Is this a really stupid idea - buying a youngster

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Daniel_Jack

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I'd posted the other day about my situation - sold own horse (amazing wonder cob) due to having a young family.

Had a year off but I do miss it - it's not just the riding by the husbandry and the social aspect.

I've taken on a share - older broodie, unfit, stubborn but very sweet and I have her 2 days a week - I could probably commit to more but lack of yard facilities/bad weather etc make it difficult. The fact that I know I can't really get anywhere with her is frustrating - she's too old, too unfit and the facilities won't allow much schooling.

I'm going to start weekly lessons to brush up on my proper riding again and I was musing last night about the possibility of buying a youngster - a young cob that would make about 15h that in a few years time when my family is a bit older could make a nice all rounder for me and perhaps my daughter.

My logic (which I accept may be totally flawed) is that doing this would allow me to improve my riding while still having the husbandry and social element as I'd be bringing on my own horse and while I always said I'd never want I youngster it does sort of appeal to me - the thought of very slowly bringing on a young horse, doing the handling, groundwork, de-spooking and possibly depending on the horse and how brave I'm feeling, actually backing it.

I'll be honest my experience with youngsters is pretty much null - my own horse was 4 when I bought him - he was well handled although had some quirks and was very, very green and unbalanced in the school and I was happy to work through it because he had a good nature and was willing to dry. I tried out a 5 year old for share the other day and while he was too small, I loved that he was a blank canvas!

There is a very good cob dealer relatively local to me who I know friends have bought from and ended up with cracking horses - a young cob would cost me in the region of £500 to £700.

Another reason is that I recognise how lucky I was with my old horse - he really was perfect and I now regret selling him but most of what I see for sale isn't my type or I worry that I'll be buying someone elses problems - if that makes sense.

Would welcome any views - positive or negative as it's just a thought I have right now.
 
Mmmm...... a bit to think about here methinks.

My main concern for you would be time, you have a horse already that you share, and admit that you "could probably commit to more"...... but this and that stops you and makes it difficult. Whilst accepting the mare is old and unfit, and the yard isn't perhaps the best it could be, I think you may be already, if you are honest, struggling to maintain momentum and interest with this one.

Re. your "weekly lessons to brush up on proper riding again"...... again, my feeling is that if you are thinking of getting a youngster, then you need to be reasonably confident in your own ability. Certainly a youngster will need to take its confidence from you, and if you are at all unsure of your ability, then my warning flags go up if I am honest.

Having said this, you've said that your horse was 4 when you bought him, and you obviously did the right things and pressed the right buttons coz you have just sold him as a "wonder cob"!! So possibly you underestimate your own ability, tho' there is a huge difference between "bringing on" something that has already been half-produced, and starting from scratch with something that hasn't even been backed! But (pardon me asking stoopid question), WHY on earth did you sell him? Yes you had a young family/commitment, but to sell something nice & reliable that you've (obviously) worked hard on and brought on yourself, and to go from that to a youngster, when you've admitted you don't have much time, doesn't frankly make much sense!! Why on earth didn't you hang onto your lovely cob? You could have enjoyed him when you had the young family and THEN in a few years time looked around for a youngster to bring on when you mebbe had a bit more time? Sorry, wasn't wanting to be harsh or unduly critical, and know sometimes that tough choices have to be made.

I think OP you need to sit down and work out your priorities right now, without rushing into committing to a youngster who will be needing a LOT of attention and particularly so when you hit a problem (not IF but WHEN!!). The last thing you need is to have to feel your're rushing, with any horse, let alone a youngster. Also - and particularly if you lack experience and/or confidence - my strong recommendation would be to have a professional ready-and-waiting in the wings to come alongside and help you if you need it as this back-up security is invaluable. I know, I've recently taken on a youngster and it is a huge relief to have the person who backed her available if there are any issues! I certainly wouldn't have taken on a youngster without that.

Personally, and I'm being brutally honest here, I am not convinced that OP you will have the necessary time for a youngster. That is the main concern I have. Re. inexperience, well, if you have the right professional handy then that need not be such a huge issue, but you will need to be confident at riding with an independent seat, and taking on a young horse from scratch, backing them, and later on, for e.g. you have to have what it takes to be able to go out onto the roads for the first time and/or introducing them to new things, as well as being prepared, and confident, to deal with any issues that arise. You need lots of available time - and also quality time, i.e. you are fresh and ready to go, not tired out from dealing with kiddies!

Perhaps there is another horse which might be for loan and/or share, which someone somewhere would be very happy for you to have the use of, and you wouldn't then have the worry of not having the time to fully commit to?? You could have all the benefits of "owning" but not the problem of how you might find the time to sort your youngster which is growing ever more cheeky and you're stressing coz just don't have the necessary time!

But whatever, your call. This local place does sound like it produces some very nice young cobs and I admit it sounds tempting..........
 
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Thanks for your reply. In terms of my experience, I'll admit, it's no where near as much as some - I've been riding for about 13 years - started in my 20's, took lessons for a few years then bought a fat, green cob and just got very lucky that he was a super star. I can't take credit for turning him in to a super cob - he always had it in him and I used lots of different instructors along the way to help both of us improve.

I've never be the super confident type i.e. not the sort of person that gets enjoyment out of riding the naughty horses, I like a calm, willing horse which I know is possible in a youngster but not guaranteed. I have with my cob done a bit of everything - dressage up to novice, XC but only to 75 cm as that all either of us were really up for, same with SJ. He would hack alone or in company, on busy or quiet roads. Now days, I'm looking for an all rounder with a focus on low level dressage/schooling

In terms of why I sold him - I had a period where i was really struggling with priorities while my daughter was very young - I was working full time (I'm not anymore - well I am but with a different working pattern), paying a fortune on full livery, only riding a few times a week and finding it a really chore to go to the yard. I also really struggled with the yards in my area - options are limited if you want both turn out and facilities and that would still be a challenge but not with a youngster initially as there is a yard that has good turn out but limited facilities that would work well for a youngster and it's really close to home so the time issue becomes less of an issue.

I appreciate your honesty and I'm definitely not rushing into anything but it's something I'm thinking about. I have seen other people with similar levels of experience to me do well with youngsters.
 
your hearts in it then go for it. yes there will be (many) problems an d tears but its so very rewarding when you get little successes all of which add up to a big success of eventually a lovly horse which is just what you have made it.
 
Okay I would say you need to be sure that with a youngster you are capable of getting through the green and scary moments that happen, even with the nicest youngster you need to be sure that you can be the one giving them confidence when they need it and that does mean sitting tight and saying yes we are still going and not backing out. Failing that you need to be prepared to pay a professional otherwise you could end up with a very difficult and frightened horse that could become a problem.
If you feel like you are learning yourself and having to brush up are you honestly able to teach a youngster everything it needs? The professional breaking riders I know are incredible riders, brave and talented, they make it look so easy but they do it day in and day out, for average joe rider it can go very wrong and end up shattering both yours and the horses confidence.
I am not suggesting you cant just giving food for thought ... I would say that if you honestly think you are capable and are realistic and all goes well it could end up being one of the most rewarding things you will ever do.
 
I always tend to think "You only live once"
Its got me in all sorts of pickles and it has also got me some amazing places in my life I didn't think possible!

If I were you ... I'd go for it.
Whilst the sensible part of me said "you already don't have enough hours in the day, or enough money in the bank!!"... I tend to shut the sensible me up with cake!
Good luck, keep us updated with any new additions!
 
I'm going to throw up the negatives here.

- Mainly breaking and schooling a youngster and having a young family is never a good fit. Any youngster will have green moments and if you come off and get injured it will be difficult with small kids to mind.

- If you don't enjoy riding naughty horses, then you would need to have a serious think about would you be able to handle the testing periods that all youngsters go through. Any young horses I've had have always gone through a period of trying out if bucking, rearing, spinning and napping works, and you really need to be on your toes sometimes to be confident enough to get them through it. It's very easy to embed a bad behaviour response (like bucking) in a horse, if they succeed in getting you off first time.

- i also disagree with the cobs are easy to break idea. Some are, but some of the most difficult ponies and horses I've seen are cobs. They can be very bl*ody minded, stubborn, too clever for their own good at time and can run rings around people if they think they have a chance. It completely depends on the horses personality, and as a youngster you don't always know what they will end up like personality wise.

- With a youngster you don't always know how they will end up. You might want to do dressage, but end up with a horse that doesn't have the temperament and brain for it. And you could spend years training a horse that isn't a good fit for what you want to do

You could go and buy a still young, but not green, suitable cob who shows potential in dressage and is a joy to hack. You could have a proven and safe ride that you could have fun on. I have seen so many people get youngsters and then absolutely lose every shred of confidence with them spooking and napping on hacks. Or worst case scenario you could spend years putting money and time into a horse who could end up to absolutely hate flatwork and be spooky hacking. There's no guarantee that the horse will end up being the one you want.
 
I wouldn't. Not unless you are very confident. I have had many years experience bringing on youngsters and OTTBs and had broken in four horses in the past. However, a thyroid illness knocked me for six shortly after a foal was born here and I bought a two year old WB. The idea was for me to break in both youngsters. But I developed hyperthyroidism which not only sapped all my energy and made me physically very ill, but it also made me very anxious and I totally lost my confidence. I still managed to back the two year old when she turned 4, but had to let down the owner of the foal that was by then 3. We sent him away to be started. Then I totally bottled it when it came to riding my mare away and left her until she was 6. I had to get a lot of help with her from her breeder and then my trainer. Now, only since my thyroid levels have been normal for a few months do I feel back to my old self and all my confidence has returned. In fact, I am probably a bit over confident now! But what I am trying to say is that even for a person who has broken in horses in the past, you never know what is in store and things do not always go to plan. My mare what extremely tricky and went through a rearing phase which lasted months. I really was ready to throw in the towel. I remember one day after riding her and her rearing vertical several times, getting off in tears and deciding I would never sit on her again! It was devastating after waiting for four years to get to the point of properly riding her, only to dread getting on her every time and wondering if she'd put me in a wheelchair.

Thankfully, we have got through it, but I had some very good support from my trainer and from a fearless young rider. I couldn't have done it by myself. Now I have my confidence she knows it and I have since worked through a lot of issues on my own. She is now a young horse that is level headed and great to ride. I rode her this afternoon after she had had five days off and just got straight on and she was foot perfect. But boy has it been hard getting there.
 
I wouldnt. a young cob might only cost you £500-700 but at how old and how long will you be paying to keep it before its ridden? do you have the time to keep a youngster consistently ridden ie 6/7 days for the first few months-because they really need that ime early on to really get them going. and as said, you dont really know with a youngster if they are going to be the horse for you in X years time (been there, got the t-shirt).

save your money and buy something already somewhat established. there are many horses available and I don't see that changing any time soon. have some lessons and maybe look to a more 'rewarding' share to get you going again in the meantime.
 
I would, and I have, more than once. I'm not a brilliant rider or horse breaker, nor am I brave, but it has all worked for me. I bought Tinner (in my profile picture) as a weanling, he was feral, he had an easy uncomplicated 'childhood', learning the very basics. I was the first to sit on him, but riding four I sent him to a professional for backing. She asked what I needed him to do - hack alone and in company, traffic proof etc, I rode him plenty of times from her yard, group and solo, so when he came home I already knew him, and he really has been a sweetheart. He's matured at 15.1 (he's eight years old now), he's not quite a cob really, too light of bone.

I think with a nice natured youngster it is absolutely lovely to have them from scratch. You know everything that has ever happened to them, and you can form their whole life.

There are a couple with the same breeding as mine on here, Penpont Ponies in Cornwall, I think jinx94 has one?
 
If you can time it for when your children start school/ nursery being when the cob starts ridden work, then go for it. Getting ground work for breaking done difficult to be consistent with when you have toddlers. I figured that out!

I have a 2 month old, a 2 year old, a recently broken pony, a horse in work a full
Time job and a very very patient husband!
 
I wouldn't, not with your young family. Carry on with the lessons and the share horse, but maybe look for a "better" share.
Wait until the children are older.
 
If by youngster we are talking sub 4, some would consider them better having minimal husbandry (ie in a field of other youngsters) until you need them to be doing stuff anyway, as such this might not help you on the yard aspect. And you would be paying for keep until you were able to start doing something with it... which will probably work out more expensive than just buying a 4yo when you are ready to start doing more?

I think at first I'd be looking to see if I could find a better share.
 
Honestly, as someone who has had foals in the past there is no guarantee you will get what your end goal is - i had a lovely filly (who i'd pencilled in as my perfect horse) break a leg in a random freak accident last year. I had another one not grow to the height expected. I've another four year old there who pulled a ligament hooning around and now looks like she will be a field ornament.

If you are going to break it in yourself then you need to be honest about what your skills are. If from past experience you can understand how to teach a horse to balance, teach it to come off the forehand, teach it not lean, not to evade through a shoulder etc then you will be fine. But if you can't, then your options are either to break it badly and spend years getting to the level where it can do even an average dressage test, or else spend money getting it professionally broken. In which case why not buy one that has been properly done instead of spending money for years watching it eat grass in a field.

If you don't know how to break a horse then the joy is in the process, not the end goal. If you have an idea in your head of an ideal horse for your and your daughter, then it isn't the best option for you. There is a joy in seeing them develop from babies, but it's honestly over rated (in my opinion), I get the same enjoyment from doing groundwork etc with any new horse, that i did with doing groundwork with my baby horses. It's all about the relationship and development of a horse, and thats equally exciting with any horse. But a lot easier with one who has been taught basic skills by someone who knows their job.

If you don't speak french, and the horse doesn't speak french, then you aren't going to be doing any decent french speaking without either doing it shitt*ly for years or else hiring a french teacher in for you both. If you are happy to accept the possibility of not doing a good dressage test for years then fire ahead.

Its the fact that you have a young family that would put me against it. Youy have enough stress at home - picture having a tough day and escaping to the yard and realising you have to sit 40 mins to sit out a horse that is napping at a gate. Do you have the time and patience? Because that is the reality at times. And with a young horse you can't quit, you need to be the person to get them through it, you can't just get off and leave it because you need to be home at a certain time. that is why breaking is a full time job for the pro's because they have the time and skills.

I wouldn't query your passion or intelligence, id just query is this the right time for you to do it with a young family and pressures. There is no guarantee that the horse will be the horse for either you or your daughter.
 
If my children were still young I think I'd buy or loan an older established pony. My old cob was originally bought from a riding school for me and my son to share and did Pony Club etc with my son before he moved onto his own horse. He was zippy enough for my son to jump and gallop about on, great for me and happy to gently amble round the school occasionally with my younger son (like a pea on a mountain!).

A youngster could work but as ester has said it can be a much more expensive route to take - so may depend on your budget. When my old pony needed to retire I bought a nearly unhandled 3 year old cob. Not ideal on paper given that I'm more of a passenger than a rider but I knew his temperament and was happy to take a bit of a gamble. He was cheap to buy and keep but I knew I'd need lots of professional help and so have spent a fortune having ground-work lessons followed by backing at our trainers yard and ridden lessons. There have been additional expense in saddles etc as he has matured. I wouldn't be without him now but wouldn't have contemplated it when my children were younger due to cost and time.
 
It can work - I've backed and trained a couple of my own, and with my first I was probably similarly experienced to you. Mine have both turned out really useful and great fun to have around - but it hasn't always been easy and neither turned out quite as I expected or hoped initially (although in other ways, both have exceeded my expectations and I'm perfectly happy to be flexible in my aspirations with them). The first one I trained around a PhD involving ridiculously long hours and a long commute, which wasn't ideal. I'm not sure trying to work full time and juggle a young family is realistic though. It seems like a huge ask - possibly just too much. I think you'd be better off looking for a better share, then buying something that's been well started and shows aptitude for your chosen discipline.
 
Well, I have a young toddler and a young horse. Would I have bought a foal had I known I'd have a baby just when he needed backing and bringing on? No. Not for a minute. Mainly because I spend my whole life feeling guilty about not spending enough time riding. He's 6 but green due to lack of time, and tbh though he is quirky I've got away with it mainly through a solid bond and trust.

In an ideal world, imo young families best fit with an older horse who can deal with the inevitable gaps in their education which occur.
 
I love training young horses and the nicest, easiest horses I've ever had were the ones I trained from scratch. Maybe I was just lucky! I've had 2 yearlings & 3 unbacked 3 year olds. 3 hairy natives and 2 ISH. I really enjoy the foundation work: groundwork, manners, despòoking, long reining. Getting on for the first time has never been remotely problematic. None have bucked or run off. I trained a my first youngsters when I had a very young family. I didn't have much skill or experience but I am patient, hardworking and confident in handling and riding. The horses all ended up willing, mannerly and easy going. So all I can say is it worked out well for me! That's not yo say I disagree with other's comments. It could go wrong. But then it can go wrong when you buy an older horse with baggage too. I've had one pretty awful pony who was 12 and sold as a been there done that, bomb proof babysitter type for a novice child. He was a nightmare! So you just never know and I personally prefer them as relatively blank canvasses.
 
I think the OPs issue is trying to do it with a young family. I've backed a few, as have lots of people on here. It's a different ball game with young children though because of lack of time and therefore lack of consistent input...my little boy comes first and I'm not prepared to palm him off enough to spend the proper amount of time on the horse.
 
Daniel_Jack said:
I also really struggled with the yards in my area - options are limited if you want both turn out and facilities and that would still be a challenge but not with a youngster initially as there is a yard that has good turn out but limited facilities that would work well for a youngster and it's really close to home so the time issue becomes less of an issue.
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But this will surely only work whilst the youngster is unbroken? So when your youngster is at the age to be backed, it is going to be even more of a priority to have both good turnout AND good facilities. You don't want to be getting on a youngster who is pinging all over the place due to lack of turnout, and having facilities like a decent arena is a godsend for a youngster - whilst hacking is great for them, there are some points in time when it is good to have the option of an enclosed safe space with decent footing (ie an arena).

Also it is not just down to experience and ability - confidence is a huge part of bringing on a youngster correctly - they are very quick to pick up any doubts or nerves on your part and become nervous or naughty because of it.

If you do decide to go ahead, make sure you have a decent back up plan if you have problems (ie the resources to bring in experienced help).
 
Well, I've just gone and done just that. I purchased a 14 month old colt and got him home last week!

After losing my old boy 2.5 years ago, life just wasn't the same, and having looked for a new horse for over a year, I just couldn't find what I wanted or could afford it. So, I settled on "growing my own".

I have got reasonable experience with foals and youngsters and also backing and bringing on young horses - but I also have the added advantage of a good YO with other liveries who have brought on youngsters, so I will be asking them for advice and help.

I seem to have been lucky, as he is proving to be very "easy" at the moment. He's very calm and steady and quite self-confident. He has been in a field on his own for the last week while he settles and he will be meeting the other boys this week with the aim of having him out 24/7. I am going to concentrate on handling, grooming and picking feet up and really leave it at that and let him grow up in his own time.
 
I bought my youngster as a weanling with limited experience and have done everything myself, though he is kept at a stud and my YOs have been incredible with the support they've given me. If I had kept him somewhere else, I think our story would have been completely different and most likely would not have a happy ending.

I wouldn't say that it's a stupid idea, but I do think that you have a lot to consider.

I am very open about the fact that buying Tristan was both the worst and the best choice that I have ever made. Worst because I overestimated my capabilities and underestimated the commitment required both in terms of time and of mental resilience, but best because he has been incredible and I really couldn't imagine my life without him. I would gladly get another youngster in the future.

When I bought him, the plan was that I would have lessons to get my riding ability up to scratch whilst he was growing up. Unfortunately due to a number of factors, my finances didn't allow for me to get those lessons. My next plan was to save and send him away for backing, but my car broke and so my savings went on that. Luckily, my YO felt that I was capable and gave me the help that I needed. If she wasn't confident in my ability, I would have had to leave it until I could afford to send him away.

In the time that they are growing up, your personal circumstances could change a lot, so a contingency plan of some description is a necessity.
 
Nudibranch said:
I think the OPs issue is trying to do it with a young family. I've backed a few, as have lots of people on here. It's a different ball game with young children though because of lack of time and therefore lack of consistent input...my little boy comes first and I'm not prepared to palm him off enough to spend the proper amount of time on the horse.
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I found my youngsters took a lot less time than my current horses who are in full work. They all lived out in a mixed herd 24/7/365 and were 'worked' for about 20 minutes twice a day up until backing. And then only for 30-40 minutes 3 tims a week or so. A few lessons took a little longer - in hand walks, sone in hand showing. But most days It fitted in really well with my young family.
 
As long as you can commit the time and you have a good support network at home and at your yard I would definitely do it.

I bought my first horse last year, a 3yr old cob. I have always been a competent rider but I definitely lacked confidence in terms of handling. I am on a small DIY yard the support from the other two liveries was and still is great.

I had an awful winter with my mare last year and thought this was literally the worst decision I had ever made, she really knocked my riding confidence and it took me about 6 months to get back to where I was. It has been a long summer but we have come on leaps and bounds, only now do I feel like we have a great bond, she is forgiving and very patient with me and likewise me with her.

She has been a massive learning curve for me, but the best decision I ever made. We only ride a couple of times a week 1 schooling session and 1 hack in company but we spend a lot of time doing groundwork or we walk down the lane for a graze and to look at the cars and sometimes have a walk around the roads if we are feeling brave. She will be 5 in December so hoping next spring we will be upping her ridden work and I can't wait to see how she gets on.
 
I'd save yourself the money, trouble and heartache and buy a 4/5 year old in a few years' time. In the mean time, enjoy your lessons and either carry on with your share or keep an eye out for a more suitable one.
 
I had very very little experience with youngsters, I went out and got a 2 yo rescue cob, rescued from a quarry, gelded and passported and then got him from the people who rescued him for less than £200. best thing I have ever done, he will make 15hh approx. he is so quiet and calm and loving, he has trust issues with other people but we are working on it and he gets better every day. I have a 2 6 year olds and he is foot perfect around them.
He is perfect to catch, load, groom, bath, lead, tie up, and when I got him he hadn't done any of that before, and this is all in 4 months, honestly it is worth it :)
 
I suppose it depends on what age you are looking for. Foals/yearling/2year olds need turning out with other youngsters and an older one to keep them in check. So if you have the facilities to do this, then it can be a very rewarding experience. If you are looking for a 3 year old, unbacked 4 year old, then be honest with yourself about how brave you are, or whether you have the money to pay a pro when you need help. Its risky buying youngsters as you never know how they may turn out under saddle. You may love them on the ground, but they could be completely different to ride.

I bought a lovely 4 yo ID mare that was just backed, very sweet temperament. Loved her the minute I sat on her, its been pretty much plain sailing with her. I have had a pro on her a couple of times, just to get her over her issue with water( which I probably created !) Other than that ive done pretty much everything myself. Including a few shows, farm rides, and even horse camp.
 
annagain said:
I'd save yourself the money, trouble and heartache and buy a 4/5 year old in a few years' time. In the mean time, enjoy your lessons and either carry on with your share or keep an eye out for a more suitable one.
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If you want to avoid money, trouble and heartache probably best to avoid horses altogether!!

In terms of cost, you can get a lot more horse for your money if you do all the work yourself. I have bought really lovely youngsters from good breeders/producers at a fraction of their value once backed. One person's 'trouble' is another person's hobby. I absolutely love the early years handling. And my kids could get involved too. As for heartache, I have personally always found bringing on my own youngsters very rewarding.

OP you sound a little like me - I sold my amazing cob when I was heavily pregnant with twins. It was a complicated pregnancy and I was on bedrest. My horse was on loan and loaner wanted to buy or return. I sold and have always regretted it but at the time could not have him back. I was not that bothered about riding but I missed being around horses so I bought a yearling shetland pony when my twins were 2 1/2. They adored her and we had wonderful fun together. I backed the pony at 4 and she became my daughters' LR/FR. She was never any trouble, cost virtually nothing and brought my heart joy! So it can work. On the other hand it might not, but all horse's are unpredictable and things can always go wrong. But a basically nice temperament and a solid foundation gives you a pretty good chance of having a lovely, reliable horse ime.
 
Ive just bought a cob yearling filly, shes the sweetest thing, so calm and good natured. She lives out with our other two ponies, one 8 and one 16. She will be my future ride all being well as the other two are my daughters. Shes good to lead,catch and tie up. We're working on her legs and feet as shes a bit unsure but we've made progress. I work quite a bit and have two teenagers but still have quite a bit of time to work with her and I'm excited about our future together. Unfortunately I'm the type of person who gets attached very easily so i can't see her going anywhere soon. We're trying to loan the 8 yr old as hes outgrown but its not an easy task .
Good luck with whatever you decide to do op at the end of the day only you know if you can meet the needs of your family and a young cob xx
 
Thanks so much for all your replies- lots of interesting and conflicting views and lots for me to think about. I'm in no rush and to be honest if I count find a green but sensible 5/6/7 year old I'd be happy but I realise how lucky I was finding my last horse and have seen as many friends buy horses that other people had either physically or mentally damaged and watched them struggle to undo that or accept they'd never achieve their goals that I thought a youngster might be a better option.

Keeping my options open and will just plug away with regular lessons over the winter :)
 
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