is this a phase? i need help to get over it!

LeannePip

LeannePip

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my 4yo can be a nappy little monster at comeptitions, shes fine at home and is fine in ghe warm up - can be a bit nappy going from the lorry to the warm up but then is fine - i take her out with and with out her friend and there is little or no difference in her behaviour.

but she naps like hell as soon as we go into the arena:

before a dressage test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1FZwdPFbWw&feature=plcp
then does a greeish test but nappiness seems to be forgotten: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiMfhMKJD6o&feature=plcp
before showjumping: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP3ySwEyVYw&feature=channel&list=UL
then does a good clear round: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHS9uKVvuvc&feature=channel&list=UL

this is common whenever we take her out but on sunday she did the same but just didnt get over the napiness jumped one coming towards home nicely (beautiful photo ;) ) over two then napped at the gate before three then tumbled over it then compleetly said no about 10strides out to four going away from home where we got elminated - took her round the clear round made a point of you MUST go forward i am not going to reward stopping with a finish - jumped round well and no spooking/napping but i was really on her case if im honest was fast and not the most beautiful but it served a purpose gave her a pat and put her on the lorry. entered the same class again HC with my determined head on so gave her a half hour rest then got back on and warmed up as if it were dressage lots of transitions getting her focused on me then just went down to the arena as the person before me went in where as before i would have wandered down when i was ready then waited for my turn to go in. didnt let her stop at the arena then went off with out the napping at the begining but still napped at the gate between two and three and so had to turn a circle then straight over four, five and six then 7 was the last going away from home and i could feel her dying que lots of pony club kicking and a very laboured hop over seven to finish (2 phase)

so where do i go from here? do i just keep working through the napping at the begining slowly and quietly and wait for her to get over it or is this too soft? or should i get on as determined as i did for the second round and not give her a chance to nap - but what worries me with this is shes not the sort of horse you can 'tell' to do something or she just completly becomes un workable and its much easier to keep her on side and make her think its her idea. another thing is we have a problem with banners and boards in warm up which make her loose focus and she will have a paddy about going past so i tend to keep away from them and just concentrate on 'keeping her sweet' and forwards - should i do this or confront the banners and boards?

this video is a collaboration of naughty bits with some good bits - i wasnt sure how i felt after sunday so i put this together to cheer me but it just shows some more of her napping. all the napping featured is before rounds except where you can clearly see im heading for the green and cream brick wall which is number four from sunday where she stoped in the first round - the jumping inside at the end if from the clear round on sunday. the organge board that you can see infront of the dressage hut in the showjumping clips is the cause of most of the spooking at this particular venue! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFT7zxMljFg&feature=channel&list=UL
 
I could only watch the first and third video, so apologies if this is not relevant...

I would not be putting up with that at all, I would be riding her much more positively and I would be doing my best to keep her facing the way I want to go.

In the first video, you circle her round and let her trot back the way she wants to go! Then, as soon as its the way she doesn't want she grinds to a halt again!

I don't think you are doing you or her any favours at the moment. You put your leg on, she should go.

I would really be riding her forwards and positively. She needs to take the lead from you, not go if and when she feels like it!
 
kirstie said:
I could only watch the first and third video, so apologies if this is not relevant...

I would not be putting up with that at all, I would be riding her much more positively and I would be doing my best to keep her facing the way I want to go.

In the first video, you circle her round and let her trot back the way she wants to go! Then, as soon as its the way she doesn't want she grinds to a halt again!

I don't think you are doing you or her any favours at the moment. You put your leg on, she should go.

I would really be riding her forwards and positively. She needs to take the lead from you, not go if and when she feels like it!
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thank you for you comment, this is what im asking for help with - how can i make her go forward when all she does when i put my leg on is goes up to avoid it? i do hope i am not 'putting up with this' behaviour which is why i am asking for help to overcome it because i dont want to put up to it? do you have any tips on how i can make her go forward in this situation?
 
I hate to bang on again about the same thing, but has she still not had a proper break (and by proper break, I don't mean a couple of weeks off). She was x-country schooling and jumping quite big fences at 3, and appears to be doing quite a lot still. I would put money on her being in need of a proper long holiday. Please consider it - she's a nice mare, but she's an immature baby, who is probably physically and mentally knackered. If you don't do the right thing by her now, she's going to get more and more resentful and fed up.
 
do you work her in the school on her own at home, always with others or a bit of both?
will she jump a course of jumps at home without napping?
had she been in an indoor school before?
i would not ride a youngster in spurs and in the first video she stops being daft as soon as you give her a smack. spurs will just make her more dead to the leg they are meant for horses that know exactly what he aids mean. she needs to learn forwards means just that,you ask quietly with the leg no response sharp tap with whip.
you seem to be asking a lot of a four year old i would not be out jumping and def not more than one round-i would spend lots of time wandering about so she can get a good look at stuff.
she is a lovely looking pony with good conformation and lovely paces when she is moving forwards-lots of potential but don't rush it.
go out for schooling days, have lessons at different yards so she has to come of lorry/trailer and get on with whatever discipline you are doing that day with someone on the floor to help.
 
That's a seriously uncooperative youngster in those videos. The best bit of advice I can give atm is to hack her for the rest of the summer and turn her away for the winter. Then, in spring, start again, this time slowly.
 
martlin said:
That's a seriously uncooperative youngster in those videos. The best bit of advice I can give atm is to hack her for the rest of the summer and turn her away for the winter. Then, in spring, start again, this time slowly.
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Agree :) Whatever you have been doing, it's not been working (IIRC this mare napped/wouldn't jump at her 1st comp back as a rising 4 year old - tell me if I'm wrong) so try something new. She'll definitely be worth it in the long run - she's really lovely.

If you really don't want to do that, what about some pairs over some tiny cross country jumps - anything to get her going forward and enjoying herself without the pressure to perform.
 
Are you still a WP at an eventing yard?

If so, what does your boss say about how to deal with this?

If she was mine, I would get the pro from the yard on to get her around a clear round (of crosspoles if needed) and then forget jumping/schooling for the rest of this year- give her a holiday and hack until next spring.
 
Ditto the others. She's young, she's done a fair bit already, so time for her to have a break from it all and be turned away for the winter. Give herself time to catch up with herself. Then next Spring she should have a good foundation mentally and physically.
 
I will be blunt, forgive me for it but it might help you long term. This is not a phase, you are creating a serious problem for this horse that may stay with it for the rest of its life.

Get a pro to give her one positive, clear round experience, and re-start with some fun, forward going stuff only in the spring (rising trot, no point sitting to the trot of horse that is hollow and not in front of the leg).
 
I have to agree with the other posters. I'm not even teaching my four year old to jump until she turns five. She's expressing her distress the only way she knows how - give her a break.

Paula
 
I think id be inclined to get a pro or instructor to give her one outing where she goes in no napping does her job and comes out so she ends on a good note before giving her a break. She is young and like others have said needs a rest.

Then id start off just hacking, working on transitions and her going forward off your leg without spurs and go from there.

Good luck
 
Definitely agree with the others. You will blow her brains if you keep up this level of pressure at such a young age. She's telling you it's too much for her. Give her a break!
 
I have a nappy horse and he has been nappy since I bought him (sadly I didn't pick up on it when I tried him!) although his is nothing like as bad as your mare's (he just hangs and very very occasionally veers towards home/friendly people/other horses).

I would do everything in your power to stop that behaviour now. I would suggest sticking a sensitive but determined pro on her for a small schooling round, then turn her away to develop mentally, with a good lasting memory of SJ/outings.

When you bring her back next year, keep the pressure off but always think forwards. Never let a nappy horse turn the way it wants to unless it starts getting very unsafe for you. Always ride a circle before leaving the ring/arena/test environment and only ever leave at a walk until any hint of nappiness has gone. React quickly if you feel a shoulder start to slide out and do not allow hesitation.

And don't wear spurs. I learnt that the hard way last weekend as Bill did have a napping moment on the XC course as it's a course he knows well and when schooling we always go one way, but the course went the other way. He wanted to go the usual way, and I ended up sending him very strongly forwards with my legs - causing a graze on his left side with my spurs. If she's napping like that you need to be able to use your legs without injuring her. She's also awfully young to be using spurs.

Good luck, and I am sure you willl have a better horse for taking a bit of time out now. Believe me you don't still want to be facing the same problems when she's 7.
 
I only watched the napping into the show jumping and then the "good clear round" videos. I have to say that I found the show jumping not very nice to watch, and not what I would call a good clear - it was sticky, unbalanced, hurried (you rode it like a jump off!) and generally uncomfotable. The steering, confidence and control didn't look good enough for such speed..

I agree with the others - take things back a level. You don't have to totally rough the horse off (I probably wouldn't) but ditch the courses and competitions. Do lots of hacking, let her relax. Do the odd farm ride (one or two over the winter) but just follow another horse over a few small fences. Let her breath and find the enjoyment in her work again..
 
Having learned a bit from the others posters, I too would give her a break.
I agree with Boo boos that you are creating a big problem.

Give her a break, start hacking and let her have a bit of fun.
 
I don't know your history so just going from the video's, she just looks really green and as though she's trying it on to see what she can get away with. My first impression was to be a bit firmer with her from the outset - it seems as though she gets away with the behavior for a good few seconds before you do anything about it. Other than that, as the others have said, perhaps a change of scenery i.e. leisure riding rather than competitions, just easy the pressure off her for a while or just give her a break for a few months.
 
Just looked at your videos. She's lovely, but I agree that she is doing too much too soon. One of your videos led on to a video shot at home where you are jumping some rather large jumps for her age - probably not what you want to be doing at this stage. How big is she? 15.1 - 15.2? The jumps look like they are 1m+

Do you ever hack her out? Might be more enjoyable and less demanding and stressful for her.
 
When you got eliminated in the SJ and then took her round the clear round you should have stopped there whilst still on a good note. A young horse is going to be tired after that and you were asking for trouble taking her back into jump again.

I agree with other posters that it is time to give this horse a break from jumping and competing for a while. Does she hack out alone? If not, this would be a key thing to work on, so she learns to feel more secure when out on her own in strange surroundings. Also work on desensitising her to strange objects and new venues. Everytime you work in the school, place something new in there - a rug over the fence, plastic flowers in a brightly flowered pot. Can you hire a school that she hasn't been to before, so you can get her used to working in a new situation without the pressure of competition?
 
Have to agree, I think she has been over phased too soon. She is very young to be out doing full dressage tests & a full round of show jumps!

Would be more focused on gentle schooling & popping her over the odd cross pole or 2 ... She needs to mature before she is ready to do what you want her to do.
 
Firstly, in the jumping vids, that martingale is really really tight. I doubt that's helping much, she needs a bit of freedom over the fences when she does go.
But aside from that, honestly? Please. Give her a break. She may look big and strong but she's just a big baby who looks totally fazed by it all. She isn't having "a tantrum", she is trying to tell you that she really can't cope at the moment. Rushing to get her over them when she does give in and go forward, isn't helping either, she needed to be taken slowly (trot ideally, or a very steady canter) until she wanted to go forward more, you really shouldn't have to sit up and drive every stride with spurs on with a baby horse. :( :( :(
Be careful that you don't cement this behaviour... now is the time to ease right off and give her time to grow up, mentally and physically. If her resentment grows any more you will end up with a real problem on your hands.
 
In the vid before your test I don't know what the first nap is about but the 2nd one I would have said is because there is a large mirror in the top corner of that school. May have even caused the 1st tantrum too. Have you just taken her out and hired a school like that and just schooled her?
 
Honey08 said:
I have to say that I found the show jumping not very nice to watch, and not what I would call a good clear - it was sticky, unbalanced, hurried (you rode it like a jump off!) and generally uncomfotable. The steering, confidence and control didn't look good enough for such speed..
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Got to agree. Pony also sought direction from you, and got none.

Spooking in the dressage, again looking for some direction from you, and got none.

No wonder she's ultimately telling you to bugger off.

I don't know the history, but it would appear that others do and are advising you to turn away, and then get some good professional tuition - which sounds like excellent advice.

What a lovely, lovely young horse.......
 
OP - i have read another thread started by you some time ago and then advice was give your horse a long break....what is the point of coming on here and asking for advise if you are not going to value it, especailly when the majority have the same answer!!!!
 
Have you had her back/saddle checked recently. If you look at your position in many pics/vids, you are in an armchair seat, your weight is quite far back towards her loins. In a couple of jumping shots, she hollows and throws her head in the air on landing which makes me think she is saying OW. I would also wonder why she flicks her tail in annoyance whenever you sit and drive.
Generally she looks to have had the most sweet and biddable temperament in the Spring, so you need to really think about how to get her back onside before she become incorrigible. You smack her a few times for no good reason, a couple of times she was confused by your lack of direction and you gave her a couple of smacks - unless she knows she was being mulish then she will resent you for this. She does seem to work quite hard in a v round outline, I suspect she has gotten quite sore, she may wonder what she has to do to please you & be at the point of just giving up trying.

I would get her back treated/reviewed also check teeth, then turn away for 2 months, then hack and relax with her, let her have fun and relax with you, really get her to enjoy her work before putting any competition pressure on her. Think hard when you bring her back about what she gets out of your riding, if she comes out & is a superstar, put her away again, reward her, if she is great in the first class, don't do the 2nd. Till she is stronger & on side, you need to develop a desire to work for you and an enjoyment of outings.
 
Out of interest, does she nap much at home? I had a WB who would never nap at home or in lessons (would jump anything etc.) but in a competition environment he shut down like yours. Occassionally he'd win a BSJA class but most of the time he'd nap going into the ring or 1/2 way round etc. and I wouldnt be able to get him going again. Going XC he'd be horrific at the start box napping, then suddenly the handbrake came off and he'd fly round the course! Was very odd but I tried everything for 5 years. Had to admit defeat eventually, he just didnt enjoy it so I sold him to a hacking home. Sorry, not very positive or constructive!!

The only thing Id try with her is definately get saddle, bath and teeth checked. Then I probably would stop jumping her nearly as much especially at home as IMO they can go stale very quickly. I very rarely jump mine at home, only ever in competitions normally and all (except the WB!) stayed very honest, willing jumpers. I think when you get a problem like this, you want to practice like mad but its the opposite you should do!
 
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Please get rid of the spurs. In the first video she starts rearing every time you stick them in her - that's not what they are for.

Paula
 
badgermyers said:
IMO it needs a good telling off whenever it does this. I have found it becomes a bigger issue if ignored. Its a very bad habit
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Interesting response. Do you not feel that the reason for her behaviour should be addressed, rather than just suggesting she bashes 'it'. This is a green 4 yr old who was out cross-country schooling, and competing as a 3 yr old, and has not had a break. I suspect she would come back a much happier and more amenable character after a good holiday.
 
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