesn't listen to that, follow with your whip - if hitting him worries you, smack your boot for the noise.
I also remove the risk of nagging (and it is a temptation lol) by expecting him to pick up a pace and then stay with it until he is told otherwise, and keep legs off until another transition is needed. If he slows or breaks, use the whip again just once until it never crosses his mind.
I'd be looking for an instructor who can address those sort of problems.
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Thanks! That's exactly the sort of thing I've been doing with him (weekly lessons, lots of transitions, legs / hands quiet until I want another transition, using a whip as back up etc etc) and its all going really well - at home. Take him out of his comfort zone and he literally switches off. Trouble is in a test I don't feel like I can use the whip on him, although I carry one, and I'm really careful not to block him. Usually in the warm up he goes beautifully so I'm wondering if it is insecurity rather than lack of energy because maybe he just doesn't like being in the test arena alone? There can be occasions when I feel him napping towards the 'exit' - i.e. where the other horses are.

Its such a shame as he has such presence and ability but there is just nothing there when I get him in the test arena. I'm also careful with the warm up - plenty of walking and flexing to loosen him up then transitions - like we do at home.
 
It sounds like a combination of being overweight/fitness and anxiety/competition nerves. That will be solved by time, exercise and training rather than feed.
 
OldieButGoodie said:
Thanks! That's exactly the sort of thing I've been doing with him (weekly lessons, lots of transitions, legs / hands quiet until I want another transition, using a whip as back up etc etc) and its all going really well - at home. Take him out of his comfort zone and he literally switches off. Trouble is in a test I don't feel like I can use the whip on him, although I carry one, and I'm really careful not to block him. Usually in the warm up he goes beautifully so I'm wondering if it is insecurity rather than lack of energy because maybe he just doesn't like being in the test arena alone? There can be occasions when I feel him napping towards the 'exit' - i.e. where the other horses are.

Its such a shame as he has such presence and ability but there is just nothing there when I get him in the test arena. I'm also careful with the warm up - plenty of walking and flexing to loosen him up then transitions - like we do at home.
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Some horses like the arena others don't no horse needs to be a dressage horse if they don't like it that's that .
Have you tried the test with minimal warm up quick hack about the car park one canter each way and in ?
You need to tease out why is it he dies on you in the arena is it stage fright ( which horses do sometimes suffer from ) or does he react against the pressure to perform in the arena or does he know you won't give him a rocket once he's in there or does he really see no point in the performance .
I can categorically say you could put Carl Hester on Fatty and he would not go an inch in a school he simply said knows what he likes to do and he's lucky that that's been his job .
 
These types need to be a LOT fitter than more hot blooded sorts. What is his workload like - how much work does he do, and does he get out of breath/sweaty when he is hacking/cantering? I suspect you need to really set to and get him super fit, in order that he has enough petrol in the tank to perform.
There could well be an element of anxiety/nappiness in the arena - but he really needs you to take charge and say "Hey - get on with it". It sounds a bit like you are backing off him, as much as he is backing off you. You say you do lots of walking/flexing in your warm-up, but maybe mix it up a bit, make your warm up shorter and sharper - less walking, more short bursts of trot and canter - working on the horse you know he'll be in the test, not necessarily the horse you have underneath you when you get on.
 
fitness fitness fitness. you can not feed speed into them. Good quality forage and a low cal balancer (personally I would avoid anything with soya in it). Then get out there with lots of hacking, hill work and build it up. Keep out of the arena if you can and do your work out and about - leg yielding, shoulder fore, transitions up and down are all easily down while hacking. Do fun things. challenge his brain.

its also worth checking that your horse is straight. If they are crooked its like driving a car with a flat tyre. Hot horses compensate but lazy backward thinking horses cant manage to go forward if they are not straight. That's a basic training requirement.

Its also worth considering a seasons hunting once the horse is fit enough to cope. this usually inspires the lazy laid back types.


I have a pure bred ID who has been a successful show horse and recently transferred to doing dressage. Despite appearing totally relaxed at each new venue, he leaves the safety of the warm up and other horses, goes in between the boards and inwardly freezes and has to be tactfully ridden. He has improved enormously in recent weeks, but its a case of understanding what makes him tick and how to work him before.
 
Thanks everyone I really appreciate all your comments! And feel a lot more comfortable that I'm going in the right direction (wasn't so comfortable with the idea of feeding for energy...).

At the moment he is the fittest and slimmest he's ever been since I got him 3 years ago (though I think he's probably a few more kilos short of perfect). To be fair it hasn't been easy to sort him out with a decent exercise regime in the past as he had various issues such as laminitis and this year he was struck down with a cough - which the vet reckoned was an allergic cough (allergy to pollen). Soaked hay didn't help strangely enough but the haylage did - I just have to ensure he doesn't get very much! Anyway since being treated for the cough and being kept in a strict routine to minimise the possibility of laminitis he is now much more willing in his work. There is even decent top line developing and the instructor is delighted with his progress over the last few months.

I exercise him 5 or 6 days a week and try to mix it up so its not always flatwork sessions in arena. Trouble is his exercise sessions are never more than an hour a time. He will sweat / get out of breath but I reckon he could easily do more work but its not easy getting the time/opportunity. However I'm advertising for a sharer to help me out with the aim of increasing his workload / fitness.

Auslander - my instructor is of the same opinion - all of which I tried to apply at the last test and will try again at the next. Funnily enough I don't get particularly nervous during the actual tests - I'm much more nervous about driving there!
 
OldieButGoodie said:
Thanks! That's exactly the sort of thing I've been doing with him (weekly lessons, lots of transitions, legs / hands quiet until I want another transition, using a whip as back up etc etc) and its all going really well - at home. Take him out of his comfort zone and he literally switches off. Trouble is in a test I don't feel like I can use the whip on him, although I carry one, and I'm really careful not to block him. Usually in the warm up he goes beautifully so I'm wondering if it is insecurity rather than lack of energy because maybe he just doesn't like being in the test arena alone? There can be occasions when I feel him napping towards the 'exit' - i.e. where the other horses are.

Its such a shame as he has such presence and ability but there is just nothing there when I get him in the test arena. I'm also careful with the warm up - plenty of walking and flexing to loosen him up then transitions - like we do at home.
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It could be that as he is a very kind horse, he is picking up your nerves in the arena and trying his best not to upset you! Exactly the opposite of many horses who pick up on nerves and start jumping about all over the place because 'something is out to get us'. As you both get used to going out and about and he gets fitter, he may become more responsive. Why is he on a calmer? It really doesn't sound as if he needs one!
 
OldieButGoodie said:
Thanks! That's exactly the sort of thing I've been doing with him (weekly lessons, lots of transitions, legs / hands quiet until I want another transition, using a whip as back up etc etc) and its all going really well - at home. Take him out of his comfort zone and he literally switches off. Trouble is in a test I don't feel like I can use the whip on him, although I carry one, and I'm really careful not to block him. Usually in the warm up he goes beautifully so I'm wondering if it is insecurity rather than lack of energy because maybe he just doesn't like being in the test arena alone? There can be occasions when I feel him napping towards the 'exit' - i.e. where the other horses are.

Its such a shame as he has such presence and ability but there is just nothing there when I get him in the test arena. I'm also careful with the warm up - plenty of walking and flexing to loosen him up then transitions - like we do at home.
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My horse can be a bit the same, He's very laid back and doesn't give anything any more energy than the bare minimum required. I tend to keep the warm up very short and focussed. I walk around the car park or go for a little hack down the lane to loosen him off and only go in the warm up arena for 10 minutes before my test. I do a fair bit of lateral work warming up - partly to get his quarters engaged and partly so that the test seems much easier to him when he's just allowed to go forward and isn't made to go sideways. I also try to time it so I don't have too much waiting around to go in as he switches off given half a chance. I tell the steward I'm ready but don't want to stand at the door so ask him/her to call me when the previous rider is turning up the centre line and I can then go straight in. If the judge is still writing, I walk round the outside but put in a bit of shoulder fore. I only trot after he/she rings the bell. Every horse is different and needs a different warm up, you need to find the happy medium of getting him engaged and listening but not 'tired'. I put that in inverted commas as they're rarely tired, just mentally switched off I think.
 
Sounds just like my boy was! For him the key was fitness, motivation and experience. When I bought him, he was very overweight, dead to the leg and lazy/sluggish even at home. We did a lot of work at home getting him moving off my leg and giving him varied activities to do (he'd only ever been in the school at home in walk/trot in his previous home, despite being 6yo) hunting him last winter did him the world of good and really helped his fitness and getting him to think more forwards. But even when he was lovely and forwards at home, I had a lot of problems with him shutting down on me away from home. I know that was due to anxiety/uncertainty in a new environment, because when he's unsure of anything he tends to back right off (which is annoying, but much less likely to end up with you on the ground than a horse who explodes :D ) He's much better now after I spent a lot of time getting him used to going out to new places. Do you ride 2 tests when you go out to do dressage? Because I always found that having a "warm up" test to get used to the arena really helped my boy, and he'd be much more forwards in the second test. I do ride him in spurs, but I try and vary between wearing and not wearing them at home so he doesn't get too used to them, but I find they really do help him understand what I want and get him to listen when I need it!

It sounds like you're doing all the right things at home with him, so hopefully you can get that translated across to other venues soon :)

ETA. Feed did also help my boy though, but it wasn't increasing the amount, it was just changing to a feed that suited him better and is helping him build muscle and become stronger, so he finds the work easier so is more motivated to do it :p
 
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